can stronglift be reduced to 3x5?

Robbnva
Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
edited November 12 in Fitness and Exercise
Time is an issue for me, and I want to get in some cardio after. Would reducing to 3x5 affect my workout at all or affect my strength gains? I'm focused on losing weight first, building strength second. Right now workouts are going over an hour which means I have to cut out cardio or else I have to go over my calorie goals which I don't want to do.
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Replies

  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Can't you just eat a little less?

    IIRC, isn't starting strength a 3x5 program?
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,623 Member
    edited February 2015
    I'm assuming you are in a caloric deficit as well, I'd say that 3x5 is great. I do 3x3-6 with 3 warm up sets beforehand. My lifting is still about an hour long though due to the warm ups and 2+ minute long rests between sets.

    BTW, when dieting reduced volume is recommended anyways. So this might even work better for you for more than just time constraints.

    ETA I don't do stronglifts though, I do an upper/lower split. Full body doesn't bode well for me for regular usage haha. But when I HAVE done full body on this cut/diet I have done it at 3 sets.
  • FitFitzy331
    FitFitzy331 Posts: 308 Member
    Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 has a cutting version which only has 3x5 for the main compound lifts but then adds in 2x8 of accessory work. It's something to look into. The ICF (cutting) workouts only took me about 45 mins
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    Can't you just eat a little less?

    IIRC, isn't starting strength a 3x5 program?

    I can eat less but then I'm still hungry, I've lost almost 90lbs without being hungry so don't really feel like I should start being hungry now. Not to mention I have to increase my protein intake when lifting and added protein adds more calories

    And SL is a 5x5 program

    To the other suggestion, I'll look into that ice cream SL
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Doesn't SL have a 3x5 version as well?
  • jhc7324
    jhc7324 Posts: 200 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    Can't you just eat a little less?

    IIRC, isn't starting strength a 3x5 program?
    Yep


  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    Greyskull LP would also somewhat fit the bill. It's 2x5 and then 1xAMRAP.
  • AllanMisner
    AllanMisner Posts: 4,140 Member
    I’d increase the weight, and do 5 x 3. Depending on the intensity of the cardio, you might be able to mix it in during the rest between sets.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    SL is specifically designed to go down to 3x5 and then 1x5 as you progress. So yes, 3x5 is fine assuming intensity is there. Worst case, progress may be slower. Not the end of the world.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    jemhh wrote: »
    Greyskull LP would also somewhat fit the bill. It's 2x5 and then 1xAMRAP.

    Interesting, sounds like a mild rip-off of the original 5/3/1 template.

    I would say 3x5 is okay.
  • Chief_Rocka
    Chief_Rocka Posts: 4,710 Member
    I’d increase the weight, and do 5 x 3. Depending on the intensity of the cardio, you might be able to mix it in during the rest between sets.

    Don't do this. Please, don't.

  • AllanMisner
    AllanMisner Posts: 4,140 Member
    I’d increase the weight, and do 5 x 3. Depending on the intensity of the cardio, you might be able to mix it in during the rest between sets.

    Don't do this. Please, don't.

    Any specific reason why not?
  • LifterDave
    LifterDave Posts: 112 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    Time is an issue for me, and I want to get in some cardio after. Would reducing to 3x5 affect my workout at all or affect my strength gains? I'm focused on losing weight first, building strength second. Right now workouts are going over an hour which means I have to cut out cardio or else I have to go over my calorie goals which I don't want to do.

    It seems to me that you need to prioritize your goals and then prioritize your methods of getting there. SL 5x5 should not be taking over an hour, but if you want to drop it down to 3x5, it is not going to have that big of an effect if you keep the intensity up. If you can make an hour 3 days a week for SL5x5, can you not make some other time during the week for cardio?

    My real question would be what are your calorie goals and what are you basing them off of? You can always eat more or less depending on the direction your body fat is going. Do not just set some arbitrary number as a goal. You need calories to gain strength and then some more if you are going to do cardio on top of strength training. You might consider giving a 531 template combined with cardio afterwards a try. You can still gain strength while still losing fat that way.
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    edited February 2015
    I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.

    Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.

    SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )

    Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.

    1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    Worked well for me (I did starting Strength which is very similar to SL but 3x5).
  • jenglish712
    jenglish712 Posts: 497 Member
    Yes, 3x5 will still show strength gains but less muscle gains (less volume). But if you are trying to lose weight you are probably not gaining much if any muscle anyway. I recently switched from 5x5 to 3x5 due to calorie deficit and time issues. But once you get to needing the full three minutes between sets as well as having some failures and 5 minute waits... yes, it can get closer to an hour.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.

    Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.

    SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )

    Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.

    1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.

