Male body pressure becoming the same as women?
Replies
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »This is something I've seen a lot when stumbling into the bodybuilding.com misc forum (clearly not my demographic but fascinating to read, like watching a National Geographic special on a different culture.) There's a ton of focus/worry/gnashing of teeth over height and hair. A lot of it is phrased in a "will girls like me" way and it's kind of sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well.
Yeah, but that's like judging all of America solely based on watching Jersey Shore.
Well, if you ignore the misogynist, homophobic crap of /misc. Oh, wait...
Not sure how you leaped to conclusion that I was judging when I was simply commenting on what I see in one specific forum. Clearly not all of America (or any other place) is going to represented by that forum, much like the opinions in this thread aren't representing all of America, Canada, etc.
"sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well."
using /misc as a reference to other than the cesspool of the bottom feeders is probably a mistake.
BTW, is "judging" now a bad word? Not to be used?
Replace it with "comparing" in my sentence - maybe it won't feel so hair raising then.
I wasn't saying you were judgy - we know on MFP (and planet fitness) that is so wrong - I meant that the demographics of /misc gives you no data on 99.999999999% of the rest of men.
You aware, m8?0 -
I don’t think men care so much about each others’ body types or appearance (within reason), but rather, what they do. In alpha-male days of my past, the standard was to out-drink everyone (only whiskey would do, that is a man’s drink), out shoot on the weapon range and march farther and with more weight in your rucksack in the Army, listen to more hardcore music, take the least amount of *kitten* from others, engage in the more dangerous hobbies (sky diving, scuba diving, etc.), get the best looking women, and other predictable macho bullsh*t. So if you are Johnny Bada**, by these standards, the other guys didn’t care if you have visible abs or a V-shaped lower torso, manscape appropriately, can pull of yoga poses, can grow a fancy beard, etc.0
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A couple of random thoughts in no particular order;
1. Michaelangelo's David - the male ideal has been around a while - how many young males aspired to that definition of perfection throughout the ages?
2. Judging - its what human's do. Would I mate with that person? Would that person mate with me? Is that person as beautiful as my spouse? Do I look as good as that or would I look as good wearing, driving, owning etc. that?
3. Power structure: its how the world works, as someone who has hit a glass ceiling in a number of companies, for various reasons - I'm out spoken, I'm funny (yes thats threatening to some in power) and I double barrelled my last name with that of my spouse when we got married - so I must have handed her my cojones - right?
4. At 53 - I do what I do for me and my gratification - and I don't mean shallow immediate gratification, I mean my feelings of self worth.
5. As usual I agree with dbmata - mediocrity is not acceptable - and it doesn't mean spending hours in the gym - it's being the best you that you can be. The best husband, the best father, the best employee, the best leader so when you look in the mirror - you like the person that is looking back.
No regrets.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »This is something I've seen a lot when stumbling into the bodybuilding.com misc forum (clearly not my demographic but fascinating to read, like watching a National Geographic special on a different culture.) There's a ton of focus/worry/gnashing of teeth over height and hair. A lot of it is phrased in a "will girls like me" way and it's kind of sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well.
Yeah, but that's like judging all of America solely based on watching Jersey Shore.
Well, if you ignore the misogynist, homophobic crap of /misc. Oh, wait...
Not sure how you leaped to conclusion that I was judging when I was simply commenting on what I see in one specific forum. Clearly not all of America (or any other place) is going to represented by that forum, much like the opinions in this thread aren't representing all of America, Canada, etc.
"sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well."
using /misc as a reference to other than the cesspool of the bottom feeders is probably a mistake.
BTW, is "judging" now a bad word? Not to be used?
Replace it with "comparing" in my sentence - maybe it won't feel so hair raising then.
I wasn't saying you were judgy - we know on MFP (and planet fitness) that is so wrong - I meant that the demographics of /misc gives you no data on 99.999999999% of the rest of men.
You aware, m8?
Oof, I was being unclear. Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
*In general, and based on my husband since he's pretty much the only male with whom I socialize, I wouldn't think that the majority of men are feeling this pressure or, if they are aware of it they don't care.
Judgy--not a bad word. Life is a series of judgments, there's no way around it. (But we're all gonna make it, right?)0 -
goldthistime wrote: »Not to mention manscaping.
