help me break free of my food addiction
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srslybritt wrote: »sandman1000 wrote: »and please don't say your addicted, thats just playing the blame game.
The chemicals and drugs that they put in our foods are both poisionus and addicting. Google it.
Your "Google it" suggestion is just way too ironic. Yes, by all means, please Google it. But don't click the first, second, or even the tenth link. A lot of us got where we are by using Google - intelligently. Peer reviewed studies done by reputable, unbiased parties are the way to go. Any other nuggets of wisdom you wish to bestow upon us?
Either way, 99% of the food we eat is loaded with things we should not be putting in our bodies. My "Google it" suggestion may be ironic, but that's something pretty irrelevant to the point that I brought up. I'm not here to argue, what you want to consume is your choice.ETA: On the addiction front, you aren't addicted. You just like it. A lot. Until you are crawling in a dumpster in search for some Ramen, or robbing your friends for money to buy it because you need your fix to feel right, you are not addicted. You just like it. A lot.
I think that is a bit of false equivalency. Food is nearly always readily available, even in dire circumstances. You cannot say the same for illegal drugs.
However, drugs can foster neurochemical reactions which are pleasurable. Food can do the same thing. So when you're addicted to drugs it is more accurate to say that you're addicted to the way your body reacts to the drugs. Why can't you say the same thing about food?
If you are hungry, you can eat any food and not be hungry anymore. You can eat any food and not starve to death.
If you are a heroin addict in withdrawal, you won't get right until you have heroin or an equivalent (such as methadone).
Drug addiction (real drug addiction) become about more than just having a pleasurable reaction. In fact, a lot of drug addicts will tell you the high isn't even that great anymore. It just helps them not be sick. In the case of alcohol, your body becomes so dependent on it that you can actually die from withdrawals, which is why alcoholics should be under the care of a medical professional during the detox phase.
That is true. Remembering that may actually be very helpful when it comes to saying no to bad food. I feel like food addiction may be more along the lines of being addicted to ciggs. The smell and things may trigger the emotional want, but you're not going to die from withdrawal which unfortunately sometimes happens with things like alcohol. It's all emotional
Exactly. I think the reason why people get very specific here about the addiction claim is because calling something an addiction gives it a lot of power. It's better to think of it as an "I want" opposed to an "I need."
I say enjoy your Ramen in small doses if you are personally worried about it. Stock your pantry with other things you would like to try eating. There's so much good food in the world, why limit yourself anyway?
Eat a meatball sub or something.
Hmm..I think I'll have to stop by my favorite sub shop on the way home!
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srslybritt wrote: »sandman1000 wrote: »and please don't say your addicted, thats just playing the blame game.
The chemicals and drugs that they put in our foods are both poisionus and addicting. Google it.
Your "Google it" suggestion is just way too ironic. Yes, by all means, please Google it. But don't click the first, second, or even the tenth link. A lot of us got where we are by using Google - intelligently. Peer reviewed studies done by reputable, unbiased parties are the way to go. Any other nuggets of wisdom you wish to bestow upon us?
Either way, 99% of the food we eat is loaded with things we should not be putting in our bodies. My "Google it" suggestion may be ironic, but that's something pretty irrelevant to the point that I brought up. I'm not here to argue, what you want to consume is your choice.ETA: On the addiction front, you aren't addicted. You just like it. A lot. Until you are crawling in a dumpster in search for some Ramen, or robbing your friends for money to buy it because you need your fix to feel right, you are not addicted. You just like it. A lot.
I think that is a bit of false equivalency. Food is nearly always readily available, even in dire circumstances. You cannot say the same for illegal drugs.
However, drugs can foster neurochemical reactions which are pleasurable. Food can do the same thing. So when you're addicted to drugs it is more accurate to say that you're addicted to the way your body reacts to the drugs. Why can't you say the same thing about food?
If you are hungry, you can eat any food and not be hungry anymore. You can eat any food and not starve to death.
If you are a heroin addict in withdrawal, you won't get right until you have heroin or an equivalent (such as methadone).
Drug addiction (real drug addiction) become about more than just having a pleasurable reaction. In fact, a lot of drug addicts will tell you the high isn't even that great anymore. It just helps them not be sick. In the case of alcohol, your body becomes so dependent on it that you can actually die from withdrawals, which is why alcoholics should be under the care of a medical professional during the detox phase.
