Question about women losing fat/building muscle
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madrose0715 wrote: »yup - just looked at those links of yours again. Those women are in fact, medically overweight. Just because someone is overweight doesn't mean they can't look freakin hot.
yep.
I was going to say pretty much the same thing.
Unquestionably hey are medically over weight. hell- people think I'm over weight- but I'm just carrying some decent size and years of muscle.
all a matter of ratiosNow I am 5'4 around 135 pounds. Yes I lift weight and heavy weights at that. I am not at my ideal weight yet, but when I asked how come I still jiggle despite heavy weight lifting...I was told it was because I did not lose enough fat to see the muscle and look "toned". But I have seen women with plenty of fat on them who look toned and they are thicker than I am.
It's like a lot of full figured models (not ALL of them but plenty of them). They are full figured yet they look great in bikini's, and they walk down a runway not jiggling or anything, in lingerie. People keep bringing up age but I have seen plenty of young people who look jiggly and sloppy. That's all I was getting at.
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?0 -
madrose0715 -- I'm your age and you look fabulous...your arms in the after pic especially show your work!
Thanks...this has been a long work in progress...started at 245lbs and working my way to 135. I have always been curvy however, I have lost all my butt and my boobs, haha. Oh well. I am strong and have never been healthier!
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so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.0 -
I suspect she might be sucking a tummy in a wee bit, too. Which I try to do always at all times, but always forget, LOL.
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iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.
Is there a particular opinion you are hoping to hear?0 -
madrose0715 wrote: »iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.
Is there a particular opinion you are hoping to hear?
No, not really. I have just always been curious about this subject. I have seen thin people who have cellulite and jiggle and look sloppy. I have seen thicker people who are technically "overweight" who look firm. I have always wondered why since it goes against a lot of what I was told about fitness.0 -
iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.
My opinion is that you are buying in to an airbrushed myth about women's bodies. The smooth, unblemished skin tightly covering a perfectly proportioned and substantial hourglass figure....
That was achieved through lots and lots of skilled corsetry. Male painters may have painted women idealized, as though they had their corseted figures without corsets, but the fact is, fat jiggles. It's what it does. Heck, I remember when that was considered titillating, when women in silly movies and TV shows would jump up and down just to flash a little jiggle for the male gaze.
The "hardbody" ideal for women is still relatively new...and the whole "defined abs" craze is really in its infancy. (Gather 'round, children, and learn of a day when even men didn't strive for "abs," when the teens in the weight room wanted shoulders and pecs and didn't GAF about their tummies....)
You just seem really conflicted about body types, and reluctant to either embrace yourself as you are or as a work in progress. Don't try to be an idealized thing that doesn't exist. That way lies madness.0 -
iceycoldhot wrote: »madrose0715 wrote: »iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.
Is there a particular opinion you are hoping to hear?
No, not really. I have just always been curious about this subject. I have seen thin people who have cellulite and jiggle and look sloppy. I have seen thicker people who are technically "overweight" who look firm. I have always wondered why since it goes against a lot of what I was told about fitness.
How someone looks to you and what is reality is two different things. I don't know how else to convince you of this fact - if there is a significant layer of fat - there is a jiggle. You do not seem to want to accept that fact and in the end, you are not doing yourself any favours by living in denial.
Many women know tricks to minimize jiggle in real life. They will walk a certain way, sit a certain way, avoid certain kinds of clothing, etc...In photos, there is lighting, poses, photo editing software, clothing selections, makeup, etc...
I PROMISE you, if you went up to one of these 'thick' women as you called them and asked them to get on all fours and shake their booties - you will see fat jiggle. If you ask these 'thick' women to bare themselves naked under bathroom lighting and without photo editing, you will see cellulite.
