Thoughts on veganism?
Replies
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0somuchbetter0 wrote: »Humans are naturally omnivores. Everything else is just fashion.
I wish we were phototrophs or chemotrophs. Things would be so much simpler!
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
This one has gone far beyond hijacking.0 -
Veganism for ethics is a personal choice. Veganism for health is nonsense.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
I am curious why Food, Inc. is considered one sided. What is the "other side"? Talk of the Green Revolution and merits of industrialized farming? We've been hearing that for decades. The point of that movie is to question those things, not be a news tribune article.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
Falling into bias certainly does. Generally a one-sided story is due to bias. There's a couple that I've seen that were single sided, but were fair and balanced. I don't think any of them were from US producers though.0 -
0somuchbetter0 wrote: »Humans are naturally omnivores. Everything else is just fashion.
I wish we were phototrophs or chemotrophs. Things would be so much simpler!
And we wouldn't be fat!0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
I am curious why Food, Inc. is considered one sided. What is the "other side"? Talk of the Green Revolution and merits of industrialized farming? We've been hearing that for decades.
Feed lots where cows don't have holes in their stomachs?0 -
By the 5th or 6th time you watch a group of predators begin feasting on a still living prey animal, you come to realize that yeah... it really can be.thelazydandelion wrote: »I personally don't think killing anything is a gift.
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By the 5th or 6th time you watch a group of predators begin feasting on a still living prey animal, you come to realize that yeah... it really can be.thelazydandelion wrote: »I personally don't think killing anything is a gift.
Yeah... I care about animals too and if I see a small wild animal that is injured, I'll take it to be euthanized if it can't be rehabilitated (sometimes I've had to kill them myself if I knew they couldn't make it, for time constraints, that ******* sucks). The kindest thing to do is to have it put down rather than starve or have a long, painful death. But there are trade-offs, because it might mean depriving some other animal of food. Not so much, though, when you live in a city and the most likely animal to find it would be a well-fed housecat. One horrendous event was when a cat already got to a litter of mouse pups, and was torturing them. We had to step on them because they were already goners.
Nature is pretty cruel.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
I am curious why Food, Inc. is considered one sided. What is the "other side"? Talk of the Green Revolution and merits of industrialized farming? We've been hearing that for decades.
Feed lots where cows don't have holes in their stomachs?
Have you ever been to a feed lot? The holes in the their stomachs is actually more helpful than not when their diet is so poor; and yes, if it's a feed lot, their diets are poor.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
I am curious why Food, Inc. is considered one sided. What is the "other side"? Talk of the Green Revolution and merits of industrialized farming? We've been hearing that for decades.
Feed lots where cows don't have holes in their stomachs?
Have you ever been to a feed lot? The holes in the their stomachs is actually more helpful than not when their diet is so poor; and yes, if it's a feed lot, their diets are poor.
I've driven by feed lots, but never inside one. Since the feed lots are typically for finishing before slaughter, I imagine the quality of their diet is the least of the cow's worries.
My point, however, is the cow with the hole in it was good shock value for the documentary.0 -
My thoughts are it's seriously lacking delicious meat0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Good ones are not.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aren't most documentaries one-sided?
Being one-sided doesn't necessarily make a documentary bad.
I would argue that.
That would be fine, but probably should do it in another thread so as not to hijack this one.
I am curious why Food, Inc. is considered one sided. What is the "other side"? Talk of the Green Revolution and merits of industrialized farming? We've been hearing that for decades.
Feed lots where cows don't have holes in their stomachs?
Have you ever been to a feed lot? The holes in the their stomachs is actually more helpful than not when their diet is so poor; and yes, if it's a feed lot, their diets are poor.
I've driven by feed lots, but never inside one. Since the feed lots are typically for finishing before slaughter, I imagine the quality of their diet is the least of the cow's worries.
My point, however, is the cow with the hole in it was good shock value for the documentary.
What is the relevance of this point then? Yeah, the fact that farms have invasive action taken due to the diet of their cows is pretty shocking.0 -
By the 5th or 6th time you watch a group of predators begin feasting on a still living prey animal, you come to realize that yeah... it really can be.thelazydandelion wrote: »I personally don't think killing anything is a gift.
Yeah... I care about animals too and if I see a small wild animal that is injured, I'll take it to be euthanized if it can't be rehabilitated (sometimes I've had to kill them myself if I knew they couldn't make it, for time constraints, that ******* sucks). The kindest thing to do is to have it put down rather than starve or have a long, painful death. But there are trade-offs, because it might mean depriving some other animal of food. Not so much, though, when you live in a city and the most likely animal to find it would be a well-fed housecat. One horrendous event was when a cat already got to a litter of mouse pups, and was torturing them. We had to step on them because they were already goners.
Nature is pretty cruel.
My cat, I love her dearly, but she caught a mouse one night and took a leg off. Then just played with it and watched it for a while. When I investigated, she growled at me for taking it, but that was a hard scene. I ended it quickly, but wow.0 -
It won't make you live forever, but it will sure seem that way.0
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My cat, I love her dearly, but she caught a mouse one night and took a leg off. Then just played with it and watched it for a while. When I investigated, she growled at me for taking it, but that was a hard scene. I ended it quickly, but wow.