That is true. Remembering that may actually be very helpful when it comes to saying no to bad food. I feel like food addiction may be more along the lines of being addicted to ciggs. The smell and things may trigger the emotional want, but you're not going to die from withdrawal which unfortunately sometimes happens with things like alcohol. It's all emotional
I'm not here to argue, either. I'm trying to tell you that - so long as you can maintain moderation - there is nothing wrong with having ramen, a cookie, or a piece of candy once in a while. If you can do that and still be successful and healthy, why wouldn't you want to? I gave you a suggestion back on page two of this thread to add "whole" ingredients to your ramen, similar to what you would find in the "real" stuff they serve you in a restaurant.
As for the "99%" of what we eat is "loaded with" stuff we shouldn't be putting in our bodies - turn over stones on that argument. A little bit of everything, but not a lot of anything (read: moderation) is the way to go. You're going to find evidence on both sides of the street. Just look at the constant switching between eggs, coffee, butter/margarine, and other buzz word-filled foods we're surrounded with.
Edited for grammar0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »sandman1000 wrote: »and please don't say your addicted, thats just playing the blame game.
I have to agree with this. It's an unhealthy mindset to skirt the real issue of not being able to control oneself. I also feel it's a real spit in the face to people who have to battle actual addictions to drugs and harmful substances.
People can be addicted to food. Just like they can be addicted to harmful substances (which food can be when it's over-consumed).
But I do agree that saying one is addicted to a specific food (for example: chocolate chip cookies), that can be a spit in the face.0 -
If you want to gain muscle, eat in a calorie surplus and do a progressive resistance program. Most people trying to gain like to eat what you call "junk" because it is difficult to eat the large volumes of food required to hit a calorie surplus with nutrient dense foods. (Difficult, not impossible.)ceoverturf wrote: »I'm addicted to terrible food. I love fruit and veg, but my intense cravings for things like ramen noodles always takes over and I end up always giving in.
its awful. I need help.
Do they fit into your daily calorie allowance? As long as your overall intake is balanced (you're getting all your protein and fat and vitamins), and the ramen noodles don't put you over your daily calories there is no reason not to enjoy them. To many calories make you gain weight, not a particular food.
Its not so much that they put me over my daily calories, if they did that wouldn't really be a problem anyway because I only weigh 90 pounds. I just want to get away from all the processed foods and have a more clean diet, I don't like eating so many chemicals
Wait a minute...WHAT?
You weigh 90 lbs and you think you're addicted to food?
I think you need more help than this board can provide. Please seek out a local professional dealing with eating disorders. I mean that sincerely - no snark.
I do NOT have an eating disorder. I am naturally very small, a genetic I get from my mom. Is it crazy for me to not want to eat junk? I'm not here to lose weight, I'm here to gain muscle. Everyone assumes that just because I'm small and trying to lead a healthy lifestyle that I have some sort of eating disorder. I can assure you, that's not the case.
^This
It's why peanut butter and avocados exists. Mmmmm. Peanut butter.
I have a single serving container of peanut butter every day with my lunch. A world without peanut butter would be a sad world indeed! Just the thought makes me depressed.
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ETA: On the addiction front, you aren't addicted. You just like it. A lot. Until you are crawling in a dumpster in search for some Ramen, or robbing your friends for money to buy it because you need your fix to feel right, you are not addicted. You just like it. A lot.
I think that is a bit of false equivalency. Food is nearly always readily available, even in dire circumstances. You cannot say the same for illegal drugs.
However, drugs can foster neurochemical reactions which are pleasurable. Food can do the same thing. So when you're addicted to drugs it is more accurate to say that you're addicted to the way your body reacts to the drugs. Why can't you say the same thing about food?
This.
I tend to believe that addiction isn't defined by whether you crawl in a dumpster and rob people, although these actions can be the result of an addiction to a particular substance. Nicotine is highly addictive and very few nicotine-addicted people crawl in dumpsters and rob people to get their fix. But long-time smokers often get diseases that non-smokers don't get, and their quality of life may suffer.
I've noticed that many people on MFP reject the idea that people can be addicted to food. This rejection may have less to do with actual research and more to do with a desire to hold an empowering belief that losing and maintaining weight is purely a matter of habit and self-control.
Whether "food addiction" is or is not real, we might benefit by assessing whether or not conceptualizing ourselves as addicted is helpful.