At the end of the day, what I take from your commentary is that you have some personal issues around modern day body types and what is in fact considered overweight today. If you are looking to reduce your jiggle, you must reduce your body fat. It is not a complicated process. I think your real question is do you WANT to lose body fat?0 -
Sorry, have you guys never seen what OP is talking about? There definitely are people who are overweight and even obese who look smooth and firm. They might jiggle, but they don't necessarily have e.g. lumpy looking skin. It's not something anyone can do anything about if they're not already gifted with that skin (because genetics), but it's not like it doesn't exist0
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OP wrote:iceycoldhot wrote: »Well, when I say "toned" I do not mean seeing muscle definition or anything. I just mean "not jiggly"!
She specified no jiggle, not just smooth skin/lack of dimpled skin.0 -
They ARE jiggly. They DO have cellulite, as did the women in old paintings. (See below)
The woman in the first photo looks firm mostly because of how she is posing, tasteful photoshopping (compared to the second photo) and because she's young. (As your skin looses elasticity with age, gravity HAPPENS, and the softened skin allows even more in the jiggle and sag department. Ask me how I know.)
That man has a great *kitten*.0 -
You just seem really conflicted about body types, and reluctant to either embrace yourself as you are or as a work in progress. Don't try to be an idealized thing that doesn't exist. That way lies madness.iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
I think this perfectly sums up this whole thread. And I hear ya! It took a very long time for me to accept that I would NEVER have that hourglass shaped body. I'm cut more athletic (I was a gymnast and very much have a gymnasts body). But: since working out, lifting weights, basically taking very good care of the body I DO have, I have learned to see its beauty as well. Best of luck on your journey OP. And don't fixate on these "ideals" too much. Just do you0 -
(As your skin looses elasticity with age, gravity HAPPENS, and the softened skin allows even more in the jiggle and sag department. Ask me how I know.)
Or ask me. ( Sorry, my phone is mucking up the quote function for some reason. )
Despite never having carried any extra weight, at age 51 I have jiggly/mushy/saggy bits. In fact, they are probably more evident on me because of the contrast with the rest, which is pretty lean.
I started showing cellulite in my early 30's. Damn genetics. Possibly also partly due to tanning as a youngster.
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myfelinepal wrote: »They ARE jiggly. They DO have cellulite, as did the women in old paintings. (See below)
The woman in the first photo looks firm mostly because of how she is posing, tasteful photoshopping (compared to the second photo) and because she's young. (As your skin looses elasticity with age, gravity HAPPENS, and the softened skin allows even more in the jiggle and sag department. Ask me how I know.)
That man has a great *kitten*.
They are all three mer-ladies. (Naiads or Nereids, technically)0 -
OP, the links won't work for me but I think I know what you are saying and the difference is muscle. Muscle under fat looks more toned or firm or whatever term you're happy with, than the same amount of fat with less muscle under it. There is less jiggle (why would anyone want NO jiggle??). When not eating at a deficit, women who work hard gain muscle under their fat.
People on this site talk a lot about skinny fat (healthy body weight, unhealthy body fat%) but there is little mention of the opposite - overweight with healthy body fat%.0 -
OP: Age has a lot to go with it. But also, as someone already pointed out, it depends on the amount of muscle vs. fat. And everyone is different. What's so hard to understand about this?
I look at the photos you posted and I think both of those women could could stand to lose some weight. It'll just get worse over time as gravity sets in.0 -
Some women's thickness contains a lot of muscle as well as the coating of subcutaneous fat. When these women don't lose down to low body fat but stay at like 25%, then they have the look you describe. That's what my body is like.0
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iceycoldhot wrote: »If these women are considered overweight, then I can safely say BMI is complete *kitten* and needs to get thrown out.
BMI is not *kitten*, but it is a statistic that should be applied on a population level of scale and not something that can be applied to individuals.
That said, a body fat measurement would put both those women you linked to solidly in the overweight department as well. Probably well into the unhealthy range, too. Although one should he careful with that as well, since again, it is not really applicable as such to individuals.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »OP, the links won't work for me but I think I know what you are saying and the difference is muscle. Muscle under fat looks more toned or firm or whatever term you're happy with, than the same amount of fat with less muscle under it. There is less jiggle (why would anyone want NO jiggle??). When not eating at a deficit, women who work hard gain muscle under their fat.
