Juice Diet
Replies
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Thanks NewLIFE. Thats pretty well what I was thinking.
VERY expensive, time consuming and not very easy in a practical way.
It is a lot of food, expensive food that you have to buy daily.
There is little doubt that it does work, primarily for health reasons but is only a short long term solution and longer term you have to be able to eat better as well.
Yep....
A I'm so glad that you realize that it's a LOT of food...because it is a lot of food daily, I mean A LOT! The veggies I'd juice (a bunch of collards, a bunch of spinach, a beet, 4 or so stalks of celery, a sweet potato, a bunch of rainbow chard, carrots, a bunch dandelion greens, parsnips, a bunch of parsley, lemons, cilantro, green apples, ginger, tummeric, all kinds of stuff I used to juice, these are just a few of the items that I remember that I'd juice in combo to make-up my daily two juice meals--would take up TONS of space in the fridge, and thus YES...i'd have to shop daily--which was a chore too). That's NOT including my one "real" organic meal--which was very expensive too. There is NO WAY I could sit down and consume all of the veggies I'd be drinking in my juice--no way!
Also, I wasn't juicing to "detox" or cleanse anything...I was doing it for the vitamins, minerals and nutrients and because I didn't eat a lot of veggies....I actually thought I hated vegetables and juicing also to help me to kick the S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) I was addicted to--which it did also. Juicing helped me to not only over my carb addiction, but my sugar-sweets/junk food addiction, my coffee addiction, my pork and processed meats addiction and it also helped me overcome my hatred for exercising too....temporarily. Once I hurt myself, overdoing it in the exercising dept. (juicing gave me an excessive amount of energy, akin to super caffeine or something, it's hard to describe). Once I injured myself--that was the beginning of the end. Like I said before, once I stopped exercising and juicing two meals per day and started eating like I did before (restarted the S.A.D. diet) I didn't regain all the weight immediately back, it took about 6 months or so to regain the blasted weight PLUS more
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Did it for 3 days, lost a little over 3 pounds that have NOT come back. I just did it to reboot. I felt good, went running for the 3 days too. It's something I'd like to do a few times a year to reboot from bad eating habits. When I got back to food, I wasn't naturally as hungry so I did like the results.0
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NewLIFEstyle4ME wrote: »Juicing was the ONLY thing that helped me lose weight (almost 20lbs and massive amount of inches loss and bodyfat decrease in 2.5-3 months--then the scale loss stalled). I juiced (predominately organically grown veggie juices and NEVER fruit juices--I would organic eat fruit instead) exclusively for two meals and had one nice sized "real" meal per day and two healthy snacks. I stopped eating out, with the exception of Thai Food, every other week or so. I stopped eating red meats and pork, stopped eating "processed foods" as much as earthly possible, stopped drinking coffee, only drank water (besides my juices), stopped eating dairy (I would use non-soy vegan sources for my dairy and meats/protein and I would also eat wild caught tuna and fish and an ocassionally. I'd eat organic local farm raised eggs. What happened to me during this 2.5-3 month period? I had energy like crazy, my blurry eye-sight got so much better, I stopped wearing my glasses, my hair, nails and skin were radiant, I slept so much better and even my shoe size when down a whole size, I dropped 4 pants sizes in this time too and started exercising like crazy and hurt my foot and then my knee. Since being injured I stopped exercising and began to eat like I used to (eating out more than cooking at home, eating junky foods, restarted drinking coffee with lots of cream, and basically went back to eating the way I was before I started "juicing" and within 6 months--I regained the weight I loss PLUS 10lbs and have been struggling ever since to lose this weight!
Conclusion (this is from someone who has real experience with it), my juicing two meals per day and eating one meal and two healthy usually fruit, nuts and good really healthy snacks--eating exclusively organically grown stuff ). It works--but it was SUPER expensive and time consuming and messy and got to be chore like (mundane) and a hassle making and cleaning up the mess. It's not sustainable, which is way I haven't gone back to doing this...it became a dread for me. If you are willing to do this forever, it will work...if not, if you go back to your previous lifestyle of the S.A.D. (standard American Diet)...you'll regain all of your loss and a bit more.