I know, right? Love my cats too, but I know their game.
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Now you must run crooked! HAHAHAHAHA0
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By the 5th or 6th time you watch a group of predators begin feasting on a still living prey animal, you come to realize that yeah... it really can be.thelazydandelion wrote: »I personally don't think killing anything is a gift.
This. One of the reasons I can't agree with the idea that death itself is inhumane is that I'm a firm believer that there are fates worse than death.
All living things deny something else the ability to live. Even plants do this by crowding and choking out other plants and taking the nutrients. Everyone has to deny the life of something else (either existing or potential life) in order to live. The difference is where each of us chooses to draw that line. For me, I see no point in drawing it between plants and animals.
To the couple of people insinuating that all us omnivores don't care where our food is sourced, please stop. While some people don't care, you don't have to be veg*n to care about the source of your food. A number of my friends and I specifically get our meat (and produce) from the best sources we can, ideally sustainable, local farms, if not our own land. It's better for the animals, and we feel it's better for us.
Someone mentioned the Blue Zone people earlier. The idea that the Blue Zone people are all vegan is a myth (arguably a bald-faced and easily-refuted lie). The only Blue Zone population that is full vegan are the 7th Day Adventists (arguably, because they're the only ones who have lived in a society that can support such a diet), and they even acknowledge that you need to supplement particular nutrients to do it healthfully (their reasons for being vegan are religious, not health). The rest thrive on varying amounts of animal products. The Okinawans, for example, are quite large pork eaters, traditionally (even moreso before the influence of Buddhism). It's their staple animal, and they do a bunch of cooking with lard. While the source varies, this is seen across the other Blue Zone people, too.
I'm of the opinion that veganism is inherently nutrient deficient and requires fortification or supplementation from somewhere (in general; I'm aware that there are some people who can do it successfully without supplementation, but from what I've seen, they're the minority), so I don't recommend it for health purposes (far be it from me to stop you from doing it for ethical purposes, but do be aware of the nutritional weaknesses and plan accordingly), but vegetarianism or pescatarian can be very healthy ways of eating, particularly if you emphasize whole foods. In my opinion, what makes the various ways of eating that are not the Standard American Diet so successful (and better markers in studies) has more to do with higher emphasis on whole and minimally processed foods and less on heavily-processed foods, and I think whole foods should be the primary focus of any way of eating.0 -
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I've been vegan for 9 months now and I LOVE it! Don't plan on ever going back. I do it for health, the environment, and animal rights. The first month was hard for me (kudos to you for getting through it!) but I promise it only gets easier
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I meant that I personally wouldn't choose to kill a healthy animal so I can eat it. Ofc it would be a different matter if I found something suffering etc... And as far predators, I can't cope with that and know animals are cruel beasts but I know better than them so I don't do it lol0
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thelazydandelion wrote: »I meant that I personally wouldn't choose to kill a healthy animal so I can eat it. Ofc it would be a different matter if I found something suffering etc... And as far predators, I can't cope with that and know animals are cruel beasts but I know better than them so I don't do it lol
This opens so many lines of philosophical discussion.
I'll just leave this here.
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Leave what? I must admit that I worded that badly and have probably left my self open to criticism0
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Hmmm, your link isn't working.
youtube.com/watch?v=gJ_3BN0m7S8
ETA - there it is, you need the https://0 -
Hmmm, your link isn't working.
youtube.com/watch?v=gJ_3BN0m7S8
ETA - there it is, you need the https://
Thanks!! Fixed.
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thelazydandelion wrote: »Leave what? I must admit that I worded that badly and have probably left my self open to criticism
Not criticizing.
Just discussing. This is a forum. lol
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Sorry feeling insecure this evening. And I've seen that video I should have said most animals, I should know better than to generalize 0
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I haven't read all 8 pages here but I eat a whole foods plant based diet. I say I'm vegan sometimes just because that's a more familiar term to a lot of people, but it's not for ethical reasons. Since going plant based my fibromyalgia has disappeared. I also have incredibly low cholesterol (so low the NHS flagged it up as abnormal - but the GP laughed when he saw why and said they rarely see numbers so low and it's a very good thing!), blood pressure, am not deficient in anything (had recent full blood workup), donate blood (so iron level is fine). I don't supplement with anything except the very occasional B12 just to be on the safe side. I think being plant based means you can get your nutrients - after all, where do we think cows get their protein, etc? Plants! But you can be vegan and eat junk (oreos, tvp, fries, etc) and not be healthy or be deficient in nutrients. To be fair, I think a lot of meat eaters are deficient in nutrients... I see some people's diaries and honestly wonder how they get any vitamins because there are no vegetables or fruit in them at all really! (Bit of a tangent, sorry!)
If anyone wants to add me that eats a similar diet, feel free.0 -
I was just saying to my partner that, I didn't get all the nutrients I needed even when I was eating meat. It's something that I have to work on (there's a reason I have lazy in my username) and nothing at all to do with the vegan diet I'm currently on.
However despite not getting all my nutrients, I feel better not eating dairy or meat, No bloating etc.0
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