Safe Weight Gain

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  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    grantevans11 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    grantevans11 wrote: »
    I think that's exactly the point, the OP was asking for foods they can eat during the day to make good gains, which I think I've answered. Veg, fish rice, nuts etc. YES, burgers, chips, beer etc. NO.

    I'm not interested in your philosophies or what you eat. I'm trying to help the OP to make the gains that I have, using the methods that have worked for me and I would expect to work for someone of a similar height, weight and build.

    you still never answered the question. What are the "right" foods that help you keep fat out of the wrong areas? I would like to know this so that I can eat said foods and not gain fat in certain areas….

    That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I don't understand why you can't appreciate that you're way isn't the only way to bulk. Eating your way, whatever you want so long as it hits your calories will work, but will likely result in a lot of unnecessary fat, that is going to be harder to lose than it is easy to avoid.

    Stop saying so long as it hits your calories and macros it's fine, everyone knows you need to meet your calories and macros, but how you choose to meet them will affect your gains now and will affect your general health in the future. There are loads of articles on the web to support this, you can't just fill your calories eith crap.

    Have a read of the article below, I emphasise point 3 made;

    http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/add-muscle-subtract-fat-clean-bulk-works?page=2&cc=GB

    Sorry to jump in on the dog pile but this article is your proof? So who is this guy that gets quoted as the author's only source and why should I care what he says? It's a false appeal to authority and makes no case other than demonstrating that you Googled and cherry picked the first article you found that supported your personal bias without even doing a critical evaluation of it. You will note that many of us here are well educated in the sciences and that isn't going to cut the mustard. Again, not trying to pick on you but please don't try to throw out a bad article as support, it's weak and won't wash.

    What you are saying is not entirely wrong, but not neither is it completely right. You should try to eat a proper balanced diet but that doesn't mean you restrict entire classes of food that are not harmful based on some food moralization. To tell someone that they must eat a particular way without understanding the basics of physiology is a disservice.

    OP, eat a proper balanced diet and get yourself into a surplus. It's not rocket science but it is a head game and a bit of trial and error to find your maintenane and optimal caloric intake. It's not as complex as a lot would make of it since your probably know 90% or more of what you need to already.
  • grantevans11
    grantevans11 Posts: 114 Member
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    MrM – We come back to the point where you are saying you haven’t eaten fries or fast food in a long time. This is not the point, you are advocating people can eat whatever they want within their calories and macro goals. By you not eating those foods, you’re sort of fighting my argument for me. Why don’t you eat fries or fast foods?

    I appreciate insulin has some part in muscle growth, but is also a massive cause of stored body fat. An insulin spike (caused by some foods previously mentioned) results in the recently ingested food being used for energy rather than the stored body fat.

    This also relates to your third point, where the size of the surplus and training dictate the fat gain. They do obviously play a huge part in the cause of fat gain, but they are not the only factor people need to consider, which is what I've been trying to get through since you began bickering.

    Wheelhouse - That article is not my proof, but does support what I am saying.

    For a clean bulk I think certain foods should be restricted. If you're not too worried about gaining a lot of fat go ahead and eat what you want, but if you want to gain minimal fat, and save the work when you're trying to cut you do need to be restrictive on how and what you eat.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited February 2015
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    grantevans11 wrote: »
    MrM – We come back to the point where you are saying you haven’t eaten fries or fast food in a long time. This is not the point, you are advocating people can eat whatever they want within their calories and macro goals. By you not eating those foods, you’re sort of fighting my argument for me. