The single biggest cause of male deaths...
Replies
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But you don't have to BS about the statistics to get peoples' attention.
Is that what he did? Lie for attention? Really.....
Who's really vying for attention here.... ?(taps foot and stares directly at you)0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
Just stop right there, ok? And I'm saying this with a smile.0 -
The timing of this post could not be more...strange. I just found out yesterday that a childhood friend ended his own life. I'm not sure if I'm going to the funeral or not, since it's 500 miles away.0
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It's amazing such an important issue gets so little airtime it seems....
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Exactly! Good post.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
You don't know that at all. They may have taken it very seriously.
People who are depressed often turn to drugs and alcohol as a means to self-medicate. Depression, however, is a very complex issue that often requires more help than a support group can offer.
Yeah, I replied to him before and I'm gonna reply to this. One of the people had over 20 years clean. One never really know what's going on in one's mind. Suicide sucks and, what's worse, I hear people say things like "I don't have the balls/courage, etc, to do that." People get everything so twisted, as if somehow it's noble and brave to kill yourself. I'm not saying it's cowardly either. It's just a permanent solution to a temporary problem, usually.
It's sad. Thank you OP for bringing this up. I'm right there with you, regardless of the others.0 -
The fact that people can argue over stats when the issue here is that people ARE KILLING THEMSELVES is disgusting. Whether the stats are off or not, you can take that up with the publisher of the article.
The fact that people (specifically men that we're talking about here) in the prime of their life feel the need to kill themselves is frightening and disturbing. Do they feel like they have no where to turn? Does it just get so overwhelming and the society they're in doesn't foster an open-help policy?
I know that I've been there before (girl, not guy) but it was similar. I felt alone (even though I wasn't) and when I talked to people who said that they wanted to listen and help, and tended to get "it's not that bad, just suck it up and deal with it". If it was that easy, I WOULD have.
But I couldn't. There was no 'sucking up' to be had. I was being swallowed alive and everything was just far too overwhelming. Which led to my developing an eating disorder in order to comfort and help numb what I was feeling. I thought about death. I thought about ending everything. Who wants to continue living when it's so hard and unimportant? Who wants to feel like, for some reason, they're unable to handle life when everyone else finds it just so simple?
My conclusion after all of this: It isn't simple. It's not simple for anyone, despite what's said. We all suffer inner turmoil, just some feel it more than others. I obviously didn't follow through, and I'm thankful. I'm stronger, I'm smarter, and I'm much more aware than I was. It does get better.
So the next time one of your friends says "I need to talk..." , just listen to them. Give them honest, heartfelt opinions if they ask for it. Please don't tell them to "man-up, suck it up, or deal with it".0 -
The fact that people can argue over stats when the issue here is that people ARE KILLING THEMSELVES is disgusting. Whether the stats are off or not, you can take that up with the publisher of the article.
The fact that people (specifically men that we're talking about here) in the prime of their life feel the need to kill themselves is frightening and disturbing. Do they feel like they have no where to turn? Does it just get so overwhelming and the society they're in doesn't foster an open-help policy?
I know that I've been there before (girl, not guy) but it was similar. I felt alone (even though I wasn't) and when I talked to people who said that they wanted to listen and help, and tended to get "it's not that bad, just suck it up and deal with it". If it was that easy, I WOULD have.
But I couldn't. There was no 'sucking up' to be had. I was being swallowed alive and everything was just far too overwhelming. Which led to my developing an eating disorder in order to comfort and help numb what I was feeling. I thought about death. I thought about ending everything. Who wants to continue living when it's so hard and unimportant? Who wants to feel like, for some reason, they're unable to handle life when everyone else finds it just so simple?
My conclusion after all of this: It isn't simple. It's not simple for anyone, despite what's said. We all suffer inner turmoil, just some feel it more than others. I obviously didn't follow through, and I'm thankful. I'm stronger, I'm smarter, and I'm much more aware than I was. It does get better.
So the next time one of your friends says "I need to talk..." , just listen to them. Give them honest, heartfelt opinions if they ask for it. Please don't tell them to "man-up, suck it up, or deal with it".
QFT!0 -
Thank you OP for making an effort to bring this topic to everyone's attention. It's a terrible loss of young men and devastating for the family and friends of those who can't go on anymore.0
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Has anyone asked why the suicide rate is so high?0
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SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP WHO CARES ABOUT THE AGE RANGE OR WHAT IS ALL LUMPED TOGETHER AS A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH.
