Giving up sugar and white flour forever.

I'll be the first to admit that I am generally skeptical of most bandwagons, but then will jump on my own for no other reason than to just see if I like it, or if it works for me.
But on this I'm lost. And I'm not just trying to be an *kitten*, but here goes......

Why give up white sugar but not brown, honey, maple, or whatever else. Why does the color matter?

The same for white flour? I mean, I can sorta get the whole not wanting bleached flour, but unbleached flour is white flour right? Or not? Whole grain for the added fiber, and maybe a slower blood sugar spike? I understand that. But then wouldn't you want to give up fresh corn, rice, and corn starch thickened sauces? What about potatoes? Are white potatoes better than white flour? Why is white flour so bad but other flours ok?

Unless you have celiac disease of, course, but you're otherwise fairly healthy, yes?

I guess I don't understand why, and why forever?

Im on day 8 of a clean diet, no sugar besides what is in fruit, using a small amount of honey when sugar is needed. And only Whole wheat, nothing out of a box with more than 5 ingrediants. I feel pretty good. I got my tips and an outline from the web site 100daysof real food. Amazing articles and food ideas.

Pssst. Honey is sugar.

We really have to stop vilifying foods. No food is inherently good or bad. Period. Some foods are more healthful than others. It's not a dichotomy, it's a spectrum.

Whole grain flours are certainly more healthful than white flours, but there are probably specific grains which are more healthful than whole wheat. And there are "white whole wheat" flours nowadays. And there's plenty of foods made from white flour which are enriched with extra vitamins.

And sugar? An argument could be made that honey is more healthful than sugar, because of the other stuff it contains, but it contains those other elements in such minuscule amounts that it's debatable if they actually do anything. Other than that, sugar really is sugar. Is an artificial sweetener better? Some studies say yes, some say no. Is stevia better? Some studies say yes, some say no. If you want a more natural, less process sugar, why not use turbinado or raw sugar cane juice or something like that? Or you could go really hippy and just sweeten everything with dried figs. *shudder*

So, let me repeat: It's not a dichotomy. It is not a "good" or "bad" food situation. It's a spectrum, and there's always something healthier you could be eating. A better idea than cutting foods out is to eat a wide variety to ensure that you're getting all the micronutrients you need.

I'll be the first to admit that I am generally skeptical of most bandwagons, but then will jump on my own for no other reason than to just see if I like it, or if it works for me.
But on this I'm lost. And I'm not just trying to be an *kitten*, but here goes......

Why give up white sugar but not brown, honey, maple, or whatever else. Why does the color matter?

The same for white flour? I mean, I can sorta get the whole not wanting bleached flour, but unbleached flour is white flour right? Or not? Whole grain for the added fiber, and maybe a slower blood sugar spike? I understand that. But then wouldn't you want to give up fresh corn, rice, and corn starch thickened sauces? What about potatoes? Are white potatoes better than white flour? Why is white flour so bad but other flours ok?

Unless you have celiac disease of, course, but you're otherwise fairly healthy, yes?

I guess I don't understand why, and why forever?

Simple, the reasoning is that if something is bad in larger quantities for some people, then none would be ideal for everyone.......the paleo diet is based on this screwed up philosophy for example.

That "bandwagon" I'm currently on is the ketogenic diet. I've read several favorable studies,(well, I didn't read all of each study, they're just to dry, and the plot is sooooo slow) and a very few studies that were kind of negative. But anyway..... The whole "Eat a bare minimum of carbs, and get your calories from fat" thing makes some sense to me. And I would never give up pizza with real crust, or the occasional plate (or 3) of spaghetti and meatballs. It seams to me that if you're going to give up white sugar and flour, but continuing to eat other sugar and other carbs, you're restricting your diet with no gain in health.

So I guess I'm even more extremist (except on my occasional carb days), I don't eat any grain , and any sugar I eat comes from cured meat and green leafy veggies.

I guess, why exclude one carb type but not the others?

I'm gluten intolerant so it's not a big deal to give up white flour for me because I know how it makes me feel. I'm going to be limiting sugar as well starting October 1st. I'll have desserts at parties and friend's houses in moderation but I know my limits and can't have them in the house. I once went a whole year without dessert and I felt amazing after I got over the withdrawal.

If it makes you feel better to give them up, go for it. Everybody's body works differently.

It is not extreme, it is just white sugar and white flour are so readily available today. Giving up those two is not much different than the diet in America and Europe around 1800. Back then, it was unusual to have white sugar and bleached flour.