If I believe that I am addicted to food, what steps should I take to address my addiction? Does the belief that I am addicted empower me to find solutions to my problem?
If I believe that I lack self-control and have poor habits, what should I do next?
OP, whether you are addicted or not, long-term success depends on you finding a way to manage your binge foods. People have offered a lot of suggestions for this including managing your environment. Stay the course until you find what works for you.
I wish you the best!
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Someone suggested fasting to someone with a disordered approach to food?
Oh boy.0 -
Great post upthread, PRMinx!GoPerfectHealth wrote: »I tend to believe that addiction isn't defined by whether you crawl in a dumpster and rob people, although these actions can be the result of an addiction to a particular substance.
I agree. That's more the result of the particular drug being illegal and being far enough down the cycle of addiction to have related financial problems. However, addiction does basically mean putting the substance at the center of your life at the expense of other things that people consider important--friends, family, social ties, job, so on. Very few (not no) fat people do this. (OP, of course, is not even fat.)
Beyond this, what seems to be akin to addiction (although I'm not completely convinced it's the right word) is not "food" but eating--EDs like BED or compulsive overeating probably have similarities, and the key there is that it's NOT simply about the pleasure of a particular food or how good it tastes. Anyone who says that the essence of alcoholism is just that someone really, really enjoys pinot noir is misunderstanding enormously, and that's the analogous comparison.This rejection may have less to do with actual research and more to do with a desire to hold an empowering belief that losing and maintaining weight is purely a matter of habit and self-control.
Eh, if someone wants to join a 12 step program for overeaters, more power to them. It seems to work for some. I do not believe it would be helpful for me in dealing with the reasons that I have tended to gain weight.Whether "food addiction" is or is not real, we might benefit by assessing whether or not conceptualizing ourselves as addicted is helpful.
Completely agree. And I think it's quite counterproductive. That's why I tend to post in these threads.OP, whether you are addicted or not, long-term success depends on you finding a way to manage your binge foods.
She hasn't said she binges. Why do people always jump to the conclusion that someone binges? (Or use "binge" as if it meant "ate a bit more than I intended to" in some cases.)0 -
This thread in regards to food and addiction has been reminding me of this article all morning, so I'm just going to leave this here.
Speaker Shannon, R-Lawton, said "We must encourage able-bodied people to break their addiction to government subsidies and gain self-sufficiency."
http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/0 -
srslybritt wrote: »sandman1000 wrote: »and please don't say your addicted, thats just playing the blame game.
The chemicals and drugs that they put in our foods are both poisionus and addicting. Google it.
Your "Google it" suggestion is just way too ironic. Yes, by all means, please Google it. But don't click the first, second, or even the tenth link. A lot of us got where we are by using Google - intelligently. Peer reviewed studies done by reputable, unbiased parties are the way to go. Any other nuggets of wisdom you wish to bestow upon us?
Either way, 99% of the food we eat is loaded with things we should not be putting in our bodies. My "Google it" suggestion may be ironic, but that's something pretty irrelevant to the point that I brought up. I'm not here to argue, what you want to consume is your choice.
snip snip snip
That is true. Remembering that may actually be very helpful when it comes to saying no to bad food. I feel like food addiction may be more along the lines of being addicted to ciggs. The smell and things may trigger the emotional want, but you're not going to die from withdrawal which unfortunately sometimes happens with things like alcohol. It's all emotional
okay- so here's the thing.
1.) you say you want to put on muscle? yes? the only way to do so is through a calorie surplus. Wander over to the gaining forum- you're going to find 3 things suggested in EVERY.SINGLE.THREAD.
Lift- progressively- use a program.
Eat at a caloire surplus
Be patient.
You'll also see what we suggest to add calories to your day.
pizza
Ice cream
beer
bagels
cream cheese
milk
candy bars
gummy bears
oreos.
Why- because these are all high calorie items that won't leave you feeling overly full. absolutely NO ONE in their right mind who has ever attempted to put on weight will encourage you to eat buckets of chicken and quiona to gain weight. Why? Because few people can eat 4000+ calories of pure chicken rice and veggies. It's exhausting and it hurts. And it sucks.
2.) you need to get over this idea that your "addicted to food"
yes- you're "addicted to food" in the same way your "addicted to air" meaning- without it- you die.