The topic is about suicide and why so many males commit suicide. The number should be ZERO but it's not so its obviously a problem that needs to be discussed. Quit demanding that you be right and getting a topic off topic and then get it deleted and start talking about an actual issue!!!
ANYWAYS
Did you notice that when Robin Williams died suicide and depression were all over the news and people were writing a ton of articles about it. Now you see jack squat about suicide or depression stories because the media has moved on to other stuff? Which is sad, it should be talked about even if someone famous didn't just kill themselves.0 -
there is a completely rational answer resulting from a single word irrationality,
wife0 -
I am happy to revise the title of this thread (or ask a Mod to do so) to "one, if not the biggest cause of male deaths" if needs be and it draws people back to the underlying issue of why so many young men it seems are taking their own lives...
You don't need to do that. You started this thread with a charitable heart. Some people have nothing better to do than to detract from the issue.
Yeahbut .. "Noble lies" and misinformation detract from the issue too. Nobody is suggesting that it's not a serious issue. But you don't have to BS about the statistics to get peoples' attention. All that's going to do is cause people to dismiss the position that is supported by the noble lie.
I can say with certainty that he did not "BS" the statistics. IF this is the statistic the article gave he was simply stating the fact as he knew. Any data from ANY research can be skewed in the favor of whoever is conducting the research. Posting about being off on the age range DETRACTS from the issue..
I wasnt talking about the age range. Look at my previous post and the source. It's not "suicide" .. it's suicide, ODs, poisonings, and accidents all lumped together that become the leading cause ....
YOU did not specify that you were not talking about the age range...nor did you mention anything about causes being lumped together. If YOU re-read your original response it can easily be mistaken as you saying he is BSing about the age range/statistic.
I sure did, earlier in the thread.
The Noble Lie response was just a warning that disinformation, regardless of if it is positive or negative, can have negative impacts to the overall cause.
As long as there are people grieving over those that they have lost to suicide, I very seriously doubt that one menial statistic will ever detract from the cause regardless of its accuracy.
You don't have to worry about those peoples' commitment to the cause. It's the people who have NOT had to deal with it whose support you're trying to gain and keep, and bad data doesn't help.
Emotion has a greater impact than numbers.
The fact of the matter is that statisticians are never accurate. Two different statisticians can produce drastically different figures at any point in time. Generally, a margin of error is accounted for, but that margin of error can vary between studies. All statistics are meant to show is meaningfulness, which will always and forever be subjective.
If you show one group of people a statistic and another group of people a grieving mother, which do you honestly think will be more motivating?0 -
The fact that people can argue over stats when the issue here is that people ARE KILLING THEMSELVES is disgusting. Whether the stats are off or not, you can take that up with the publisher of the article.
The fact that people (specifically men that we're talking about here) in the prime of their life feel the need to kill themselves is frightening and disturbing. Do they feel like they have no where to turn? Does it just get so overwhelming and the society they're in doesn't foster an open-help policy?
I know that I've been there before (girl, not guy) but it was similar. I felt alone (even though I wasn't) and when I talked to people who said that they wanted to listen and help, and tended to get "it's not that bad, just suck it up and deal with it". If it was that easy, I WOULD have.
But I couldn't. There was no 'sucking up' to be had. I was being swallowed alive and everything was just far too overwhelming. Which led to my developing an eating disorder in order to comfort and help numb what I was feeling. I thought about death. I thought about ending everything. Who wants to continue living when it's so hard and unimportant? Who wants to feel like, for some reason, they're unable to handle life when everyone else finds it just so simple?
My conclusion after all of this: It isn't simple. It's not simple for anyone, despite what's said. We all suffer inner turmoil, just some feel it more than others. I obviously didn't follow through, and I'm thankful. I'm stronger, I'm smarter, and I'm much more aware than I was. It does get better.
So the next time one of your friends says "I need to talk..." , just listen to them. Give them honest, heartfelt opinions if they ask for it. Please don't tell them to "man-up, suck it up, or deal with it".
YES, 100 times yes. It's quite disgusting. It's almost crazy. What's wrong with people?0 -
BUMP!!!0
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there is a completely rational answer resulting from a single word irrationality,
wife
Wrong time to joke or maybe you are not.0 -
I am happy to revise the title of this thread (or ask a Mod to do so) to "one, if not the biggest cause of male deaths" if needs be and it draws people back to the underlying issue of why so many young men it seems are taking their own lives...
You don't need to do that. You started this thread with a charitable heart. Some people have nothing better to do than to detract from the issue.
