Giving up sugar and white flour forever.
Replies
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That "bandwagon" I'm currently on is the ketogenic diet. I've read several favorable studies,(well, I didn't read all of each study, they're just to dry, and the plot is sooooo slow) and a very few studies that were kind of negative. But anyway..... The whole "Eat a bare minimum of carbs, and get your calories from fat" thing makes some sense to me. And I would never give up pizza with real crust, or the occasional plate (or 3) of spaghetti and meatballs. It seams to me that if you're going to give up white sugar and flour, but continuing to eat other sugar and other carbs, you're restricting your diet with no gain in health.
Simple, the reasoning is that if something is bad in larger quantities for some people, then none would be ideal for everyone.......the paleo diet is based on this screwed up philosophy for example.I'll be the first to admit that I am generally skeptical of most bandwagons, but then will jump on my own for no other reason than to just see if I like it, or if it works for me.
But on this I'm lost. And I'm not just trying to be an *kitten*, but here goes......
Why give up white sugar but not brown, honey, maple, or whatever else. Why does the color matter?
The same for white flour? I mean, I can sorta get the whole not wanting bleached flour, but unbleached flour is white flour right? Or not? Whole grain for the added fiber, and maybe a slower blood sugar spike? I understand that. But then wouldn't you want to give up fresh corn, rice, and corn starch thickened sauces? What about potatoes? Are white potatoes better than white flour? Why is white flour so bad but other flours ok?
Unless you have celiac disease of, course, but you're otherwise fairly healthy, yes?
I guess I don't understand why, and why forever?
So I guess I'm even more extremist (except on my occasional carb days), I don't eat any grain , and any sugar I eat comes from cured meat and green leafy veggies.
I guess, why exclude one carb type but not the others?0 -
The best way to eat better and healthier without getting shredded is to quietly do it on your own and never, ever post it on MFP. The "Food and Nutrition" forum is particularly snarky and mean-spirited. And filled with amazing experts and gif masters.0
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I'm gluten intolerant so it's not a big deal to give up white flour for me because I know how it makes me feel. I'm going to be limiting sugar as well starting October 1st. I'll have desserts at parties and friend's houses in moderation but I know my limits and can't have them in the house. I once went a whole year without dessert and I felt amazing after I got over the withdrawal.
If it makes you feel better to give them up, go for it. Everybody's body works differently.0 -
I know I lack self-control, and I know discipline is like a muscle...the more you use it the stronger it gets. Why must this be so difficult? I don't know what else to do.
this is exactly the thing.
Going cold turkey on things doesn't build the 'NO' discipline muscle.
Work on saying NO to one small thing- rather than two whole entire groups of food products.0 -
It is not extreme, it is just white sugar and white flour are so readily available today. Giving up those two is not much different than the diet in America and Europe around 1800. Back then, it was unusual to have white sugar and bleached flour.
The thing is, I don't live in 1800. I live now. I go to people's birthday parties; I eat with friends in restaurants; I invite people to dinner. I enjoy a good pie, some fresh bread, a well-prepared pasta dish. Living without sugar or white flour would severely limit my personal enjoyment of food and make social situations difficult. Especially since I don't see any compelling evidence that giving up these things is going to make me healthier.0 -
The thing is, I don't live in 1800. I live now.
thank the sweet baby jesus too- could you imagine? no showers- and no internet- and having to actually go HUNT for your food?
I mean I'm all about having fun and going adventuring- but I really like my warm bed- indoor plumbing and my ipod. Seriously. WHy must everything be "better back then"
people died a lot back then from crappy living conditions and rotted meat- it's not better because they didn't have Taco Bell- it's just older- with no internet.0 -
There's plenty of science to confirm that increasing calories from highly refined grains and sugar in lieu of protein and fat have deleterious effects on health markers, no doubt about it. Still not a reason to completely sustain from either when consumed in moderate amounts. The confounder that messes with peoples heads is that a diet that is higher in protein and fat is also more satiating and we eat less food overall which leads to weight loss and this is confirmed in many studies when compared to a high carb diet....a low fat diet in disguise. Your ketogenic diet is probably one one of the more extreme low carb diets but if it works for you, then that's fine. There's at least the CKD and the TKD so you don't resort to pulling all your hair out from restriction. Personally I'm on a reduced carb diet in the sense that it doesn't get in the way of protein and fat preferences, and to help me reduce my desire to munch down on sugary carbs, which I've been known to do in the past quite a bit, now very rarely. Personally I don't see any advantage going any lower in carbs, simply because there is no increased satiety or health benefit and I like pizza and spaghetti as well.
