Male body pressure becoming the same as women?
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The more you try to do - the more average you get at all those things.
So your options are: do nothing- be less than average at everything
So either chose to be okay at all the things- be really good at nothing.
Be really good at something- and average at almost everything else.
It seems to me that some would prefer to use that reality as a reason to not even try.
Again, accepting and celebrating mediocrity, which is something I don't even want to understand.
Of course this will sound horrible but... there's a reason I don't spin my own yarn to use when I knit. I pay someone to do that, because regardless of quality, I have other more important things to spend my time on, selectively allowing other things to fall by the wayside.
In accordance with reasonability and logic.
I am truly saddened that I shall never be an expert in 19th century french poetry though. I can only imagine how many hearts I could steal with that knowledge. lol.0 -
cliffodom1 wrote: »Men are not objectified because women don' t care what men look like...mostly. If you are way extreme like weigh 80 pounds or 300 pounds you will have a problem getting a woman but if you are moderately slobby you can get any woman on the planet.
Hmmm I'm not sure "ANY women on the planet" (I have to assume there are some out there who feels like physical appearance is there #1 above all else and wont budge on it.)
However, what you said is true for most the women I've known in my life. Physical appearance isn't really #1. Most the gals I know didn't even marry their physical "type." There were other factors that made their mate attractive to them.
I consider myself lucky. When I met my husband he was pretty overweight and that really played no factor into me being attracted to him or not, I was very attracted to him from the start. He continued to gain weight over the first part of our marriage (as did I a little) and it still didn't have an effect my attraction to him, however it did start to effect other things such as physical activities I liked to do but he couldn't due to his knees. About 3 years ago he decided enough was enough and he lost nearly 140 lbs and is now like, whoa....smoking hot and is full of energy. We can now do all the things we love and sometimes I have trouble keeping up with him! He honestly looks younger than the day we met. I feel blessed to be with a guy who seriously gets better with age (not just physically either.) It inspires me to do the same for him and myself
Wow. Sappy I am.0 -
and size don't matter.
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None of what you asked was relevant, but if you read back, you'll see discussion where someone said it was too hard to be anything but mediocre. It was a little sad.
For many people, that's true. It's a myth we tell ourselves that everybody can be really good at something meaningful.
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No, but I do like the written example of defeatism and fatalism.None of what you asked was relevant, but if you read back, you'll see discussion where someone said it was too hard to be anything but mediocre. It was a little sad.
For many people, that's true. It's a myth we tell ourselves that everybody can be really good at something meaningful.
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sklarbodds wrote: »
Not every day you see a Titian reference on a MFP forumFunnily enough... I did my dissertation on exactly this subject about 7 years ago! About how men are beginning to have just as much of a rough time with the media as women are.
as always... lets just blame the media for everything. lol
I wonder what people 500+ years ago blamed it on. "Damn you, Titian, and your unrealistic expectations of women!" Although I would say that male expectations throughout art history have been way more OTT than they have been for women, because you know... Greek sculpture/painting and the like.
I personally think there's SOMETHING to it, but the author kind of implies that it's equal which I don't necessarily believe. Or should I say the standard may be equally impossible, but the pressure to obtain it isn't the same. Women can be shamed if they don't meet a certain standard (unfortunately) and from a society standpoint their worth is tied more to their looks than men.
Yes, only if they want/choose to be.
Whiny men are now joining whiny women?
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sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
Well you are clearly going to know more than I would what single people in your area are looking for. I've been married for 17 years and with my husband for 25 so I've never really dated and if I had, it would have been long enough ago that my data would be outdated.
Out of curiosity, do you find it's the same with regular offline dating as it is with online dating, as far as automatic disqualification goes?
That's a very good question and I'd say yes and no. In some ways it's worse (your photos might be your best foot forward), but in others it's not. For instance, on my profile I'm 5'9"...in real life I'm closer to 5'9.5" and if a girl has a 5'10" requirement, she's probably giving me a shot in RL, but not online because I didn't meet her height requirements (mostly you're skimming the profile and hitting 'next' when you see something you missed).
