Male body pressure becoming the same as women?
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Are there really lots of (straight) women out there getting in shape and trying to look good primarily for other women?? I have never experienced that.
I don't do it for guys either though. In fact, my guy likes me on the meatier than I prefer myself be. Honestly, it's really always been about me and what I think is beautiful and how I feel good about myself.
Now that said, I haven't always had the healthiest or the most realistic of ideas of what "attractive" is for myself and I do notice what I find attractive correlates with what's been shoved in my face as "ideal" since I was a little girl. It's still got little do with the opposite sex or even the same sex though. *shrug*0 -
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Joking aside, I have come to find a lot of folks are on medically needed test, which is interesting. It makes me wonder if a lot of the weaknesses we see within ourselves can have a hormone based explanation, and could be resolved with therapy.
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
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Joking aside, I have come to find a lot of folks are on medically needed test, which is interesting. It makes me wonder if a lot of the weaknesses we see within ourselves can have a hormone based explanation, and could be resolved with therapy.
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
....Or another example: Being condescending to people who don't think exactly like you and instead, just except the possibility there are other realities outside of your own.
Maybe I missed something in this thread a while back, but why assume that all people who are effected by societal pressure aren't trying to be the best the can be already?0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Interesting article claiming that today's body standards for men are equally as impossible and damaging as women's.
Emotional pressure on men has traditionally came in other forms (ie, "success"). Adding the modern twist of body shaming is just another dagger into our gender's collective soul.
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TRUTH. It's impossible to be the best at everything. And there is almost always someone who will be better.0 -
Don't you know- women are experts about social pressures....
and women know everything- haven't you learned this yet??
jack of all trades- master of none.We are all most mediocre in most of our attributes.
The more you try to do - the more average you get at all those things.
So your options are: do nothing- be less than average at everything
So either chose to be okay at all the things- be really good at nothing.
Be really good at something- and average at almost everything else.0 -
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL0 -
Love the bolded part.
Because what you are is often what you choose to be. In other words, when people say, "I just don't have time to work out" what they're really saying is "I spend my time doing things that I think are more important that I give my energy to". It's not a bad thing, per se, it's just prioritizing something different. That can be kids, work, Netflix, sports, hobbies, porn, sleep, whatever....but when it comes down to it, it's always about choosing something else over fitness and health.
And here's the totality of it, that's their choice. I personally made some choices to be more fit. I simply prioritized working out over a couple hours sleep in the morning and sacrificed some of the time I would spend watching TV at night. I prioritized healthy food over convenience and in some cases pleasure (french fries, pizza and wings....argh!!!!). But I decided that being healthy was more important than all of those things.
So, in a sense, I became mediocre at being gluttonous and excelled at health and fitness
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I thought we talked about this, you're too tall for heels
As a guy who's dating, I would consider smart, successful, stable as HUGE positives. But it's not exclusively that. You would have to still look good and take care of yourself. Just like if you looked crazy hot but held a conversation like a fence post and lived on welfare and had no ambition....no thanks.0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
I thought we talked about this, you're too tall for heels
As a guy who's dating, I would consider smart, successful, stable as HUGE positives. But it's not exclusively that. You would have to still look good and take care of yourself. Just like if you looked crazy hot but held a conversation like a fence post and lived on welfare and had no ambition....no thanks.
SHUSH you. I will wear what I want.
So you're saying I must look like a slob....got it.
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Men are not objectified because women don' t care what men look like...mostly. If you are way extreme like weigh 80 pounds or 300 pounds you will have a problem getting a woman but if you are moderately slobby you can get any woman on the planet.0
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Joking aside, I have come to find a lot of folks are on medically needed test, which is interesting. It makes me wonder if a lot of the weaknesses we see within ourselves can have a hormone based explanation, and could be resolved with therapy.
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
....Or another example: Being condescending to people who don't think exactly like you and instead, just except the possibility there are other realities outside of your own.
Maybe I missed something in this thread a while back, but why assume that all people who are effected by societal pressure aren't trying to be the best the can be already?
None of what you asked was relevant, but if you read back, you'll see discussion where someone said it was too hard to be anything but mediocre. It was a little sad.
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I wouldn't accept that one bit.NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
If you're a leader, you lead others to informed understandings of what you do and what you achieve. Someone can puke a lot and lose weight. Or go on Isagenix, etc etc. It takes work, dedication, ambition, and sacrifice to achieve excellence. The lead in they'd attempt would be weight, because not everyone else understands those other qualities. As a leader though, it will be your job to correct them.
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The more you try to do - the more average you get at all those things.
So your options are: do nothing- be less than average at everything
So either chose to be okay at all the things- be really good at nothing.
Be really good at something- and average at almost everything else.
It seems to me that some would prefer to use that reality as a reason to not even try.
Again, accepting and celebrating mediocrity, which is something I don't even want to understand.
Of course this will sound horrible but... there's a reason I don't spin my own yarn to use when I knit. I pay someone to do that, because regardless of quality, I have other more important things to spend my time on, selectively allowing other things to fall by the wayside.
In accordance with reasonability and logic.
I am truly saddened that I shall never be an expert in 19th century french poetry though. I can only imagine how many hearts I could steal with that knowledge. lol.0 -
cliffodom1 wrote: »Men are not objectified because women don' t care what men look like...mostly. If you are way extreme like weigh 80 pounds or 300 pounds you will have a problem getting a woman but if you are moderately slobby you can get any woman on the planet.
