Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Apples contain fructose, glucose and sucrose. so again that's why her continual mention of fructose is silly
Apples also contain fiber and protein, slowing the glucose spike and making them more satisfying than something that is all sugar, and thus a binge is less likely. The apple is metabolized more slowly than something that has all its calories from sugar (sucrose, HFCS). Apples come naturally portion controlled (unlike a box of cookies), which makes it easier to realize when a serving has been eaten. Also, an apple has less sugar (10 grams only a couple of which are sucrose) than, say, a can of soda (41 grams for 340 ml of Pepsi, pretty much all sucrose), so there is less of a glucose spike and "sugar high". Apples have pectin that appears to help lower LDL cholesterol. Apples have vitamin C and polyphenolic compounts that fight free radicals (protect from cancer), trace minerals like magnesium, potassium and calcium, that are good for the body's aches and pains (among other things), and a host of B vitamins, which are neccessary for maintaining red blood cells and the nervous system. Apples are in no way an equivalent match to soda, or most sugary junk food when making a comparison as far as sucrose impact. Apples (and other fruits and vegetables) are a straw-man argument in this debate.
Ok, frosted mini wheats should be able to be eaten in moderation by "sugar addicts"? I don't see how it's a strawman when someone says they are addicted to sugar and just a tiny bit causes a binge0 -
Overeating does not equal a binge, though.
Do people overconsume soda? Obviously. Mindlessly, sometimes? Sure. Is it a "trigger food" or do people binge on it? They might, but I've yet to see someone claim that's their issue.
ETA:
You know, I seem to always get hung up on words, but I really do think the lack of a more specific definition of binging is part of the difficulty here.
Deirdre I think is talking about what I'd call a binge--compulsive eating that might not even be pleasurable while you are doing it.
In my mind that's different from "oh my, these cookies are SO good, I can't stop eating them" resulting in one eating way more than planned and feeling upset afterwards.
If you can't stop because you want to keep eating something tasty, that's different (and more related to willpower, although I agree with your comments on that), although it too can have psychological components (emotional eating or some kind of mixed up reward thing and all that).
Soda--especially huge sized soda--seems different still, really more of a mindless consumption much of the time.0 -
Well said.0
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I didn't say NO willpower. I said limited. Here's an experiment.
Put a big bowl of your favorite binge snack in a prominent place that you will pass often during the day. Say NO every time you pass. Muscle that willpower! You may be able to successfully pass that bowl every single time, but your willpower will be depleted. You might snap at a co-worker, for instance, in a momentary loss of control.
Now package up that favorite binge snack in individual portions and hide the rest away. This is strategic and requires only a little willpower. You now have self-control in reserve to be nice to your annoying co-worker.
There's good science behind this, too:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-chocolate-and-radish-experiment-that-birthed-the-modern-conception-of-willpower/255544/
I keep about four pints of talenti gelato in my freezer and I walk by it every day that I am at home. If I want some, I take it out, have a serving, and put it back. If I do not have any then I do not get "snappy"..
at the office there is a big bowl of candy in the break room that I walk by. If I walk by it five times I do not "deplete" anything, I simply walk by and if i see an employee I ask them how there day is going and do not snap at them…
your idea of willpower is pretty warped…
if I don't have candy I do not turn into an *kitten*...0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »But back to willpower. Why is my willpower lopsided? It works just fine with most foods but doesn't work at all with some foods.
I guess some foods are simply harder to resist then others... at least that is the case with me.
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Extra helpings of meals is the easiest and best way to lose weight0
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LolBroScience wrote: »GeeWillickers wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.
if you don't have willpower how do you teach yourself portion control? Seems you would need one for the other...
Screw willpower. What people need is to develop grit. Dogged consistent determination. I sound like a traitor in saying this but you DO have to want it bad enough. But that is only half of it. It's the getting to that point that is the problem for some people. They just don't know how to beat the weird game they have going on with themselves. They need to develop strategies. To teach themselves portion control. And how to do that's going to vary depending on their particular issue with food.
I want it bad enough just not eat broccoli, brown rice and chicken breast five times a day bad enough.
What?
yeeeeahh. That was my response, too.
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Well, ndj, you might possibly be a special snowflake. The idea of limited willpower that depletes self control across the spectrum I learned from that study I cited.-1
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it's almost like everyone's willpower is different. perhaps we should be tailoring our diets so that we put the least amount of stress on our willpower as possible.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »No, Deirdre just claimed that the reason people get fat is they are ignorant.
Ah! I see the problem!
You wrote: "Why don't people say what they mean?"
I responded "They don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help."
Misplaced modifier - "That's why they are on MFP -- they are overweight and looking for help" (implication -- to help them learn what they are actually talking about -- sweet foods rather than sugar).
No slur intended.
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Well, ndj, you might possibly be a special snowflake. The idea of limited willpower that depletes self control across the spectrum I learned from that study I cited.
lol I am a special snowflake because I do not turn into a b*itch when I "use" willpower, really? okie dokie…
where is this study you referenced?-3 -
Well, ndj, you might possibly be a special snowflake. The idea of limited willpower that depletes self control across the spectrum I learned from that study I cited.
lol I am a special snowflake because I do not turn into a b*itch when I "use" willpower, really? okie dokie…
where is this study you referenced?
she linked it at the bottom of the radish and chocolate post
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »But back to willpower. Why is my willpower lopsided? It works just fine with most foods but doesn't work at all with some foods.