My body is more untamed jungle and is staying that way.
Mine gets a little untamed at times too. Wait is that TMI? On a serious note, I didn't read the article because the quote was too whiny for my taste. I think men and women have always had a certain body image society deemed appropriate. The standards have changed throughout time, but that's about it. You either care about the ideal image and the way it's achieved, or you don't and strive for your own desired body and goals (and live happily ever after).0 -
Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
Well you are clearly going to know more than I would what single people in your area are looking for. I've been married for 17 years and with my husband for 25 so I've never really dated and if I had, it would have been long enough ago that my data would be outdated.
Out of curiosity, do you find it's the same with regular offline dating as it is with online dating, as far as automatic disqualification goes?
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sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?
Sometimes, but not usually.
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I'm 5'9", am married to someone who is 5'9", have dated guys as short as 5'7" and would probably go shorter provided he wasn't much thinner than me.
I also find the height requirement that a lot of women have a little silly. Only 15% of American men are over 6'. What are the chances of finding a good guy that you (hypothetical woman with 6' height requirement) get along with, are attracted to, have chemistry with, etc, in only that 15%? You'd have a much better chance if you broaden the selection pool. Finding someone you want to and actually can spend the rest of your life with (if that is your goal) is hard.0 -
BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »I'm 5'9", am married to someone who is 5'9", have dated guys as short as 5'7" and would probably go shorter provided he wasn't much thinner than me.
I also find the height requirement that a lot of women have a little silly. Only 15% of American men are over 6'. What are the chances of finding a good guy that you (hypothetical woman with 6' height requirement) get along with, are attracted to, have chemistry with, etc, in only that 15%? You'd have a much better chance if you broaden the selection pool. Finding someone you want to and actually can spend the rest of your life with (if that is your goal) is hard.
My preference is 5'9" or taller. When I wear anything with heels, I'm close to or actually 6' myself. And I was with a guy who was 5'9" for 5 years and engaged to him at one point.0 -
Incidentally, all the men in my family are 6' or taller. And one of my aunts is 6' tall as well.0
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My big pet peeve is hearing about how unrealistic Barbie is. Of course she's impossible to live up to, but have any of the people complaining ever looked at a G.I. Joe? I grew up with He-man and Lion-O in my toy chest. That's every bit as unrealistic as Barbie.0
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I figure it's just something that we're more aware of. Disordered eating/self-images issues have never been gender-exclusive, but I think more guys are willing to admit these struggles.0
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My preference is 5'9" or taller. When I wear anything with heels, I'm close to or actually 6' myself. And I was with a guy who was 5'9" for 5 years and engaged to him at one point.
At 6'4" I've noticed that girls over about 5'10" will usually give me a shot no matter what, just so that they can wear heals. I dated a girl who was my height for a while, and looking back, I'm not convinced she even liked me. I'm pretty sure we were just going out so she could "stop feeling weird walking around with her boyfriend in public." She mentioned it more than once, and those are her words, not mine.0 -
BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »I'm 5'9", am married to someone who is 5'9", have dated guys as short as 5'7" and would probably go shorter provided he wasn't much thinner than me.
I also find the height requirement that a lot of women have a little silly. Only 15% of American men are over 6'. What are the chances of finding a good guy that you (hypothetical woman with 6' height requirement) get along with, are attracted to, have chemistry with, etc, in only that 15%? You'd have a much better chance if you broaden the selection pool. Finding someone you want to and actually can spend the rest of your life with (if that is your goal) is hard.
Also, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. It's not necessarily a preference you can change.0 -
I wouldn't know. I'm not a guy.0
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FoCoAlphaNerd wrote: »My preference is 5'9" or taller. When I wear anything with heels, I'm close to or actually 6' myself. And I was with a guy who was 5'9" for 5 years and engaged to him at one point.
At 6'4" I've noticed that girls over about 5'10" will usually give me a shot no matter what, just so that they can wear heals. I dated a girl who was my height for a while, and looking back, I'm not convinced she even liked me. I'm pretty sure we were just going out so she could "stop feeling weird walking around with her boyfriend in public." She mentioned it more than once, and those are her words, not mine.
LOL Well, I can say I've never done that, just dated someone because they were tall, even though I didn't like them!0 -
Also, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. It's not necessarily a preference you can change.