Of course, I would actually say that online dating is generally that. How many times have you heard a bride or groom say, "She's not what I thought I would like, but now that she's in my life I can't live without her"...etc...etc. With online dating, you filter your results based on what you'd think you'd like and more than likely miss out on something that could be great.
Not to mention, the other side of it is most don't want to commit. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, "I think it's just best for me to date a bunch of guys for a while and see what I want". Having multiple people that you're dating in my experience means you're not giving any one of them a real chance (when I first started dating, I dated multiple people at a time and realized I wasn't giving anyone a fair shot).
Hahah and here I'm thinking "The only reason I went online is because I filtered out all the in-real-life guys (that I felt I had access to)". So the guys online had way MORE of a chance regardless how many I passed over. Plus I was more likely to say "Huh, that photo sucks. It can't be representative so I'll meet him anyway". I might have streamlined the process a bit in terms of what was important to me though - same religion, puts in enough effort to have a reliable job, ... etc... things that are very personal and specific to each individual. If I'd gone on a date with a guy and found out they didn't mesh with what I wanted, then I would have not seen him again anyway.
I do kind of agree with the whole dating more than one guy at a time thing though. You always have this nagging about the other guys at the back of your mind. But at the same time, to devote attention to each one individually might make you miss out on the perfect guy simply because the overall pace of online dating is faster than IRL (for lack of a better term) dating... so you kind of have to do what everyone else is doing.
Wowo... I just realized how off topic my response is... but I'm gonna hit post anyway since I spent time typing it.0 -
dating with a stable is a smart invesment in effort maximization.0
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I said the same (though not as concisely). Realism ftw.
You, I like.0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
Why do you care if they care? Men don't need to know what I own/what my net worth is - I'd rather they appreciated my shoes than quizzed me about my finances.
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Why am I not surprised that the article is written by a feminist mangina.
"Despite what we tell ourselves, the male beauty standard isn’t about what women think men should look like; it’s brought onto us by other men."
Yep, that's our fault too, guys, along with seemingly everything else in this *kitten* up world.
So, seriously, how many of you guys are going to the gym and working hard to look good because of other men? How many of you guys are at the gym thinking, 'man, gotta keep at it or I'll be embarrassed the next time some movie star posts something on twitter?'
On the other hand, how many of you guys keep pushing yourself based on a fear of being left alone all your life, since you probably can't sit on a bar stool and just have woman after woman offer to buy you drinks? How many of you guys have had to sit around listening to your SO or gal pals swoon mightily over the pics of these guys, consequently being led to ask yourself, "What's wrong with me?" (I quit doing that before even graduating high school because it just seemed rude to my female friends or girlfriend).
How many of you guys have looked at the fact that around 70% of divorces are initiated by women and thought, "I'd better get in shape before she leaves me for someone else more attractive." How many of you guys have seen married women hitting on you (or your wife hitting on another guy) because you (or he) was in better shape than the husband, and ended up reaching the conclusion, "I need to get in better shape!"
I bet the author didn't even bother to ask a handful of his fellow maginas what they thought. I'm surprised he didn't blame the 'patriarchy.'
Sorry, can I ask why you assume that women are leaving their husbands BECAUSE of how their husbands look? 70% of divorces are initiated by women because they want hot husbands? Specifically? Not because they want a husband with a different personality or behaviours?0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »But I decided that being healthy was more important than all of those things.
So, in a sense, I became mediocre at being gluttonous and excelled at health and fitness
You left out opportunity cost, so you also decided that being your definition of healthy was more important than all the other things you could have learned or accomplished using the time you chose to spend being "healthy".
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I feel like either I'm deeply missing your implications- or you don't understand the meaning of irony- because from where I'm sitting- one has nothing to do with the other.0 -
I wouldn't accept that one bit.NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
If you're a leader, you lead others to informed understandings of what you do and what you achieve. Someone can puke a lot and lose weight. Or go on Isagenix, etc etc. It takes work, dedication, ambition, and sacrifice to achieve excellence. The lead in they'd attempt would be weight, because not everyone else understands those other qualities. As a leader though, it will be your job to correct them.
you know- I had the same reaction- I kind of went- what a great opportunity to say yes- you to can do this with hard work-and while it's important to me- it needed to be done and really what my successes in life have been are X Y and Z.