This is what happens with most non-sustainable crash diets. As soon as you return to eating solids, whether they're healthy or not, you will regain the weight and then some. I agree with the others. Begin eating at a calorie deficit, move more and be conscious of what you're putting into your body. Overtime you'll see the change little by little without putting your body into shock,0 -
I honestly feel that juicing is great for good health. Not necessary for weight loss at all. Not as a diet and not as a lifestyle change. I have a vitamix and love to mix all kinds of vegetables that I normally would not eat with tons of fruit for a great juice/smoothie. It helps me to reach my micronutrient goals. I love salads and such, but I rather blend all my salad ingredients sometimes and just drink it. I don't know why, but that is me. Not every one wants to eat all the fruits and veggies off a plate.
I have heard from many many people the amount of energy they get from incorporating juicing into their daily lifestyle. They speak about better skin and digestive health.
Would never do it as a diet, but would incorporate a good juice into my normal daily routine.0 -
NewLIFEstyle4ME wrote: »Juicing was the ONLY thing that helped me lose weight (almost 20lbs and massive amount of inches loss and bodyfat decrease in 2.5-3 months--then the scale loss stalled). I juiced (predominately organically grown veggie juices and NEVER fruit juices--I would organic eat fruit instead) exclusively for two meals and had one nice sized "real" meal per day and two healthy snacks. I stopped eating out, with the exception of Thai Food, every other week or so. I stopped eating red meats and pork, stopped eating "processed foods" as much as earthly possible, stopped drinking coffee, only drank water (besides my juices), stopped eating dairy (I would use non-soy vegan sources for my dairy and meats/protein and I would also eat wild caught tuna and fish and an ocassionally. I'd eat organic local farm raised eggs. What happened to me during this 2.5-3 month period? I had energy like crazy, my blurry eye-sight got so much better, I stopped wearing my glasses, my hair, nails and skin were radiant, I slept so much better and even my shoe size when down a whole size, I dropped 4 pants sizes in this time too and started exercising like crazy and hurt my foot and then my knee. Since being injured I stopped exercising and began to eat like I used to (eating out more than cooking at home, eating junky foods, restarted drinking coffee with lots of cream, and basically went back to eating the way I was before I started "juicing" and within 6 months--I regained the weight I loss PLUS 10lbs and have been struggling ever since to lose this weight!
Conclusion (this is from someone who has real experience with it), my juicing two meals per day and eating one meal and two healthy usually fruit, nuts and good really healthy snacks--eating exclusively organically grown stuff ). It works--but it was SUPER expensive and time consuming and messy and got to be chore like (mundane) and a hassle making and cleaning up the mess. It's not sustainable, which is way I haven't gone back to doing this...it became a dread for me. If you are willing to do this forever, it will work...if not, if you go back to your previous lifestyle of the S.A.D. (standard American Diet)...you'll regain all of your loss and a bit more.
Could I just ask what let you to conclude that juicing was the ultimate and ONLY reason you lost weight, when you also made other changes like not eating processed food, stopped eating out, and incorporated one "real" meal? I mean, you didn't just incorporate juicing while keeping all factors constant. You made many changes. Would you not consider that by doing all these, the simple reason of actually creating a calorie deficit was the reason you lost weight? Just something to think about.0 -
ithrowconfetti wrote: »NewLIFEstyle4ME wrote: »Juicing was the ONLY thing that helped me lose weight (almost 20lbs and massive amount of inches loss and bodyfat decrease in 2.5-3 months--then the scale loss stalled). I juiced (predominately organically grown veggie juices and NEVER fruit juices--I would organic eat fruit instead) exclusively for two meals and had one nice sized "real" meal per day and two healthy snacks. I stopped eating out, with the exception of Thai Food, every other week or so. I stopped eating red meats and pork, stopped eating "processed foods" as much as earthly possible, stopped drinking coffee, only drank water (besides my juices), stopped eating dairy (I would use non-soy vegan sources for my dairy and meats/protein and I would also eat wild caught tuna and fish and an ocassionally. I'd eat organic local farm raised eggs. What happened to me during this 2.5-3 month period? I had energy like crazy, my blurry eye-sight got so much better, I stopped wearing my glasses, my hair, nails and skin were radiant, I slept so much better and even my shoe size when down a whole size, I dropped 4 pants sizes in this time too and started exercising like crazy and hurt my foot and then my knee. Since being injured I stopped exercising and began to eat like I used to (eating out more than cooking at home, eating junky foods, restarted drinking coffee with lots of cream, and basically went back to eating the way I was before I started "juicing" and within 6 months--I regained the weight I loss PLUS 10lbs and have been struggling ever since to lose this weight!