Agreed, and I'm not sure I'd want to date a girl who had overcome her lack of attraction towards me. I'm not everyone's type, just like they aren't all mine. I don't need her jaw to hang open every time I walk into a room, but it'd be nice to feel like I was at least somewhere on the positive end of her attraction scale.0 -
LOL Well, I can say I've never done that, just dated someone because they were tall, even though I didn't like them!
Haha, what I always found weird about it, was she was 6'4" at 14 or so. At some point, you'd think you'd get over it. I sort of understand a 5'10" girl being freaked out about it more, since it'd be easy for her to get well into adulthood without dating anyone shorter than her if she didn't want to, whereas my ex really would have had no choice if she didn't want to be mostly celibate.0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
Well you are clearly going to know more than I would what single people in your area are looking for. I've been married for 17 years and with my husband for 25 so I've never really dated and if I had, it would have been long enough ago that my data would be outdated.
Out of curiosity, do you find it's the same with regular offline dating as it is with online dating, as far as automatic disqualification goes?
That's a very good question and I'd say yes and no. In some ways it's worse (your photos might be your best foot forward), but in others it's not. For instance, on my profile I'm 5'9"...in real life I'm closer to 5'9.5" and if a girl has a 5'10" requirement, she's probably giving me a shot in RL, but not online because I didn't meet her height requirements (mostly you're skimming the profile and hitting 'next' when you see something you missed).
Of course, I would actually say that online dating is generally that. How many times have you heard a bride or groom say, "She's not what I thought I would like, but now that she's in my life I can't live without her"...etc...etc. With online dating, you filter your results based on what you'd think you'd like and more than likely miss out on something that could be great.
Not to mention, the other side of it is most don't want to commit. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, "I think it's just best for me to date a bunch of guys for a while and see what I want". Having multiple people that you're dating in my experience means you're not giving any one of them a real chance (when I first started dating, I dated multiple people at a time and realized I wasn't giving anyone a fair shot).
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sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?
Sometimes, but not usually.
Well I appreciate the honest answer 0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
yep and from an evolutionary stand point it makes sense0 -
Body pressure manifests itself differently for men than for women.
You'll never see men openly, and rarely even consciously, judging another based on how he looks but there's usually a distinct correlation between a man's physique and how other men treat him.
It is literally impossible to be the best you that you can be.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre? You really just asked that?
I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
Also, I'm sorry, if you aren't masculine, and don't want to be, you have no right to define for others what masculine is.
You have limited resources available for self-improvement to allocate for different purposes. Reaching full (or near) potential in one area means you have less time and energy to allocate for improvement in another area.
Besides, the real goal is happiness - not excellence - and achievements have diminishing returns after awhile. There exists a point of equilibrium for everyone where you'd be happier vegging out than striving to work harder.
That point is different from person to person but, make no mistake, nobody actually wants to be the best they can be.
As for masculinity, I feel the dude defined it excellently...
ETA:
We bottom feeders now?
Aw fuk bye.0 -
FoCoAlphaNerd wrote: »LOL Well, I can say I've never done that, just dated someone because they were tall, even though I didn't like them!
Haha, what I always found weird about it, was she was 6'4" at 14 or so. At some point, you'd think you'd get over it. I sort of understand a 5'10" girl being freaked out about it more, since it'd be easy for her to get well into adulthood without dating anyone shorter than her if she didn't want to, whereas my ex really would have had no choice if she didn't want to be mostly celibate.
Wow, that must have been hard for her to deal with.
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FoCoAlphaNerd wrote: »Also, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. It's not necessarily a preference you can change.
Agreed, and I'm not sure I'd want to date a girl who had overcome her lack of attraction towards me. I'm not everyone's type, just like they aren't all mine. I don't need her jaw to hang open every time I walk into a room, but it'd be nice to feel like I was at least somewhere on the positive end of her attraction scale.
Agreed!0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?
Sometimes, but not usually.
Well I appreciate the honest answer
Sure, why lie? To make a bunch of strangers on a dieting site think better of me? LOL0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?
Sometimes, but not usually.
Well I appreciate the honest answer
Sure, why lie? To make a bunch of strangers on a dieting site think better of me? LOL
But what about your internet cred? 0 -
This discussion has been closed.
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