That "bandwagon" I'm currently on is the ketogenic diet. I've read several favorable studies,(well, I didn't read all of each study, they're just to dry, and the plot is sooooo slow) and a very few studies that were kind of negative. But anyway..... The whole "Eat a bare minimum of carbs, and get your calories from fat" thing makes some sense to me. And I would never give up pizza with real crust, or the occasional plate (or 3) of spaghetti and meatballs. It seams to me that if you're going to give up white sugar and flour, but continuing to eat other sugar and other carbs, you're restricting your diet with no gain in health.
Simple, the reasoning is that if something is bad in larger quantities for some people, then none would be ideal for everyone.......the paleo diet is based on this screwed up philosophy for example.I'll be the first to admit that I am generally skeptical of most bandwagons, but then will jump on my own for no other reason than to just see if I like it, or if it works for me.
But on this I'm lost. And I'm not just trying to be an *kitten*, but here goes......
Why give up white sugar but not brown, honey, maple, or whatever else. Why does the color matter?
The same for white flour? I mean, I can sorta get the whole not wanting bleached flour, but unbleached flour is white flour right? Or not? Whole grain for the added fiber, and maybe a slower blood sugar spike? I understand that. But then wouldn't you want to give up fresh corn, rice, and corn starch thickened sauces? What about potatoes? Are white potatoes better than white flour? Why is white flour so bad but other flours ok?
Unless you have celiac disease of, course, but you're otherwise fairly healthy, yes?
I guess I don't understand why, and why forever?
So I guess I'm even more extremist (except on my occasional carb days), I don't eat any grain , and any sugar I eat comes from cured meat and green leafy veggies.
I guess, why exclude one carb type but not the others?0 -
The thing is, I don't live in 1800. I live now.
thank the sweet baby jesus too- could you imagine? no showers- and no internet- and having to actually go HUNT for your food?
I mean I'm all about having fun and going adventuring- but I really like my warm bed- indoor plumbing and my ipod. Seriously. WHy must everything be "better back then"
people died a lot back then from crappy living conditions and rotted meat- it's not better because they didn't have Taco Bell- it's just older- with no internet.
Exactly. It wasn't better "back then." No refrigeration. Lots of food-borne illnesses and food contaminated with all sorts of things before we had any food regulations. The life expectancy in 1800? About 40.
I don't eat a lot of processed food and am conscious of consuming plenty of veggies, fruit, lean meat, dairy, whole grain. But dark chocolate, a good glass of wine, professional quality pastry on special occasions. . . why would I ever want to give up those things unless I had a diagnosed food intolerance?0 -
As a vegan for 15 years on the most un extreme diet I can think of words almost fail me and I'm probably going to regret replying too this. My question is what's wrong with white flour and sugar which can be a part of any blanced diet
Agreed. I've been vegan for 7 months and I don't understand how it's "extreme..." Are fruits/veggies/grains extreme foods? Anyway, do you just mean added, processed sugar? Because that would be worth cutting out. But natural sugar isn't bad for you... And making the switch to whole grains is a good idea, but you can still incorporate white flour every now and then, no need to go totally extreme and cut it out forever...0 -
Forever. That's a mighty long time. But I'm here to tell you there's something else... :smokin:
The Afterworld.
I sure hope that old lady's wrong...about death not being the end of it.0 -
I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.0
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+1Forever. That's a mighty long time. But I'm here to tell you there's something else... :smokin:
The Afterworld.
I sure hope that old lady's wrong...about death not being the end of it.
Just another calorie in calorie out thing.0 -
As a vegan for 15 years on the most un extreme diet I can think of words almost fail me and I'm probably going to regret replying too this. My question is what's wrong with white flour and sugar which can be a part of any blanced diet
Agreed. I've been vegan for 7 months and I don't understand how it's "extreme..." Are fruits/veggies/grains extreme foods? Anyway, do you just mean added, processed sugar? Because that would be worth cutting out. But natural sugar isn't bad for you... And making the switch to whole grains is a good idea, but you can still incorporate white flour every now and then, no need to go totally extreme and cut it out forever...