Conclusion (this is from someone who has real experience with it), my juicing two meals per day and eating one meal and two healthy usually fruit, nuts and good really healthy snacks--eating exclusively organically grown stuff ). It works--but it was SUPER expensive and time consuming and messy and got to be chore like (mundane) and a hassle making and cleaning up the mess. It's not sustainable, which is way I haven't gone back to doing this...it became a dread for me. If you are willing to do this forever, it will work...if not, if you go back to your previous lifestyle of the S.A.D. (standard American Diet)...you'll regain all of your loss and a bit more.
Could I just ask what let you to conclude that juicing was the ultimate and ONLY reason you lost weight, when you also made other changes like not eating processed food, stopped eating out, and incorporated one "real" meal? I mean, you didn't just incorporate juicing while keeping all factors constant. You made many changes. Would you not consider that by doing all these, the simple reason of actually creating a calorie deficit was the reason you lost weight? Just something to think about.
Well, I come to that conclusion because I've tried soooooooo many other things since then. I've tried these things for the past 2.5 years, for at least 3 months at a time with no success...I've been gaining and losing the same blasted 5-10lbs for the past 2+ years with no success. I've tried:
1.) eating 1200 cals
2.) Eat more to weigh less
3.) eating back my exercise cals and not eating back my exercise cals
4.) hiring a personal trainer and lifting heavy--easy on cardio
5.) doing lots of cardio & lifting heavy
6.) lots of other things too...
I've tried just about EVERYTHING...except for weighing my food. I KNOW so many people who have been successful with weighing their food, but I just don't want to. Weighing food to me is a lot like juicing--it seems burdensome and excessive to me.
I say that juicing is the only thing, because juicing is what "psychologically" helped me to make the many other changes I made when I was successful in losing weight. So, technically you're right--it wasn't just the juicing, but for me...it was. I've just got to buckle down and humble myself and start weighing my foods, I reckon. I'll open my diary (temporarily) so you can see what/how I've been eating too--I eat VERY well and exercise my tail off too...just in case anyone is curious.
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Fred, the (poor) decision is your opinion. However right or wrong it is. If you read again my original post you will read and possibly understand that I was asking what people think of it. if they've tried it etc.
Lets say for a moment that it is a good thing, then yes, who wouldn't be sceptical but if a person just said no, for no reason other than what they think, not based on any evidence, then they are very closed minded.
Their loss
I was merely asking peoples opinions and not making any decision to do or try this myself. I am open minded and want to know and learn.
I am willing to accept though it may work or may not. Again, open minded.-1 -
Thanks for the clarification, NewLIFE. My only gripe was that your initial post made it seem like juicing was the ultimate end-all to all diet solutions, but I do appreciate your response. I'm glad you got something to work for you. We all have our own ways of reaching our targets, and I hope whatever you do is sustainable for you.0
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The fiber juicing eliminates is at least as important as the nutrients it leaves in.
Fiber regulates a steady glycemic response to natural sugars in fruits (preventing insulin spikes from juice alone), feeds the essential bacteria that promote nutrient absorption, keeps the gut healthy, and keeps you full. Why would anyone want to eliminate that?0 -
jennyredfern wrote: »I have done a juice fast and also the Master Cleanse. The juice fast was ok. I did it for 3 days. It's messy and takes a lot of food to make a small amount of juice. The juice tastes ok.
The Master Cleanse was amazing. I highly recommend it to anyone solely for the experience. You are allowed all the lemonade you want. The lemonade is made mixing fresh squeezed organic lemons, honey and cayenne (as much of each as you want/can tolerate for the cayenne) into water. You also take a colon cleanser... you poop a lot. The first day is easy. By the end of the second day I was crabby and got a headache. By the end of the third day the amazing experience kicked in. I could think more clearly than I ever have. My vision was better, I could hear better, my sense of smell was amazing. I think this would be the case with any fast, but this is the only one I've tried. By the 5th day I did need to eat. I wanted to last 7 days, but by the 5th day I was dizzy and weak. This is not something to try when you have obligations or need to maintain a physical lifestyle. I lost 10 pounds. Another benefit was that my stomach shrunk. I was full after less than half of what I normally would eat. This lasted for days.