Now- there are no poisonous scary chemicals that are going to make you turn into a 3 eyed green monster. It's fear mongering. Don't get suckered into it. Learn to eat in moderation. If that means you need to back off eating a certain food- or not buy it and only treat yourself to it once a month- do so. But saying food's are poisonous and that your addicted to them is just ridiculous.0 -
People are addicted to misusing the term addiction!0
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Just throwing this out there since everyone's on board the pedantic train again...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/addiction
: a strong and harmful need to regularly have something (such as a drug) or do something (such as gamble)
: an unusually great interest in something or a need to do or have something
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/addiction
1.
a. Physiological or psychological dependence, as on a substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
b. An instance of this: a person with a sex addiction.
2.
a. The condition of being habitually occupied with or involved in something: My addiction to comic books disappeared when graphic novels came out.
b. The condition of using something on a regular or dependent basis: fossil fuel addiction.
c. An instance of one of these conditions: had an addiction to fast cars.
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/addiction
1 a strong need that someone feels to regularly take an illegal or harmful drug
2 a strong need or wish to spend as much time as possible doing a particular activity
Whether people like it or not, the context in which people keep using the dreaded a word is not incorrect. I don't like that the dictionary has redefined "literally" to mean "figuratively," but complaining about it isn't going to change it. Language evolves, this is simply one more example.
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OP can speak to she feels that "binge foods" is an accurate description for the foods she refers to.
OP is welcome to choose another term if she feels it is appropriate.
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Oh, good. I didn't get to address that before because the thread was closed.
People use "addiction" in a non serious way all the time. "I'm addicted to comic books" is a good example (as was my own usage). But inherent in that is that it's jokey--the person does not actually think she is suffering from an addiction to comic books analogous in any way to a heroin (or even a nicotine) addiction.
Thus, it's obviously misused if the person indicates clearly that they mean in a clinical kind of way but the explanation is "I just really really like it!" If it weren't for this obvious confusion (demonstrated by the unending posts about sugar and cocaine), I would not care any more than I care if someone claims she is addicted to shoes or watching Scandal.
Also, its misused in the usage AsaThorsWoman noted, obviously, in a way that is clearly intended to be insulting.
It's like how "processed" in these parts (when used by some) just means "bad," kind of like how some politicians like to use the term "socialist." I am going to give up socialist foods starting today.0 -
I haven't been condescending in the slightest.
And I most certainly haven't ever told anyone they suck at life for enjoying a meal out.
All I said was that food is not proven to be scientifically addictive in the way that some drugs are. It's a willpower problem (that we all have to conquer in our own way).
I said that willpower is a muscle worth exercising. The goal for everyone should be that someday they can be around all sorts of food without feeling anxious about it - or like they are cheating or failing if they have a treat.
I think it takes willpower to be able to have something you love, like Ramen, and be able to fit it into your macros for the day either by portion size or because you planned around it.
I said willpower is as important when you fall off the wagon (to get back on it) as it is to never fall off. I said that it takes willpower to do all sorts of things, including getting to the gym.
This is not being condescending. This is understanding that treats can be a healthy part of an overall diet and that, if you have a bad day, you can get right back on track the next day.
This is being realistic. No one should have to live in a bubble to "protect" themselves from temptation. If that's what you want to do because you have to, then so be it. But I, personally, don't think that's the only way to achieve success.
I believe you can go out and eat a meatball sub.
I believe you can decide whether or not the meatball sub will fit into your macros that day and, if it does, you have met your goal. If it doesn't, then make it up another day if it's something you want.
Either way, I believe that you can enjoy a meatball sub without guilt.
I especially believe that making a choice to have a meatball sub on occasion does not mean you "suck at life."
If you take offense to this, then it says more about you than it does about me.
This would be a great post if it wasn't just a strawman argument. For the record I never said there was anything wrong with moderation, enjoying a meal out, cheat meals, treats, etc. Nor do I believe that depriving yourself of the foods you love is good idea. You're just taking what I said out of context.
Not keeping "trigger foods" around your house is not synonymous with "living in a bubble." You can still eat them, just don't keep tons of them lying around tempting you. And you can still enjoy a meal out when you want to as well. BUT, when you just want to eat healthy and don't have time to cook then why make things hard on yourself?
I will agree with that willpower is definitely like a muscle. But it's a muscle that gets fatigued. If you rely on it too much it will eventually fatigue and fail you, which is exactly why the vast majority of diets end in long term failure. People achieve short term results by relying on high motivation and willpower. But eventually those wane and if they haven't established healthy habits the weight just comes right back.0 -
sandman1000 wrote: »and please don't say your addicted, thats just playing the blame game.