As long as the issue is getting discussed I am not fussed
Do you feel a theory is that men just do not talk about real stuff at all? Feeling you know any men who talk to other men about feelings?
Unfortunately yes
that and my husbands father died when he was six. Left his mom with 5 kids and no immediate income. He became suicidally depressed. But it wasn't him who didn't want to talk. Any time he tried to talk about it his mom would tell him "You're not the only one who lost your dad. You have to be the man now." 6 years old, 10 years, 18. Answer never changed. He's obviously very scarred from this and was basically raised by his eldest sister. Attempted suicide multiple times and has delt with CPS (american co.).
I can tell he still struggles but has learned to deal with things internally. Just push them down and ignore them. I wish he would talk more about his dad, even just in general (not about his death). But idk if it would be good to prod since he is actually very put together, level headed and positive about life.
Idk what helped him, since he won't talk about it. But I definitely know what hurt him.
Very important issue. Men and women and children.0 -
It's amazing such an important issue gets so little airtime it seems....
Agreed. It is very sad. We as a society have attached a stigma to mental illness. The stigma surrounding suicide discourages individuals suffering to discuss their suicidal thoughts. This is the biggest problem. The people who need help don't seek it because they don't want to be perceived as weak, selfish, and lacking in faith. Another problem is that most people don't understand suicide. They don't understand how someone could do that to their family, etc. We need to educate and erase the stigma of the word suicide. Education often leads to better understanding and greater willingness to seek treatment.0 -
According to the WHO, someone commits suicide every 40 seconds in the world.
" Globally, suicides account for 50% of all violent deaths in men and 71% in women. With regard to age, suicide rates are highest in persons aged 70 years or over for both men and women in almost all regions of the world. In some countries, suicide rates are highest among the young, and globally suicide is the second leading cause of death in 15−29-year-olds."
Although heart disease, cancer and diabetes are often at the forefront of our disease prevention efforts, we should all be equally aware of our own mental health, and help others who may be suffering from depression, bipolar, schizophrenia and substance abuse -- these are all diseases that increase the likelihood of a completed suicide attempt.
One way that everyone can help is to examine our own views about mental illness, and work to reduce the stigma associated with a mental illness diagnosis and subsequent treatment.
NAMI is a great non-profit organization that works toward this goal. There are NAMI walks all over the country -- please consider joining one to show your support of those who suffer from mental illness. The Phoenix walk is on October 18.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.0 -
The fact that people can argue over stats when the issue here is that people ARE KILLING THEMSELVES is disgusting. Whether the stats are off or not, you can take that up with the publisher of the article.
The fact that people (specifically men that we're talking about here) in the prime of their life feel the need to kill themselves is frightening and disturbing. Do they feel like they have no where to turn? Does it just get so overwhelming and the society they're in doesn't foster an open-help policy?
I know that I've been there before (girl, not guy) but it was similar. I felt alone (even though I wasn't) and when I talked to people who said that they wanted to listen and help, and tended to get "it's not that bad, just suck it up and deal with it". If it was that easy, I WOULD have.
But I couldn't. There was no 'sucking up' to be had. I was being swallowed alive and everything was just far too overwhelming. Which led to my developing an eating disorder in order to comfort and help numb what I was feeling. I thought about death. I thought about ending everything. Who wants to continue living when it's so hard and unimportant? Who wants to feel like, for some reason, they're unable to handle life when everyone else finds it just so simple?
My conclusion after all of this: It isn't simple. It's not simple for anyone, despite what's said. We all suffer inner turmoil, just some feel it more than others. I obviously didn't follow through, and I'm thankful. I'm stronger, I'm smarter, and I'm much more aware than I was. It does get better.
So the next time one of your friends says "I need to talk..." , just listen to them. Give them honest, heartfelt opinions if they ask for it. Please don't tell them to "man-up, suck it up, or deal with it".
TRUTH.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.0 -
I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, suicide was a huge problem for society regardless of what continent you are on. Picking apart a post for factual inaccuracies that is simply intended to emphasize the problem is just silly and ridiculous!
And regardless of actual 'ranking' in top deaths.
If it's in even the 'top 10', then it's happening way too frequently.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I don't know if the program is culturally different over there than here in the US. But typically, you choose a sponsor to bring you back if you fall off the wagon. If your friends didn't have a sponsor, then they weren't working the program correctly.
