Good Carb....Bad Carb

Good Carbs vs. Bad Carbs Thread.

Take #8352. Lights. Camera. Action.

http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
"Take Home Messages

* For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
* For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter."

So, this site thinks fiber does't matter at all?

Unless you've got poop problems - no, fibre doesn't matter that much. Besides most people consume more than they actually need anyway!

Fiber does more than solve poop problems, but that kind of seems like your saying fiber doesn't matter unless you aren't getting enough.

Are you talking soluble fibre or insoluble fibre?

I was just talking fiber in general. Both are good for you.

Soluble fibre is good for you and for your stomach and gut flora. I would question how great or needed insoluble fibre is?

Grains contain soluble fiber.

Yes but mainly insoluble fibre.

Many vegetables contain more insoluble than soluble. But again, both are good for you.

Is there a way to differentiate between good and bad carbs in the food diary?

I am trying this "low carb" thing on my doctors advice....and I like it so far...but I sometimes go over on carbs when eating low carb approved foods, so I am assuming they are good carbs....right?

Depends on what it is ... if it's all fruit and veggies I wouldn't sweat it... I go over my carbs on the daily but they all come from fruit and veggies and nothing else.

This precisely. Not other discussion, bro-science or otherwise, is necessary.

Your diet should look like this carb-wise:
Most carbs: veggies
Some carbs: fruits
Sparingly: grains and starches

In your opinion.

Pretty sure that 99% of every reply on this entire forum is someone or other's opinion. Or contains a link to someone's opinion. Just like it appears that your comment is suggesting that it is your opinion that my opinion isn't valid. Unless you are an expert of some kind...:huh:

And we all know what they say about opinions...

That aside, I think that if we are considering the OP's question which was about lowering carbohydrate intake, we don't need to go off on a discussion of every aspect under the sun of low-carbing, insulin resistance, or the good-carb/bad-carb argument. Some things, though good information, are irrelevant to the posed question.

But obviously that is just an opinion.

Actually, the OP was interested in differentiating between good carbs and bad carbs so I'm not sure why there wouldn't be a good carb/bad carb discussion.

My opinion, as you correctly identified it, was based upon the post I quoted, indicating that veggies and fruit are what OP should be concerned with. I was just saying that it isn't necessary to get mired in the discussion. The quick and dirty is that what are considered "good carbs" are primarily: veggies and fruits. And a little grains. I was opting for the quick answer to what OP wanted to know. I apologize if I was not clear.

Who doesn't consider whole grains are good carbs? I'm talking medical or nutrition experts here, not just random personal opinions.

Beats me. I didn't say it.

Dr. William David and Dr. David Perlmutter think grain is bad. And it certainly is to those with gluten sensitivity and Celiac. I never said grains weren't considered good carbs.

No, but saying that they should be eaten "sparingly" insinuates that they are bad. Same with fruit being number 2.

My argument would then be, why not prioritize veggies ahead of grains, given that veggies tend, IMO, more vitamin/mineral dense? Try to get those veggies in, because they are important, and then fill the rest with grains? Is there anything wrong with that reasoning, if, as the OP is, trying to keep the carbs down?

Yes, because it is wrong. Grains have a ton of vitamins and minerals, just as veggies/fruit.

I think you'll find that grain pales in comparison on a calorie for calorie basis, not really close at all, at least from my research.

If you throw in the qualifier of calorie for calorie basis, then yes, there are some differences. That wasn't really part of the discussion though.

OP: Why did your doctor recommend low carb? Because of diabetes? Insulin resistance?

If yes, the carbs you need to avoid are simple carbohydrates… i.e. cake, cookies, candy, ice cream, cheesecake, chips, juice, soda. Stick to complex carbs only… i.e. brown rice, sweet potatoes and potatoes (in moderation), non-starchy veggies, fruits, (preferably berries), quinoa.

Remember:

-Always pair carbs with a protein and fat. It helps stabilize blood sugar and prevent spikes/crashes.
-Eat every 3-4 hours.
-Eat between 15-30 grams of carbs per meal and no more than 15 grams of carbs per snack.

Not nitpicking, but wouldn't potato chips be a complex carb since they are..well, potatoes? Otherwise, good list. And perhaps we should elaborate on what the non-starchy vegetables are, since really if the OP has a medical reason to monitor/limit carbs, the colorful vegetables would be the ones to build the plant part of the diet around.