The chemicals and drugs that they put in our foods are both poisonous and addicting. Google it.
This is not true. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to show that Ramen is poisonous or addicting. Just because it shows up on Google, doesn't mean it's true. There are far greater scientific minds on here than mine, so I will leave this debate to those who can explain it better.
ETA: On the addiction front, you aren't addicted. You just like it. A lot. Until you are crawling in a dumpster in search for some Ramen, or robbing your friends for money to buy it because you need your fix to feel right, you are not addicted. You just like it. A lot.
If loving ramen is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, good. I didn't get to address that before because the thread was closed.
People use "addiction" in a non serious way all the time. "I'm addicted to comic books" is a good example (as was my own usage). But inherent in that is that it's jokey--the person does not actually think she is suffering from an addiction to comic books analogous in any way to a heroin (or even a nicotine) addiction.
Thus, it's obviously misused if the person indicates clearly that they mean in a clinical kind of way but the explanation is "I just really really like it!" If it weren't for this obvious confusion (demonstrated by the unending posts about sugar and cocaine), I would not care any more than I care if someone claims she is addicted to shoes or watching Scandal.
Also, its misused in the usage AsaThorsWoman noted, obviously, in a way that is clearly intended to be insulting.
It's like how "processed" in these parts (when used by some) just means "bad," kind of like how some politicians like to use the term "socialist." I am going to give up socialist foods starting today.
Those definitions don't require joking, though. Someone can refer to or think of something as an addiction without it being hyperbole. Addiction to fossil fuel isn't an exaggeration, it's a description of a real problem, on a large scale, usually, but if someone says they are going solar or biking because they're unhappy with fossil fuel addiction, nobody argues DSM with them. Someone can have a constant want or habit, identify it (correctly), and want to overcome it. There's no rule in language or medicine stating they should be corrected for the description instead of helped with the problem.
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Those definitions don't require joking, though. Someone can refer to or think of something as an addiction without it being hyperbole.
It's either hyperbole or a metaphorical use.Addiction to fossil fuel isn't an exaggeration, it's a description of a real problem, on a large scale, usually, but if someone says they are going solar or biking because they're unhappy with fossil fuel addiction, nobody argues DSM with them.
This is a metaphorical use. The idea is that our societal attachment to fossil fuel is akin to a real addiction. It doesn't just mean we really enjoy using fossil fuels--that would make no sense.Someone can have a constant want or habit, identify it (correctly), and want to overcome it.
There are levels. For a serious use of "addiction" it has to be a higher level than "mmm, ice cream tastes good, I could go for some" or even than an occasional craving for, say, chocolate. Unless one is joking and says "jeez, I'm SUCH a chocoholic," which is perfectly fine from a usage perspective.There's no rule in language or medicine stating they should be corrected for the description instead of helped with the problem.
But whether it IS a problem is the question. Liking sweets (or ramen or comic books) isn't a problem in that sense (i.e., something like a real addiction). It's normal. It also might mean figuring out to deal with normal human will power failings, as was discussed upthread.
As I actually gave some advice on that, why not tell me why that advice is wrong and misses the true meaning of "addiction" if you think my advice was so off-base.
However, IMO--although none of this has anything to do with the OP and her specific issue--conceptualizing a desire to overeat as an addiction and, specifically, as a drug or alcohol addiction, as is common on MFP, is counterproductive to dealing effectively with the issue unless one has a specific ED, such as BED or compulsive overeating. And, in particular, thinking that your desire to overeat comes from the power or properties of the food is not helpful.0 -
I'm not touching the addiction debate anymore with a 30-foot pole.
I have to say, the "willpower is like a muscle" thing... I disagree. My experience has been that what willpower does, and the only thing it does, is allow me to gain new habits.
Once I get into a specific routine - be it food-related, work-related or anything else-related - it progressively becomes easier to maintain it because of force of habit, giving the impression that my willpower has become stronger.
When trying to adopt a new routine, however, or if I let myself go and need to get back on track, the effort is overall the same as it's always been which leads me to suspect that my willpower is exactly the same as it's always been.
Hence why I think willpower is only a temporary solution.