Good luck to you!
LOL
curious - what toxins did the "master cleanse" remove that your body does not naturally cleanse itself of?
unless of course your kidneys stopped working and that was why you needed a "master cleanse"....0 -
I'm 52, I love crisps (potato chips) I love Coke, i love crappy fast food. I've been poisoning myself with all this rubbish for decades. The results of which brought me to MFP in the first place and I'm willing to bet a lot of other people as well.
So, my body is full of salt, sugar and probably far more poisons than i know of. So, a diet, any diet that re balances surely would be a good thing?
Longer term, a balanced eating diet without all that other stuff would be desired but for short term to re balance surely it wouldn't be a bad thing?
the problem is not the foods you are eating, but your attitude towards them. There is no "bad" or "good" food; there is just food that your body utilizes for energy.
If your body is full of poisons how are you still alive?
You do realize that your body breaks down sugar and uses it for energy? If you are in a energy deficit you maintain, if you are in an energy surplus you gain ...sugar does not just sit around in your body building up to a critical mass point...0 -
NewLIFEstyle4ME wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »NewLIFEstyle4ME wrote: »Juicing was the ONLY thing that helped me lose weight (almost 20lbs and massive amount of inches loss and bodyfat decrease in 2.5-3 months--then the scale loss stalled). I juiced (predominately organically grown veggie juices and NEVER fruit juices--I would organic eat fruit instead) exclusively for two meals and had one nice sized "real" meal per day and two healthy snacks. I stopped eating out, with the exception of Thai Food, every other week or so. I stopped eating red meats and pork, stopped eating "processed foods" as much as earthly possible, stopped drinking coffee, only drank water (besides my juices), stopped eating dairy (I would use non-soy vegan sources for my dairy and meats/protein and I would also eat wild caught tuna and fish and an ocassionally. I'd eat organic local farm raised eggs. What happened to me during this 2.5-3 month period? I had energy like crazy, my blurry eye-sight got so much better, I stopped wearing my glasses, my hair, nails and skin were radiant, I slept so much better and even my shoe size when down a whole size, I dropped 4 pants sizes in this time too and started exercising like crazy and hurt my foot and then my knee. Since being injured I stopped exercising and began to eat like I used to (eating out more than cooking at home, eating junky foods, restarted drinking coffee with lots of cream, and basically went back to eating the way I was before I started "juicing" and within 6 months--I regained the weight I loss PLUS 10lbs and have been struggling ever since to lose this weight!
Conclusion (this is from someone who has real experience with it), my juicing two meals per day and eating one meal and two healthy usually fruit, nuts and good really healthy snacks--eating exclusively organically grown stuff ). It works--but it was SUPER expensive and time consuming and messy and got to be chore like (mundane) and a hassle making and cleaning up the mess. It's not sustainable, which is way I haven't gone back to doing this...it became a dread for me. If you are willing to do this forever, it will work...if not, if you go back to your previous lifestyle of the S.A.D. (standard American Diet)...you'll regain all of your loss and a bit more.
Could I just ask what let you to conclude that juicing was the ultimate and ONLY reason you lost weight, when you also made other changes like not eating processed food, stopped eating out, and incorporated one "real" meal? I mean, you didn't just incorporate juicing while keeping all factors constant. You made many changes. Would you not consider that by doing all these, the simple reason of actually creating a calorie deficit was the reason you lost weight? Just something to think about.
Well, I come to that conclusion because I've tried soooooooo many other things since then. I've tried these things for the past 2.5 years, for at least 3 months at a time with no success...I've been gaining and losing the same blasted 5-10lbs for the past 2+ years with no success. I've tried:
1.) eating 1200 cals
2.) Eat more to weigh less
3.) eating back my exercise cals and not eating back my exercise cals
4.) hiring a personal trainer and lifting heavy--easy on cardio
5.) doing lots of cardio & lifting heavy
6.) lots of other things too...
I've tried just about EVERYTHING...except for weighing my food. I KNOW so many people who have been successful with weighing their food, but I just don't want to. Weighing food to me is a lot like juicing--it seems burdensome and excessive to me.