People on this site talk a lot about skinny fat (healthy body weight, unhealthy body fat%) but there is little mention of the opposite - overweight with healthy body fat%.
Actually, the women in the photos have no visible muscle whatsoever, and they would not likely be considered toned by most people. The OP wants to stop being "jiggly".
OP, as others have said, they have good genetics. You will never look like them because you aren't them. It's very hard to not compare yourself to other people, I know. And I do understand what you mean about wanting to look like them.
I see all kinds of success stories about people who lose the same amount of weight as me, who are bigger than me, and they all look better than me. I am all sorts of jiggly. Losing more than 60lbs hasn't changed that. I still look like I have a lot of weight to lose, and I have cellulite and jiggly everywhere. I'm not going to ever have the flat stomach because it's been stretched out for 25 years. Some of the people who have great success stories may have only been overweight for a year or two and they respond better. Or they just have better genetics and fat distribution than I do.
It's best to just accept that, move on, and work on being the best you that you can be.0 -
When you say "thick and toned" I think of this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/78/91/97/789197b550f6de989a5915ce82a4b5d9.jpg
Not saying there's anything wrong with the pictures you posted (although the second one is CLEARLY over-photoshopped...) - but this is my idea of "thick and toned".0 -
iceycoldhot wrote: »madrose0715 wrote: »iceycoldhot wrote: »
so what's your question- what's the deal? what the aim of your comments?? I laid out the various extremes you could have. What other information do you need?
Other opinions would be nice. I came here to get peoples opinions on this subject.
Is there a particular opinion you are hoping to hear?
No, not really. I have just always been curious about this subject. I have seen thin people who have cellulite and jiggle and look sloppy. I have seen thicker people who are technically "overweight" who look firm. I have always wondered why since it goes against a lot of what I was told about fitness.
This has nothing to do with fitness in a direct way. Most of it is about connective tissue. You can be rather heavy built and have smooth and firm tissue - or you can be super skinny and have these mean dints... It has to do with age, hormones, gens, the "quality" of tissue underneath - in general women haven't got the same firm tissue than men.
Talking about pictures is not that easy because most pictures in the world wide web are photoshopped. Therefore you cannot tell if these women have a smooth and firm tissue or not
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My opinion is that you find these women attractive because of where their bodyfat is distributed. Neither one of them are toned, the second pic is likely photoshopped (first could be but I can't tell to be honest). I guarantee you that first women is plenty "jiggly" and I don't say that to be mean/rude to her as I don't think jiggly is necessarily bad.
Some people just have fortunate body-fat distribution when it comes to what some people find attractive.0 -
I wouldn't really call those women you initial posted "toned". I don't mean this in a negative at all, it's just my definition of the word means to have a fairly decent amount of muscle, and a low enough body fat to show the definition of the muscle slightly.
To me, I can't see any muscle definition on her. She has what I think is very well proportioned body fat (which is largely genetics) but there's definitely fat there. If she was to lose this, she will probably look smaller, less thick.
I think it's also worth noting that you can get "thick" women, who are really toned still. There are other factors, such as their bone structure (not every woman has wide hips) and how much muscle they have. If they have a lot of muscle but a decent amount of fat so there's only slight definition, she may look toned but be in subsequently larger sizes and look thicker.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »OP, the links won't work for me but I think I know what you are saying and the difference is muscle. Muscle under fat looks more toned or firm or whatever term you're happy with, than the same amount of fat with less muscle under it. There is less jiggle (why would anyone want NO jiggle??). When not eating at a deficit, women who work hard gain muscle under their fat.
People on this site talk a lot about skinny fat (healthy body weight, unhealthy body fat%) but there is little mention of the opposite - overweight with healthy body fat%.
Actually, the women in the photos have no visible muscle whatsoever, and they would not likely be considered toned by most people. The OP wants to stop being "jiggly".