I've tried inserting food stamps in every hole I could find in my body but have yet to gain any high from it...AsaThorsWoman wrote: »(...) Speaker Shannon, R-Lawton, said "We must encourage able-bodied people to break their addiction to government subsidies and gain self-sufficiency."
http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/
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I'm not touching the addiction debate anymore with a 30-foot pole.
I have to say, the "willpower is like a muscle" thing... I disagree. My experience has been that what willpower does, and the only thing it does, is allow me to gain new habits.
Once I get into a specific routine - be it food-related, work-related or anything else-related - it progressively becomes easier to maintain it because of force of habit, giving the impression that my willpower has become stronger.
When trying to adopt a new routine, however, or if I let myself go and need to get back on track, the effort is overall the same as it's always been which leads me to suspect that my willpower is exactly the same as it's always been.
Hence why I think willpower is only a temporary solution.
I've tried inserting food stamps in every hole I could find in my body but have yet to gain any high from it...AsaThorsWoman wrote: »(...) Speaker Shannon, R-Lawton, said "We must encourage able-bodied people to break their addiction to government subsidies and gain self-sufficiency."
http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/
What you're describing is ego depletion... the fact that you make something a habit means that you no longer need to commit the same level of mental resources to the desired behavior. So in a sense, it IS like a muscle in that you need to consistently train yourself to achieve 'habit' status. This includes working through failure, which takes us back to willpower.
ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Those definitions don't require joking, though. Someone can refer to or think of something as an addiction without it being hyperbole.
It's either hyperbole or a metaphorical use.Addiction to fossil fuel isn't an exaggeration, it's a description of a real problem, on a large scale, usually, but if someone says they are going solar or biking because they're unhappy with fossil fuel addiction, nobody argues DSM with them.
This is a metaphorical use. The idea is that our societal attachment to fossil fuel is akin to a real addiction. It doesn't just mean we really enjoy using fossil fuels--that would make no sense.Someone can have a constant want or habit, identify it (correctly), and want to overcome it.
There are levels. For a serious use of "addiction" it has to be a higher level than "mmm, ice cream tastes good, I could go for some" or even than an occasional craving for, say, chocolate. Unless one is joking and says "jeez, I'm SUCH a chocoholic," which is perfectly fine from a usage perspective.There's no rule in language or medicine stating they should be corrected for the description instead of helped with the problem.
But whether it IS a problem is the question. Liking sweets (or ramen or comic books) isn't a problem in that sense (i.e., something like a real addiction). It's normal. It also might mean figuring out to deal with normal human will power failings, as was discussed upthread.
As I actually gave some advice on that, why not tell me why that advice is wrong and misses the true meaning of "addiction" if you think my advice was so off-base.
However, IMO--although none of this has anything to do with the OP and her specific issue--conceptualizing a desire to overeat as an addiction and, specifically, as a drug or alcohol addiction, as is common on MFP, is counterproductive to dealing effectively with the issue unless one has a specific ED, such as BED or compulsive overeating. And, in particular, thinking that your desire to overeat comes from the power or properties of the food is not helpful.
+1... Especially the bolded...0 -
I agree that willpower is necessary to set up a new habit, I said so from the start.bennettinfinity wrote: »
What you're describing is ego depletion... the fact that you make something a habit means that you no longer need to commit the same level of mental resources to the desired behavior. So in a sense, it IS like a muscle in that you need to consistently train yourself to achieve 'habit' status. This includes working through failure, which takes us back to willpower.I'm not touching the addiction debate anymore with a 30-foot pole.
I have to say, the "willpower is like a muscle" thing... I disagree. My experience has been that what willpower does, and the only thing it does, is allow me to gain new habits.
Once I get into a specific routine - be it food-related, work-related or anything else-related - it progressively becomes easier to maintain it because of force of habit, giving the impression that my willpower has become stronger.
When trying to adopt a new routine, however, or if I let myself go and need to get back on track, the effort is overall the same as it's always been which leads me to suspect that my willpower is exactly the same as it's always been.
Hence why I think willpower is only a temporary solution.
I've tried inserting food stamps in every hole I could find in my body but have yet to gain any high from it...AsaThorsWoman wrote: »(...) Speaker Shannon, R-Lawton, said "We must encourage able-bodied people to break their addiction to government subsidies and gain self-sufficiency."
http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/
ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion
However, saying willpower is the key to weight management just isn't true. It's more of a tool that you have to use sometimes, but if I had to rely on it exclusively (or prioritarily) I'd say "fuk it, I'll just be fat".