And continue to steer the conversation/moment/whatever to that. if you're a leader- than lead and don't let someone pigeon hole you about your weight- clearly you are successful- so don't let them drive you.0 -
I wouldn't accept that one bit.NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
If you're a leader, you lead others to informed understandings of what you do and what you achieve. Someone can puke a lot and lose weight. Or go on Isagenix, etc etc. It takes work, dedication, ambition, and sacrifice to achieve excellence. The lead in they'd attempt would be weight, because not everyone else understands those other qualities. As a leader though, it will be your job to correct them.
you know- I had the same reaction- I kind of went- what a great opportunity to say yes- you to can do this with hard work-and while it's important to me- it needed to be done and really what my successes in life have been are X Y and Z.
And continue to steer the conversation/moment/whatever to that. if you're a leader- than lead and don't let someone pigeon hole you about your weight- clearly you are successful- so don't let them drive you.
I don't let people say what I can or cannot do, but I mean Jesus Tapdancing Christ, a bestselling novelist had the lead on her obit about her looks and weight. Didn't stop her from writing the novels, but the last things written about her were still that she was fat. If you think that's not indicative of severe wrongs in our cultural mindset, I can't help you.
I did not become scrappy as hell in a vacuum, friends.
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I guess that is the flip side of the infatuation that a lot of women have with "bad boys", bypassing the ones that are responsible, reliable, have their own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do in order to chase the dysfunctional womanizing dirtbag rebel that just has that certain "aura" that seems to make them drop their panties, lol.
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I guess that is the flip side of the infatuation that a lot of women have with "bad boys", bypassing the ones that are responsible, reliable, have their own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do in order to chase the dysfunctional womanizing dirtbag rebel that just has that certain "aura" that seems to make them drop their panties, lol.
Yep, but if I were a dude, I'd be such a catch! LOL0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I guess that is the flip side of the infatuation that a lot of women have with "bad boys", bypassing the ones that are responsible, reliable, have their own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do in order to chase the dysfunctional womanizing dirtbag rebel that just has that certain "aura" that seems to make them drop their panties, lol.NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I guess that is the flip side of the infatuation that a lot of women have with "bad boys", bypassing the ones that are responsible, reliable, have their own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do in order to chase the dysfunctional womanizing dirtbag rebel that just has that certain "aura" that seems to make them drop their panties, lol.
There are very good evolutionary reasons for that sort of preference. When you're younger, it's the "bad boys" that provide a better (not the only, but better) chance at a quantum leap improvement in status/outcomes. As we age, that opportunity diminishes, so the balance shifts to the ones that fit in better, are more stable.
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Wrong.crystalflame wrote: »How is that giving anyone an excuse? I also stated that people should be the best they can be, working with what they've been given. Unfortunately, the media doesn't portray that as good enough.
Nice try though.
I don't appreciate the condescending attitude. If I'm wrong, tell me your opinion why I am. I'd think you'd want to be the best at discussing a given topic as you can be, after all.
I'm speaking from my perspective, which is admittedly biased by having male friends who struggle with being taken seriously or viewed as desirable because of their appearance. They have to work much harder when it comes to dating, job interviews, and even making friends because of the snap judgments people tend to make. They've told me how when it comes to online dating, they feel women are looking for celebrity attractiveness and they don't stack up. Doesn't stop them from trying, but they haven't had success. One of them had a solid resume, but it took 10 job interviews before he finally got hired somewhere. These guys are very talented, work hard at their jobs, are financially stable, well-traveled... but it doesn't seem to matter to most people. One in particular is an intelligent, well-spoken, well-dressed lawyer, but he's short and has a glass eye. People remember and talk about the glass eye more than anything.
I see the same type of man in movies, ads, and TV over and over. Movies use trick shots to make Tom Cruise taller. Overweight men and people with disabilities are pitied or comedic, but rarely sexy. There are exceptions, of course, but they're a very small percentage.
Once again, I'm not condoning aiming for mediocrity. I'm saying, from my perspective, there is a specific definition of masculine put forth by the media and embraced by society, and those who don't fit that mold are viewed, subconsciously or not, as less-than.
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