Processed sugar is the same as sugar in fruits. The only added benefit of fruits is vitamins, minerals and fiber. Which, is well worth investing in over say candy or ice cream but it doesn't mean you have to cut it out or that cutting it out makes you "healthier"
Healthy is in the context of an entire diet, not individual foods, so barring medical conditions or those that have had adherence issues with a food, there's no need to cut them out ( ideally, working towards moderation unless one means to do this forever).0 -
Wow, some of these responses make it sound like it's the hardest thing ever, along with "homemade everything"... Honestly, I did it about a year ago (started 3 years ago, but it took a while) and it was the best decision I ever made. I almost everything from scratch (it's actually quite easy...) read every single label, etc. The less ingredients in something and the simpler it is, then the better. And honestly, I've never felt better - my skin cleared up, I stopped getting migraines, I sleep better, and I have way more energy and less anxiety. And when I do "cheat" (I don't even call it that...) I regret it the next morning when I wake up with a migraine. Oh, and I lost those stubborn last 10 pounds and then some by giving up white sugar/flour.
If I want something sweet then I have fruit. If I want a treat, then I bake with maple syrup, but even that is only for special occasions... it can be done and once you get the hang of it, you'll never look back.
Also, why is veganism considered extreme?
Is there a difference between sugar and maple syrup? Or honey? I am asking honestly.0 -
Hate to break the news to you but all flour including the dreaded tipo 00 are complex carbs.I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.0 -
I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.
Fruit is a simple carb. Is it empty?0 -
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Right. Well that cleared it right up then.I've never seen more non- sense in my life. Is this for real? Everyone thinks this is bad but that is good. Lol. Someone should pick up some science books rather than rely on what things "seem like" is better. Geez. The crazy in here is, well, too much to deal with.0 -
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It's easy for me because I do all my own cooking and baking. Where a recipe says white flour, I use wholemeal. If it needs a sweetener, I use stevia or xylotol. If I'm out and need a food fix, I either wait until I get home or eat the protein bar I brought along just in case.0
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But you got involved to say how stupid it was.
Right. Well that cleared it right up then.I've never seen more non- sense in my life. Is this for real? Everyone thinks this is bad but that is good. Lol. Someone should pick up some science books rather than rely on what things "seem like" is better. Geez. The crazy in here is, well, too much to deal with.
I don't want to get too involved in this. You know what they say about the abyss.
Then to tell us you don't want to get involved.
Crap. I got trolled.0 -
Good luck you can do it, the hardest part will be overcoming the mentality of it. Try it for 90 days and see how it feels.0
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If you're serious about doing it, you need to really understand why sugar and white flour are bad, and NONE of the things you hear in the media or this forum really explain it. I am a huge fan of reading like crazy about new things, but when it comes to heading down a path to eat in a way that requires you to give up family and social traditions like Grandma's apple pie and birthday cake, and on a path that will be regularly attacked by skinny people who have never had to diet, and by scientists who have been fooled by "science", you really should invest the time to learn about why dropping sugar and processed carbs is healthier than all the advice you're getting.
I have been following a low carb/paleo-ish, diet for 10 weeks (nowhere near forever) and I feel better than I ever have. Not all people are equally sensitive to carbs, but if you are, the change in how you feel when you ditch them for a few weeks will be dramatic. Even if you're not super carb sensitive, Taubes' book (below) explains what the science suggests sugar and processed carbs does to all of us. If it's going to be a lifestyle, there are some other GREAT books worth reading.
1. I started with "New Atkins for a New You" over a year ago. It's the how-to on eating healthily without sugar and processed carbs. Light on theory, but heavy on practical rules to follow to improve your health. A fast, easy read that you can jump in and out of, cover in post-its, and refer to as you progress on the diet.
2. A few months ago after I made the switch more officially, I read "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living." I knew enough about how low-carb eating makes me feel to know I believe it's healthy, but I wanted to understand why it wouldn't jeopardize my long-distance running goals. Maybe 100 pages long, but not critical unless you're trying to run 13 miles or more.
3. Intrigued by the taste of these author's work (Dr.'s Phinney and Volek wrote both books above) I decided to see if there was new information in their "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living." This one shows you the research that supports this dietary shift, and counters all the common things people tell you makes it unhealthy. It's longer and more technical than the other two, but lots of good information. They follow a low-carb diet but all the peleo theory is mixed in because they use information about other cultural groups and their diets to help support their recommendations.
4. Phinney and Volek refer to "Good Calories, Bad Calories" throughout the book above, and even though I figured it would be repetitive of all the other things I'd been reading, I read enough reviews on Amazon that I decided to go ahead and start reading it. It BLEW. MY. MIND. Gary Taubes tears apart all of the things we absolutely believe in our society about what is healthy for us, how to prevent heart disease, why people get fat (and why they don't), and also helps you understand how good, honest scientists, and politicians, got caught in traps that have lead to bad public health recommendations. You'll never see another bit of advice in Women's Health or Yahoo News, or a health article in a newspaper or magazine, the same way again after reading this book.