Incidentally, I'd say working through failure is more a function of determination than of willpower, but that's already a semantics debate and I loathe those.0 -
I haven't been condescending in the slightest.
And I most certainly haven't ever told anyone they suck at life for enjoying a meal out.
All I said was that food is not proven to be scientifically addictive in the way that some drugs are. It's a willpower problem (that we all have to conquer in our own way).
I said that willpower is a muscle worth exercising. The goal for everyone should be that someday they can be around all sorts of food without feeling anxious about it - or like they are cheating or failing if they have a treat.
I think it takes willpower to be able to have something you love, like Ramen, and be able to fit it into your macros for the day either by portion size or because you planned around it.
I said willpower is as important when you fall off the wagon (to get back on it) as it is to never fall off. I said that it takes willpower to do all sorts of things, including getting to the gym.
This is not being condescending. This is understanding that treats can be a healthy part of an overall diet and that, if you have a bad day, you can get right back on track the next day.
This is being realistic. No one should have to live in a bubble to "protect" themselves from temptation. If that's what you want to do because you have to, then so be it. But I, personally, don't think that's the only way to achieve success.
I believe you can go out and eat a meatball sub.
I believe you can decide whether or not the meatball sub will fit into your macros that day and, if it does, you have met your goal. If it doesn't, then make it up another day if it's something you want.
Either way, I believe that you can enjoy a meatball sub without guilt.
I especially believe that making a choice to have a meatball sub on occasion does not mean you "suck at life."
If you take offense to this, then it says more about you than it does about me.
This would be a great post if it wasn't just a strawman argument. For the record I never said there was anything wrong with moderation, enjoying a meal out, cheat meals, treats, etc. Nor do I believe that depriving yourself of the foods you love is good idea. You're just taking what I said out of context.
Not keeping "trigger foods" around your house is not synonymous with "living in a bubble." You can still eat them, just don't keep tons of them lying around tempting you. And you can still enjoy a meal out when you want to as well. BUT, when you just want to eat healthy and don't have time to cook then why make things hard on yourself?
I will agree with that willpower is definitely like a muscle. But it's a muscle that gets fatigued. If you rely on it too much it will eventually fatigue and fail you, which is exactly why the vast majority of diets end in long term failure. People achieve short term results by relying on high motivation and willpower. But eventually those wane and if they haven't established healthy habits the weight just comes right back.
What strawman argument? You said I was being condescending and I explained why I wasn't being condescending. I didn't take anything you said out of context. I quoted it verbatim.
You are working way to hard to argue. I said what I meant and I meant what I said. If you want to disagree, fine. You are allowed to disagree. I'm pretty sure I said this three pages ago.
You think willpower isn't reliable? Fine. I do. That's my personal belief. Those that agree with me, great. Those that don't, good luck to you.
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I'm not touching the addiction debate anymore with a 30-foot pole.
I have to say, the "willpower is like a muscle" thing... I disagree. My experience has been that what willpower does, and the only thing it does, is allow me to gain new habits.
Once I get into a specific routine - be it food-related, work-related or anything else-related - it progressively becomes easier to maintain it because of force of habit, giving the impression that my willpower has become stronger.
When trying to adopt a new routine, however, or if I let myself go and need to get back on track, the effort is overall the same as it's always been which leads me to suspect that my willpower is exactly the same as it's always been.
Hence why I think willpower is only a temporary solution.
I've tried inserting food stamps in every hole I could find in my body but have yet to gain any high from it...AsaThorsWoman wrote: »(...) Speaker Shannon, R-Lawton, said "We must encourage able-bodied people to break their addiction to government subsidies and gain self-sufficiency."
http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/
Personal experience is, well, personal.
We define, feel and clearly experience willpower in different ways. Good luck to you.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »
This was troubling to me as well. SMH.0 -
Like telling an alcoholic that drinking is ok, just practice moderation.0
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There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the concept of food addiction.
Here is just one article coming out of Yale:
http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/addiction/AddictionPublicHealthandPolicyImplications_Addiction_6.11.pdf0 -
People can become dependent to the ACT of eating because of the release it provides. No SPECIFIC food is addictive. They create reactions in the pleasure centers of our brain if they are tastes we enjoy - this isn't a shock. It just happens to be a food they find pleasurable to eat.0
This discussion has been closed.
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