I say that juicing is the only thing, because juicing is what "psychologically" helped me to make the many other changes I made when I was successful in losing weight. So, technically you're right--it wasn't just the juicing, but for me...it was. I've just got to buckle down and humble myself and start weighing my foods, I reckon. I'll open my diary (temporarily) so you can see what/how I've been eating too--I eat VERY well and exercise my tail off too...just in case anyone is curious.
you used juicing to create a calorie deficit that, for some reason, you could not create while eating real foods...that is all.
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I did a detox cleanse with Lysol disinfectant. It was ok, but the stuff tasted awful.0
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What is it about running fruits and veggies through a machine that makes people think it imbues the juice with healing cleansing powers? Does chewing the veggies with your teeth not work?
What are these toxins and health benefits specifically? Can you actually name them?
If you dont get enough veggies with your diet then putting them in a drink form that masks the flavor or allows you to drink it fast is about the only advantage I see to juicing. This comes at the cost of losing a lot of the nutrients and fiber in the pulp. I have never seen any evidence that getting mega dose of veggies will do anything other than make your pee smell strong.
Dont be so open minded your brain falls out.
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I'm currently doing a smoothie version of dieting. I've done it for a week now and I've lost 5 lbs. when I check my MFP macronutrient profile, I find that I'm bang on for my protein/fat/carb percentages. I make sure to eat a healthy dinner. I stay within my 1200-1300 calorie range.
Here's the bottom line for me. It's more convenient right now to drink a smoothie at lunch than to find ways to stuff veggies and fruit into me. It's not a long term strategy and I know how to maintain my weight because, quite frankly, I've been doing that for the past 2 years!!!-1 -
mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »What is it about running fruits and veggies through a machine that makes people think it imbues the juice with healing cleansing powers? Does chewing the veggies with your teeth not work?
What are these toxins and health benefits specifically? Can you actually name them?
If you dont get enough veggies with your diet then putting them in a drink form that masks the flavor or allows you to drink it fast is about the only advantage I see to juicing. This comes at the cost of losing a lot of the nutrients and fiber in the pulp. I have never seen any evidence that getting mega dose of veggies will do anything other than make your pee smell strong.
Dont be so open minded your brain falls out.
because juicing = magic .....0 -
Good questions, lol.mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »What is it about running fruits and veggies through a machine that makes people think it imbues the juice with healing cleansing powers?
What are these toxins and health benefits specifically? Can you actually name them?
Dont be so open minded your brain falls out.
I try to keep an open mind. I respect other people's right to their own choices, even if I think they're silly or know they're unhealthy. The world would be a boring place if everyone was the same.
But those are very good questions, especially the first one.
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I would rather eat the food than drink it.0
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There are no benefits to juicing as far as I can tell other than it makes the vegetables easier to consume.
If you take a plateful of vegetables, which I think we'd all agree are healthy and good for us but in my case at least, totally unpalatable (dunno if I spelt that right) and stick them in a juicer, turn them into a glassful of juice, I could probably just about to manage that. So, I've consumed a whole plateful of vegetables or fruit, or both. Now do that 3 times in a day. It has to be healthy. No way I could do that if it was that amount of food on plates.
And please don't misunderstand me. I was only asking what people think of it.
I'm not saying I'm going to do it.
Even the example I used here I used 'me' as the person but it could be anyone.
I am just curious as to what people think of it.
LOL, if i do it, i won't tell anyone though, in case I incur too many peoples wrath -1 -
So juicing is akin to weighing food, which you find "burdensome and excessive"...
But you recommend juicing because it helped you lose weight.
If both are "burdensome and excessive", why not actually try weighing your food and see if it works instead of just proclaiming that juicing is the way?
Or is that not a fun way to one up friends and acquaintances with the social currency that is competitive dieting?
There's a disconnect here.0 -
There are no benefits to juicing as far as I can tell other than it makes the vegetables easier to consume.
If you take a plateful of vegetables, which I think we'd all agree are healthy and good for us but in my case at least, totally unpalatable (dunno if I spelt that right) and stick them in a juicer, turn them into a glassful of juice, I could probably just about to manage that. So, I've consumed a whole plateful of vegetables or fruit, or both. Now do that 3 times in a day. It has to be healthy. No way I could do that if it was that amount of food on plates.
And please don't misunderstand me. I was only asking what people think of it.
I'm not saying I'm going to do it.