Also, since the program was created by a clergyman, that religious claptrap is the foundation that the program was built upon. The program is very accepting of other belief systems. No one is turned away or expected to convert.0 -
I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, suicide was a huge problem for society regardless of what continent you are on. Picking apart a post for factual inaccuracies that is simply intended to emphasize the problem is just silly and ridiculous!
And regardless of actual 'ranking' in top deaths.
If it's in even the 'top 10', then it's happening way too frequently.
Agreed. I'd like to add that if it's happening AT ALL, then it's happening too frequently.
0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I don't know if the program is culturally different over there than here in the US. But typically, you choose a sponsor to bring you back if you fall off the wagon. If your friends didn't have a sponsor, then they weren't working the program correctly.
Also, since the program was created by a clergyman, that religious claptrap is the foundation that the program was built upon. The program is very accepting of other belief systems. No one is turned away or expected to convert.
Well the 12 steps does not need to be done with a sponsor. I never really read the entire rule book. A sponsor is someone who has been there and is now sober. Longer sobriety the better a sponsor.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.
Really? I know our AA and NA in my town are pretty much the same thing being religious based. The only difference is one group has alcoholics and the other group has narcotic addicts. I read an article about a group, it's still pretty small but they are growing across the country that deal with addiciton group councling. They aren't religious based and they focus on you healing yourself. And if you are doing their step program and you fall off the wagon, you don't start over with step one, you continue from where you are at and learn that you made a mistake and to forgive yourself and keep going.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.
Really? I know our AA and NA in my town are pretty much the same thing being religious based. The only difference is one group has alcoholics and the other group has narcotic addicts. I read an article about a group, it's still pretty small but they are growing across the country that deal with addiciton group councling. They aren't religious based and they focus on you healing yourself. And if you are doing their step program and you fall off the wagon, you don't start over with step one, you continue from where you are at and learn that you made a mistake and to forgive yourself and keep going.
The people who relapse in my treatment always thought there sober time was gone. So they are pushing for your time does not get erase. I would hear people who was happy to be sober for seven days. Yes it was a accomplishment for them. Every Monday from the weekend was someone relapsing and you have to tell the group.0 -
in the UK where I live for men aged between 20 - 49 years old almost made me fall off my chair when I read what it was.
It is not road traffic accidents.
It is not heart disease.
It is not cancer.
Or even obesity.
It is suicide.
So, if you are a man and you struggle with these thoughts, if you feel despair and hopelessness and doubt please know you are not alone. It is not a reflection of your worth as a man to any degree. There is help out there for you and taking that help is just as important as looking after yourself physically.
CALM - The Campaign Against Living Miserably - is a UK charity which supports men who struggle in this area. Their website can be found here: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/
Live long my brothers.
#mandown
What an excellent post. Thanks, OP.
I lost an amazing friend in high school for this very reason. It was insane, but as a freshman, the guy could fly a single engine plane, had refurbished a 60s era racing boat, was winning local motorcross events. He was the man. No one knew how lonely the guy was and how awful his home life was.
If you feel suicidal, here are a few promises: 1. you are not alone; 2. someone wants you alive.
Please, reach out.0 -
in the UK where I live for men aged between 20 - 49 years old almost made me fall off my chair when I read what it was.
It is not road traffic accidents.
It is not heart disease.
It is not cancer.
Or even obesity.
It is suicide.
So, if you are a man and you struggle with these thoughts, if you feel despair and hopelessness and doubt please know you are not alone. It is not a reflection of your worth as a man to any degree. There is help out there for you and taking that help is just as important as looking after yourself physically.
CALM - The Campaign Against Living Miserably - is a UK charity which supports men who struggle in this area. Their website can be found here: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/
Live long my brothers.
#mandown
I believe that suicide does need a platform, is serious and should be taken serious, but, its purely not true that it is the number #1 reason of death in men 20-49 in the UK...
Not even close...
Leading causes of death in men, England and Wales, 2012
Rank Leading cause of death No. of men Percentage of men
1 Heart disease 37423 15.60%
2 Lung cancer 16698 7.00%
3 Emphysema/bronchitis 14378 6.00%
4 Stroke 14116 5.90%
5 Dementia and Alzheimer’s 13984 5.80%
6 Flu/pneumonia 11063 4.60%
7 Prostate cancer 9698 4.00%
8 Bowel cancer 7841 3.30%
9 Lymphoid cancer 6301 2.60%
10 Throat cancer 4603 1.90%
Not even on the Top 10 list... Once again, misinformation is king on the net...
Mark0 -
I just went back and read this forum. Debating the statistics? What a bunch of @ssholes.0
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