    Your ticker shows you have something like 25-35 lbs to lose. 2lbs a week is too high of a weight loss goal at this point.


  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    Why?
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    I’d increase the weight, and do 5 x 3. Depending on the intensity of the cardio, you might be able to mix it in during the rest between sets.

    Don't do this. Please, don't.

    Any specific reason why not?

    I'd like to know, too - which part of it are you responding to? I lift at a gym with an indoor track (thank goodness), so I get in a mile or so just between reps. It saves time.
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    You don't think cutting your calories to under 1400 as a male is aggressive? You are doing cardio just to be able to eat more.
    As a slightly overweight 5'5 female my calorie goal was higher than your before exercise to lose weight.

    The less weight you have to lose the smaller your deficit should be. You burn fewer calories overall which makes it harder to create a deficit.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    1-2 lbs is recommended. 2lbs being the high end which is more appropriate when you are on the higher end of the amount of weight to lose. 25-35 lbs is not the high end.
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    2 lbs isn't aggressive when you have 100 lbs to lose. But it is pretty aggressive when you only have 25 lbs to lose. Think about it - when you started losing weight, cutting 1000 calories a day probably equated to 25-33% of your daily caloric needs. Now, it's closer to a 45% cut. And it is probably below your basal metabolic rate which is what your body uses just living (what the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma). While eating below that will not send you into starvation mode (myth), it can cause metabolic damages - I.e. Your body suddenly becomes a lot more efficient and you actually decrease how many cals you burn in general.
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    2 lbs isn't aggressive when you have 100 lbs to lose. But it is pretty aggressive when you only have 25 lbs to lose. Think about it - when you started losing weight, cutting 1000 calories a day probably equated to 25-33% of your daily caloric needs. Now, it's closer to a 45% cut. And it is probably below your basal metabolic rate which is what your body uses just living (what the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma). While eating below that will not send you into starvation mode (myth), it can cause metabolic damages - I.e. Your body suddenly becomes a lot more efficient and you actually decrease how many cals you burn in general.
  • Charliegottheruns
    Charliegottheruns Posts: 286 Member
    kethry70 whats metabolic damages ?
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    You don't think cutting your calories to under 1400 as a male is aggressive? You are doing cardio just to be able to eat more.
    As a slightly overweight 5'5 female my calorie goal was higher than your before exercise to lose weight.

    The less weight you have to lose the smaller your deficit should be. You burn fewer calories overall which makes it harder to create a deficit.

    Well, to be honest I'd be doing the cardio anyway even if my calorie goal was 2000, but if it was 2k I wouldn't be eating the exercise calories back.
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    kethry70 wrote: »
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    2 lbs isn't aggressive when you have 100 lbs to lose. But it is pretty aggressive when you only have 25 lbs to lose. Think about it - when you started losing weight, cutting 1000 calories a day probably equated to 25-33% of your daily caloric needs. Now, it's closer to a 45% cut. And it is probably below your basal metabolic rate which is what your body uses just living (what the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma). While eating below that will not send you into starvation mode (myth), it can cause metabolic damages - I.e. Your body suddenly becomes a lot more efficient and you actually decrease how many cals you burn in general.

    You should lose a max of 1% of your body weight. For me that's 2.08 lbs a week.

    I only started lifting weight cause people told me doing cardio only is causing me to lose muscle mass, I don't really care about bulking, I just want to tone/lose fat/tighten skin. I'm perfectly happy jogging/walking 7 days a week but I don't want to lose muscle mass. I do realize that by eating less I won't build much if any muscle.

    That's why I'm here trying to find out of doing 3 sets of 5, will be fine or not
  • Robbnva
    Robbnva Posts: 590 Member
    kethry70 wrote: »
    Robbnva wrote: »
    kethry70 wrote: »
    It is my understanding that, the less you have to lose, the more likely it is that an aggressive deficit will cause higher loss of LBM with the fat. Even with a lifting program and higher protein intake, your body will still cannibalize muscle as well as fat. You can help limit that loss by slowing the weight loss. Plus, food is fuel for those workouts.

    Right but all the experts say 1 to 2lbs a week isn't aggressive.

    2 lbs isn't aggressive when you have 100 lbs to lose. But it is pretty aggressive when you only have 25 lbs to lose. Think about it - when you started losing weight, cutting 1000 calories a day probably equated to 25-33% of your daily caloric needs. Now, it's closer to a 45% cut. And it is probably below your basal metabolic rate which is what your body uses just living (what the hospital would feed you if you were in a coma). While eating below that will not send you into starvation mode (myth), it can cause metabolic damages - I.e. Your body suddenly becomes a lot more efficient and you actually decrease how many cals you burn in general.

    Thanks for your input. But I'm not asking advice about my diet.
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