As I said, I can't see the photos, but visible muscle is not what I was describing. I'm talking about muscle hidden under fat, that makes the fat more firm.0 -
The first woman has great genetics. The second is photoshopped. I would not consider either to be "toned" but it's a very subjective word.
It's important too not to compare yourself to photos/paintings. Things like pose, lighting, and photoshop/artistic license can cover over a multitude of cellulite/jiggle/flab etc. But there are women who just have awesome fat distribution and less jiggle due to genetics.0 -
I know exactly what you mean, OP. I see a lot of women carrying more weight than I do, and they look curvy and terrific. If I carry extra weight, I don't get that cute, curvy, hourglass look- I get a belly and a muffin top. I think a lot of it is youth plus genetics, as others have mentioned.0
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which is also not applicable to either of the women posted.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »OP, the links won't work for me but I think I know what you are saying and the difference is muscle. Muscle under fat looks more toned or firm or whatever term you're happy with, than the same amount of fat with less muscle under it. There is less jiggle (why would anyone want NO jiggle??). When not eating at a deficit, women who work hard gain muscle under their fat.
People on this site talk a lot about skinny fat (healthy body weight, unhealthy body fat%) but there is little mention of the opposite - overweight with healthy body fat%.
Actually, the women in the photos have no visible muscle whatsoever, and they would not likely be considered toned by most people. The OP wants to stop being "jiggly".
As I said, I can't see the photos, but visible muscle is not what I was describing. I'm talking about muscle hidden under fat, that makes the fat more firm.
And I wouldn't really say it makes the fat more firm-it makes the whole body more firm- but not the fat itself. it's just fat. Fat is fat. oh new hot button topid- is fat really just fat!?!?!?!
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Muscle tone from the medical dictionary:Also termed tonus; the normal state of balanced tension in the tissues of the body, especially the muscles.
1. The internal state of muscle-fiber tension within individual muscles and muscle groups.
2. Degree of muscle tension or resistance during rest or in response to stretching.
The term is used loosely to describe somebody whose muscle are defined and can be seen under the skin. These women look fairly healthy but they don't seem to actually work out much. You could probably obtain that look through only dieting. They are what some call "skinny fat" which is pretty much not necessarily overweight but with higher body fat %. If you want "muscle tone" a trip to the weight rooms is in order.0 -
which is also not applicable to either of the women posted.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »OP, the links won't work for me but I think I know what you are saying and the difference is muscle. Muscle under fat looks more toned or firm or whatever term you're happy with, than the same amount of fat with less muscle under it. There is less jiggle (why would anyone want NO jiggle??). When not eating at a deficit, women who work hard gain muscle under their fat.
People on this site talk a lot about skinny fat (healthy body weight, unhealthy body fat%) but there is little mention of the opposite - overweight with healthy body fat%.
Actually, the women in the photos have no visible muscle whatsoever, and they would not likely be considered toned by most people. The OP wants to stop being "jiggly".
As I said, I can't see the photos, but visible muscle is not what I was describing. I'm talking about muscle hidden under fat, that makes the fat more firm.
And I wouldn't really say it makes the fat more firm-it makes the whole body more firm- but not the fat itself. it's just fat. Fat is fat. oh new hot button topid- is fat really just fat!?!?!?!
Ack, not another one of those!
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Well, the second picture you posted was photoshopped and not how a body will naturally look without several pairs of spanx. Look at Kim K. It's all about illusion, squeezing into things with spanx, and Photoshop. Catch her without the spanx and you see all the cellulite the rest of the world has.
But regarding the first one, it's genetics. I see what you're saying. You don't mean "toned" but just smoothly distributed fat. Unfortunately, some people just distribute fat evenly. Others go directly to thighs. Others get a big stomach. Some are blessed with a big butt. When I go up in weight, I just spread evenly. A lot has to do with youth.
And you're also not seeing these people naked. Clothes on someone with a good distribution of fat can be very deceiving, I know personally. Don't focus on what you see in others, because it's only what you eye sees at that moment and not reality. Just work hard and make yourself the best you.0
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