I guess some foods are simply harder to resist then others... at least that is the case with me.
It's the case for most people. Most people have their kryptonite, because YES, willpower (however it is defined) is a limited resource that can and does deplete.
My kryptonite is sausages and hot dogs. I don't eliminate them from my diet, but I sure as **** don't keep them in the house, because it's just too damn hard for me to not indulge in them.
Pretty much any other food? No problem, just walk on by.
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so you have the will power to eliminate an entire food group but not the will power to moderate that same food group? that sounds legit...
This kind of proves my point, not yours. If binging is willpower, then I shouldn't have the willpower to eliminate the food entirely if I can't moderate it.
But if binging is caused by the food, then when I eliminate it, I don't binge any more.0 -
I didn't say NO willpower. I said limited. Here's an experiment.
Put a big bowl of your favorite binge snack in a prominent place that you will pass often during the day. Say NO every time you pass. Muscle that willpower! You may be able to successfully pass that bowl every single time, but your willpower will be depleted. You might snap at a co-worker, for instance, in a momentary loss of control.
Now package up that favorite binge snack in individual portions and hide the rest away. This is strategic and requires only a little willpower. You now have self-control in reserve to be nice to your annoying co-worker.
There's good science behind this, too:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-chocolate-and-radish-experiment-that-birthed-the-modern-conception-of-willpower/255544/
I keep about four pints of talenti gelato in my freezer and I walk by it every day that I am at home. If I want some, I take it out, have a serving, and put it back. If I do not have any then I do not get "snappy"..
at the office there is a big bowl of candy in the break room that I walk by. If I walk by it five times I do not "deplete" anything, I simply walk by and if i see an employee I ask them how there day is going and do not snap at them…
your idea of willpower is pretty warped…
if I don't have candy I do not turn into an *kitten*...I guess some foods are simply harder to resist then others
It's great for you that you are able to walk by the ice cream and have some or not. My kids have ice cream in the freezer right now. I don't eat it. I like ice cream, but I feel like spending my calories on other foods. I'm still losing so I have to keep the deficit. Those little turds have cookies in the cabinet, chips on the counter, and candy in a bag downstairs. I have macros I want to meet, and they aren't singing to me so why bother. But I wasn't always that way. Some foods are harder to resist for some people without eating the whole darn container. It's something they need to work out. I know a lot of people would like to be where you are in the future. But they have things to learn about themselves first. Until they resolve it, they'll be "snappy." I'm only "snappy" now when I'm super hungry and haven't eaten all day long. Some people must take baby-steps.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
so you have the will power to eliminate an entire food group but not the will power to moderate that same food group? that sounds legit...
Yes, that is legit, and there is tons of research into the underlying mechanisms of human behavior that support that premise.
Avoiding temptation is much easier, for most people, then staring temptation in the face and backing away.0 -
miketoryan wrote: »Well, ndj, you might possibly be a special snowflake. The idea of limited willpower that depletes self control across the spectrum I learned from that study I cited.
lol I am a special snowflake because I do not turn into a b*itch when I "use" willpower, really? okie dokie…
where is this study you referenced?
she linked it at the bottom of the radish and chocolate post
I found it…
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baconslave wrote: »I didn't say NO willpower. I said limited. Here's an experiment.
Put a big bowl of your favorite binge snack in a prominent place that you will pass often during the day. Say NO every time you pass. Muscle that willpower! You may be able to successfully pass that bowl every single time, but your willpower will be depleted. You might snap at a co-worker, for instance, in a momentary loss of control.
Now package up that favorite binge snack in individual portions and hide the rest away. This is strategic and requires only a little willpower. You now have self-control in reserve to be nice to your annoying co-worker.
There's good science behind this, too:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-chocolate-and-radish-experiment-that-birthed-the-modern-conception-of-willpower/255544/
I keep about four pints of talenti gelato in my freezer and I walk by it every day that I am at home. If I want some, I take it out, have a serving, and put it back. If I do not have any then I do not get "snappy"..
at the office there is a big bowl of candy in the break room that I walk by. If I walk by it five times I do not "deplete" anything, I simply walk by and if i see an employee I ask them how there day is going and do not snap at them…
your idea of willpower is pretty warped…
if I don't have candy I do not turn into an *kitten*...I guess some foods are simply harder to resist then others
It's great for you that you are able to walk by the ice cream and have some or not. My kids have ice cream in the freezer right now. I don't eat it. I like ice cream, but I feel like spending my calories on other foods. I'm still losing so I have to keep the deficit. Those little turds have cookies in the cabinet, chips on the counter, and candy in a bag downstairs. I have macros I want to meet, and they aren't singing to me so why bother. But I wasn't always that way. Some foods are harder to resist for some people without eating the whole darn container. It's something they need to work out. I know a lot of people would like to be where you are in the future. But they have things to learn about themselves first. Until they resolve it, they'll be "snappy." I'm only "snappy" now when I'm super hungry and haven't eaten all day long. Some people must take baby-steps.
Ok so those of us that don't are 'special snowflakes"….????0 -
miketoryan wrote: »it's almost like everyone's willpower is different. perhaps we should be tailoring our diets so that we put the least amount of stress on our willpower as possible.
DING DING DING! We have a winner!0
This discussion has been closed.
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