Hmmm I'm not sure "ANY women on the planet" (I have to assume there are some out there who feels like physical appearance is there #1 above all else and wont budge on it.)
However, what you said is true for most the women I've known in my life. Physical appearance isn't really #1. Most the gals I know didn't even marry their physical "type." There were other factors that made their mate attractive to them.
I consider myself lucky. When I met my husband he was pretty overweight and that really played no factor into me being attracted to him or not, I was very attracted to him from the start. He continued to gain weight over the first part of our marriage (as did I a little) and it still didn't have an effect my attraction to him, however it did start to effect other things such as physical activities I liked to do but he couldn't due to his knees. About 3 years ago he decided enough was enough and he lost nearly 140 lbs and is now like, whoa....smoking hot and is full of energy. We can now do all the things we love and sometimes I have trouble keeping up with him! He honestly looks younger than the day we met. I feel blessed to be with a guy who seriously gets better with age (not just physically either.) It inspires me to do the same for him and myself
Wow. Sappy I am.0 -
and size don't matter. 0
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None of what you asked was relevant, but if you read back, you'll see discussion where someone said it was too hard to be anything but mediocre. It was a little sad.
For many people, that's true. It's a myth we tell ourselves that everybody can be really good at something meaningful.
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No, but I do like the written example of defeatism and fatalism.None of what you asked was relevant, but if you read back, you'll see discussion where someone said it was too hard to be anything but mediocre. It was a little sad.
For many people, that's true. It's a myth we tell ourselves that everybody can be really good at something meaningful.
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sklarbodds wrote: »
Not every day you see a Titian reference on a MFP forumFunnily enough... I did my dissertation on exactly this subject about 7 years ago! About how men are beginning to have just as much of a rough time with the media as women are.
as always... lets just blame the media for everything. lol
I wonder what people 500+ years ago blamed it on. "Damn you, Titian, and your unrealistic expectations of women!" Although I would say that male expectations throughout art history have been way more OTT than they have been for women, because you know... Greek sculpture/painting and the like.
I personally think there's SOMETHING to it, but the author kind of implies that it's equal which I don't necessarily believe. Or should I say the standard may be equally impossible, but the pressure to obtain it isn't the same. Women can be shamed if they don't meet a certain standard (unfortunately) and from a society standpoint their worth is tied more to their looks than men.
Yes, only if they want/choose to be.
Whiny men are now joining whiny women?
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sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
Well you are clearly going to know more than I would what single people in your area are looking for. I've been married for 17 years and with my husband for 25 so I've never really dated and if I had, it would have been long enough ago that my data would be outdated.
Out of curiosity, do you find it's the same with regular offline dating as it is with online dating, as far as automatic disqualification goes?
That's a very good question and I'd say yes and no. In some ways it's worse (your photos might be your best foot forward), but in others it's not. For instance, on my profile I'm 5'9"...in real life I'm closer to 5'9.5" and if a girl has a 5'10" requirement, she's probably giving me a shot in RL, but not online because I didn't meet her height requirements (mostly you're skimming the profile and hitting 'next' when you see something you missed).
Of course, I would actually say that online dating is generally that. How many times have you heard a bride or groom say, "She's not what I thought I would like, but now that she's in my life I can't live without her"...etc...etc. With online dating, you filter your results based on what you'd think you'd like and more than likely miss out on something that could be great.
Not to mention, the other side of it is most don't want to commit. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, "I think it's just best for me to date a bunch of guys for a while and see what I want". Having multiple people that you're dating in my experience means you're not giving any one of them a real chance (when I first started dating, I dated multiple people at a time and realized I wasn't giving anyone a fair shot).
Hahah and here I'm thinking "The only reason I went online is because I filtered out all the in-real-life guys (that I felt I had access to)". So the guys online had way MORE of a chance regardless how many I passed over. Plus I was more likely to say "Huh, that photo sucks. It can't be representative so I'll meet him anyway". I might have streamlined the process a bit in terms of what was important to me though - same religion, puts in enough effort to have a reliable job, ... etc... things that are very personal and specific to each individual. If I'd gone on a date with a guy and found out they didn't mesh with what I wanted, then I would have not seen him again anyway.
I do kind of agree with the whole dating more than one guy at a time thing though. You always have this nagging about the other guys at the back of your mind. But at the same time, to devote attention to each one individually might make you miss out on the perfect guy simply because the overall pace of online dating is faster than IRL (for lack of a better term) dating... so you kind of have to do what everyone else is doing.
Wowo... I just realized how off topic my response is... but I'm gonna hit post anyway since I spent time typing it.0 -
dating with a stable is a smart invesment in effort maximization.0
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I said the same (though not as concisely). Realism ftw.
You, I like.0 -
NoelFigart1 wrote: »
For example, whinging about societal pressure, instead of just trying to be the best one can be.
Okay, I have had a significant amount of personal and professional successes in my life. I'm a leader in my community and... Well, I have a lot of experience under my belt. I have big goals still left to achieve, only one of which is even peripherally about my body shape.
You know what I'm going to get the most praise and approbation for?
It will be about reducing the size of my butt. If I achieve one of my big goals, my WEIGHT LOSS is going to be the damn lead for it in the local paper.
THAT will define "the best I can be" in most people's eyes. You bloody well BET I resent the living soul that.
Yep, it's disgusting, ain't it? Most men don't care that I have my own place, a good career, and make more $$ than they do. It's all about how I look in those heels. LOL
Why do you care if they care? Men don't need to know what I own/what my net worth is - I'd rather they appreciated my shoes than quizzed me about my finances.
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