I'm still reading it, actually, because its 650 pages, and by far the most detailed of all these books. I have also jumped around a bit because Taubes refers to future chapters at various points and I found myself wanting to read them early rather than waiting. To me, this is the book that really cements why it's important to eat this way, and why, even when it's unpopular, criticized, or downright demonized, and it's also a reminder to trust how a way of eating makes you FEEL, not what people say should work. Lastly, if you've struggled with all the common pitfalls of the yo-yo dieter and exercised yourself into oblivion only to end up feeling like a willpower-less loser who gained it all back, again and again, this book will explain why that happens, and why all those things you were told to do to lose weight were just plain wrong. You're not a loser. You were following the wrong recommendations, and your body didn't like it!
Also, if you go below 50 net carbs/day, listen to them when they tell you to add 1000 mg of sodium in the morning, and 1000 mg in the evening, on top of what's in your food. It makes a BIG difference!0 -
Good luck you can do it, the hardest part will be overcoming the mentality of it. Try it for 90 days and see how it feels.
+10 -
skinny people who have never had to diet
Wonder how/why they're skinny then
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Wow, some of these responses make it sound like it's the hardest thing ever, along with "homemade everything"... Honestly, I did it about a year ago (started 3 years ago, but it took a while) and it was the best decision I ever made. I almost everything from scratch (it's actually quite easy...) read every single label, etc. The less ingredients in something and the simpler it is, then the better. And honestly, I've never felt better - my skin cleared up, I stopped getting migraines, I sleep better, and I have way more energy and less anxiety. And when I do "cheat" (I don't even call it that...) I regret it the next morning when I wake up with a migraine. Oh, and I lost those stubborn last 10 pounds and then some by giving up white sugar/flour.
If I want something sweet then I have fruit. If I want a treat, then I bake with maple syrup, but even that is only for special occasions... it can be done and once you get the hang of it, you'll never look back.
Also, why is veganism considered extreme?
Is there a difference between sugar and maple syrup? Or honey? I am asking honestly.
Table sugar is sucrose. Maple syrup is mostly sucrose with tiny amounts of fructose and glucose. Honey is glucose and fructose. Corn Syrup is fructose and glucose.
Basically the difference is which sugars they are made up of on a molecular level. fructose and glucose (aka dextrose) are simple sugars or monosaccharides. Sucrose is a disaccharide and after eating it, it breaks down into fructose and glucose in our body (which is why it is best to give someone having a hypoglycemic episode fruit juice or glucose tablets, they enter the system faster than candy made from sucrose).
ETA: all natural sweeteners are processed with the exception of raw honey which you have to purchase directly from the beekeeper. The maple syrup processing is especially yummy to watch: this big vat of almost clear sap is boiled down to the delicious golden syrup we all know and love, then poured over pancakes cooked on an outdoor griddle and topped with fresh Wisconsin butter. BEST BREAKFAST EVER! (Yes I live in a sugaring region and there is a place in a state park that does this every spring, open to the public. We hike the trail that ends at the sugaring shack)0 -
Hate to break the news to you but all flour including the dreaded tipo 00 are complex carbs.I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.
Actually they are not. Once refined the properties which made them complex are removed and they act as a simple carb. I don't dread 00 flour, but I shouldn't use it because it spikes my blood sugar, so I don't. If it didn't, I would use it when making pizza because it makes a great crust. I'm not all or nothing, but I do know the difference between whole meal and refined and as a person heading toward diabetes I made the decision to cut out refined carbs.0 -
Forever?
Good luck with that.0 -
I call them simple carbs and complex carbs. The whites are simple, the browns are complex. Brown sugar is not complex. Brown rice is complex but acts like a simple carb, so there are some complications. I cannot eat simple carbs or rice because of dietary issues. There is life after the whites and if someone chooses to leave them alone it won't kill anyone. On the other hand, I love 00 flour for pizza crust, but now I use whole wheat. I didn't die. I made the most wonderful gnocchi, now I use sweet potato, not the same, but good. Italian whole wheat pasta doesn't taste like cardboard. My son, the chef, made a profound, educated professional food statement when I talked about my preference for simple carbs; they are yummy. Yes, they are. They are also empty. If you don't have to get rid of them, the occasional bit won't be the end of the world. The world also does not end without them.
Fruit is a simple carb. Is it empty?
Fruit has nutrients. There are fruits which are turn to glucose slowly and those that don't. I've had to learn the difference to keep blood sugar under control.0
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