The thing is, I don't live in 1800. I live now. I go to people's birthday parties; I eat with friends in restaurants; I invite people to dinner. I enjoy a good pie, some fresh bread, a well-prepared pasta dish. Living without sugar or white flour would severely limit my personal enjoyment of food and make social situations difficult. Especially since I don't see any compelling evidence that giving up these things is going to make me healthier.

I'll be the first to admit that I am generally skeptical of most bandwagons, but then will jump on my own for no other reason than to just see if I like it, or if it works for me.
But on this I'm lost. And I'm not just trying to be an *kitten*, but here goes......

Why give up white sugar but not brown, honey, maple, or whatever else. Why does the color matter?

The same for white flour? I mean, I can sorta get the whole not wanting bleached flour, but unbleached flour is white flour right? Or not? Whole grain for the added fiber, and maybe a slower blood sugar spike? I understand that. But then wouldn't you want to give up fresh corn, rice, and corn starch thickened sauces? What about potatoes? Are white potatoes better than white flour? Why is white flour so bad but other flours ok?

Unless you have celiac disease of, course, but you're otherwise fairly healthy, yes?

I guess I don't understand why, and why forever?

Simple, the reasoning is that if something is bad in larger quantities for some people, then none would be ideal for everyone.......the paleo diet is based on this screwed up philosophy for example.

That "bandwagon" I'm currently on is the ketogenic diet. I've read several favorable studies,(well, I didn't read all of each study, they're just to dry, and the plot is sooooo slow) and a very few studies that were kind of negative. But anyway..... The whole "Eat a bare minimum of carbs, and get your calories from fat" thing makes some sense to me. And I would never give up pizza with real crust, or the occasional plate (or 3) of spaghetti and meatballs. It seams to me that if you're going to give up white sugar and flour, but continuing to eat other sugar and other carbs, you're restricting your diet with no gain in health.

So I guess I'm even more extremist (except on my occasional carb days), I don't eat any grain , and any sugar I eat comes from cured meat and green leafy veggies.

I guess, why exclude one carb type but not the others?

There's plenty of science to confirm that increasing calories from highly refined grains and sugar in lieu of protein and fat have deleterious effects on health markers, no doubt about it. Still not a reason to completely sustain from either when consumed in moderate amounts. The confounder that messes with peoples heads is that a diet that is higher in protein and fat is also more satiating and we eat less food overall which leads to weight loss and this is confirmed in many studies when compared to a high carb diet....a low fat diet in disguise. Your ketogenic diet is probably one one of the more extreme low carb diets but if it works for you, then that's fine. There's at least the CKD and the TKD so you don't resort to pulling all your hair out from restriction. Personally I'm on a reduced carb diet in the sense that it doesn't get in the way of protein and fat preferences, and to help me reduce my desire to munch down on sugary carbs, which I've been known to do in the past quite a bit, now very rarely. Personally I don't see any advantage going any lower in carbs, simply because there is no increased satiety or health benefit and I like pizza and spaghetti as well.

As a vegan for 15 years on the most un extreme diet I can think of words almost fail me and I'm probably going to regret replying too this. My question is what's wrong with white flour and sugar which can be a part of any blanced diet

Agreed. I've been vegan for 7 months and I don't understand how it's "extreme..." Are fruits/veggies/grains extreme foods? Anyway, do you just mean added, processed sugar? Because that would be worth cutting out. But natural sugar isn't bad for you... And making the switch to whole grains is a good idea, but you can still incorporate white flour every now and then, no need to go totally extreme and cut it out forever...

I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.

As a vegan for 15 years on the most un extreme diet I can think of words almost fail me and I'm probably going to regret replying too this. My question is what's wrong with white flour and sugar which can be a part of any blanced diet

Agreed. I've been vegan for 7 months and I don't understand how it's "extreme..." Are fruits/veggies/grains extreme foods? Anyway, do you just mean added, processed sugar? Because that would be worth cutting out. But natural sugar isn't bad for you... And making the switch to whole grains is a good idea, but you can still incorporate white flour every now and then, no need to go totally extreme and cut it out forever...

Processed sugar is the same as sugar in fruits. The only added benefit of fruits is vitamins, minerals and fiber. Which, is well worth investing in over say candy or ice cream but it doesn't mean you have to cut it out or that cutting it out makes you "healthier"

Healthy is in the context of an entire diet, not individual foods, so barring medical conditions or those that have had adherence issues with a food, there's no need to cut them out ( ideally, working towards moderation unless one means to do this forever).