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/making-healthy-food-choices/non-starchy-vegetables.html#sthash.YValpLvo.dpuf

The following is a list of common non-starchy vegetables: Amaranth or Chinese spinach Artichoke Artichoke hearts Asparagus Baby corn Bamboo shoots Beans (green, wax, Italian) Bean sprouts Beets Brussels sprouts Broccoli Cabbage (green, bok choy, Chinese) Carrots Cauliflower Celery Chayote Coleslaw (packaged, no dressing) Cucumber Daikon Eggplant Greens (collard, kale, mustard, turnip) Hearts of palm Jicama Kohlrabi Leeks Mushrooms Okra Onions Pea pods Peppers Radishes Rutabaga Salad greens (chicory, endive, escarole, lettuce, romaine, spinach, arugula, radicchio, watercress) Sprouts Squash (cushaw, summer, crookneck, spaghetti, zucchini) Sugar snap peas Swiss chard Tomato Turnips Water chestnuts Yard-long beans - See more at:

And aren't fruits simple carbs?

Carbs are carbs. They are not bad or good.
The body processes all carbs the same way.

And yet some cause a significant rise in blood sugar, and some don't. Some are nutrient dense, some are not.
Some have lots of good fiber, some do not.
Call em good and bad, whatever you'd like, there's GOOD reason to eat more of some and less of some.

I think the blood sugar thing, especially when people focus on GI, and not actual experiences, is overrated, especially for healthy people...

But let's be honest...a lot of people here on MFP (myself included) are not that healthy. I am better than I was 40 pounds ago, but I am still obese and at risk for all sorts of health issues until I lose more weight. Higher fiber and lower GI carbs will help me more on this journey than empty, high GI carbs. But I still eat some of the "bad" stuff, because it tastes good and who wants to live without ice cream? :bigsmile:

I see no reason to assume that people aren't healthy.

I experimented, and found that I have no negative effects re blood sugar (no cravings, no up and down, no crashing) from eating carbs unless I eat highly refined carbs (little fiber) on their own, without fat or protein. So I don't. My old breakfast of a bagel didn't work for me, eating a sweet in the middle of the day is something I do rarely and only if it's really worth it (occasionally my office brings in cannolis that definitely are), etc. But eating some potatoes with dinner or even ice cream immediately after has no blood sugar effects that are perceptible at all for me. And yet I keep being told by people that if I eat those things, or even fruit, that my blood sugar will spike and crash and I'll have cravings or feel bad, etc. I don't. Probably most people don't.

There are other reasons to cut down on refined carbs, as I stated in my post (not on fruit, and the absurdity of the GI thing is that it's consistently used to warn against fruit and potatoes, IMO--potatoes being something that are rarely eaten on their own, fruit having lots of fiber, both being reasonably nutritious), but I don't think the GI thing is it, again unless you have insulin issues that mean it is (and even there I think load is what matters and why fruit is less of a problem than some would claim).

Lots of great info here!

What can you get from grain that you cannot get from healthier alternative sources like fruit and veg for example?

If he's exercising a lot (let's say going on crazy long bike rides), calories. Also, as others have noted, fiber. I eat lots of fruits and especially vegetables, and yet my fiber numbers tend to be below the recommended when I don't eat whole grains or legumes. (I don't care about this much and think even whole grains are often overrated nutritionally for their value, but this is because I have a more limited calorie allowance and find grains a pretty dull source of calories compared to plenty of alternatives, including fruits and vegetables and potatoes/sweet potatoes. I should eat more legumes, though. If I were worried about adequate calories/energy, whole grains would be an excellent source and I'd probably eat more.)

Who doesn't consider whole grains are good carbs? I'm talking medical or nutrition experts here, not just random personal opinions.

William Davis, MD (author, "Wheat Belly"); David Perlmutter, MD (author: "Grain Brain"); Gary Taubes ("Good Calories, Bad Calories" and "Why We Get Fat, and What to Do About It")

^^^ all excellent reads.

Are these books in the fantasy section?

To the OP, my condolences on your thread getting hijacked by all the wingnuts. Probably safe to assume if you are following your doctor's advice to ask them the question as every arm chair dietician is going to chime in with their theory and various crackpot theories dejour.

OP: Why did your doctor recommend low carb? Because of diabetes? Insulin resistance?

If yes, the carbs you need to avoid are simple carbohydrates… i.e. cake, cookies, candy, ice cream, cheesecake, chips, juice, soda. Stick to complex carbs only… i.e. brown rice, sweet potatoes and potatoes (in moderation), non-starchy veggies, fruits, (preferably berries), quinoa.

Remember:

-Always pair carbs with a protein and fat. It helps stabilize blood sugar and prevent spikes/crashes.
-Eat every 3-4 hours.
-Eat between 15-30 grams of carbs per meal and no more than 15 grams of carbs per snack.

Not nitpicking, but wouldn't potato chips be a complex carb since they are..well, potatoes?

I was thinking the same. Also, again, fruit is a simple carb.