Even the example I used here I used 'me' as the person but it could be anyone.
I am just curious as to what people think of it.
LOL, if i do it, i won't tell anyone though, in case I incur too many peoples wrath
I think a juicer to get in your servings of veggies is a legitimate use. I have troubles getting in mine and I only like a few types that I end up eating all the time.
It sounds like a lot of work to me so I would probably do better buying the juice.0 -
I'm 52, I love crisps (potato chips) I love Coke, i love crappy fast food. I've been poisoning myself with all this rubbish for decades. The results of which brought me to MFP in the first place and I'm willing to bet a lot of other people as well.
So, my body is full of salt, sugar and probably far more poisons than i know of. So, a diet, any diet that re balances surely would be a good thing?
Longer term, a balanced eating diet without all that other stuff would be desired but for short term to re balance surely it wouldn't be a bad thing?
No, no and no? Your body gets rid of those things for you. Unless you don't have a liver and kidneys, in which case you have bigger problems than finding a juice fast.
You don't need to 'rebalance' your diet, what a load of crap (literally)
Just eat better, your body will thank you
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I would not suggest doing any fad diet. I am 41 and had tried every single one of them THEY DONT WORK! They will not help you get healthy. if your looking to drop fast weight I suggest a HEALTHY detox then a balanced diet ( lifestyle change) of clean foods and exercise If your interested in what has worked for me and my family and friends message me. I have lost 44 pounds have tons of energy and feel amazing!!-2
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Intersting, lots of replies, mostly against it. I'm not saying I'll try it and certainly not as a way to lose weight. I'm doing fine with this MFP thing so far and love MFP.
It's the possible health benefits that may come from a short juicing period that I find interesting.
Do you have any science that covers the health benefits? I don't think there are any since juicing doesn't actually provide any health benefits.
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You'll probably put all the weight back on once you discontinue with the juice diet. It's just a temporary weight loss strategy... I don't recommend it.0
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Mudler, you asked for the opinions of those who had experience with juicing. I make juice, but consume it as part of an overall healthy diet. I'm more likely to make smoothies, though, so I get the whole fruit or vegetable. My husband did a 60-day juice fast. He lost 30 lbs. The weight-loss was nice, but the surprising thing that happened was that his ankle, which had been swollen for years (even during previous times of weight-loss through other methods) recovered and was no longer swollen. The down sides of juicing are that it limits one's ability to eat socially, and he also noticed that he needed to bundle up a little more. He felt cold more easily. Juicing might be a nutrient-rich part of an overall diet, but as the only food consumed it would be difficult to maintain, I believe. Good luck to you!0
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andreannab wrote: »I would not suggest doing any fad diet. I am 41 and had tried every single one of them THEY DONT WORK! They will not help you get healthy. if your looking to drop fast weight I suggest a HEALTHY detox then a balanced diet ( lifestyle change) of clean foods and exercise If your interested in what has worked for me and my family and friends message me. I have lost 44 pounds have tons of energy and feel amazing!!
Arsenic.
Non GMO, organic, free of carbs and sugars...0 -
andreannab wrote: »I would not suggest doing any fad diet. I am 41 and had tried every single one of them THEY DONT WORK! They will not help you get healthy. if your looking to drop fast weight I suggest a HEALTHY detox then a balanced diet ( lifestyle change) of clean foods and exercise If your interested in what has worked for me and my family and friends message me. I have lost 44 pounds have tons of energy and feel amazing!!
There is no such thing as a healthy detox because detoxes are never needed. Your body does that all by itself.
Congratulations on your weight loss, I've lost 44 pounds as well. I eat everything under the sun except that which I'm sensitive to or don't like.
Clean eating has nothing to do with weight loss. Neither does exercise, but it is definitely an added plus.
A lifestyle change can be accomplished in many ways.
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Yeah but they (not necessarily me) would argue that science tells us that eating the correct nutrients will replace the so called 'food' you buy in the supermarket
Where do you get the foods you juice? Presumably the same place you get the fruits and veggies you eat now, which for many or most people is, well, the supermarket, yes?
So why is supermarket food magically transformed if you juice it?
I never understand why people would want to juice fruits and veggies vs. just eating them and getting the fiber (plus the benefits of eating and tastiness of cooking) and also eating other good things with them like protein and, yes, fat.0
This discussion has been closed.
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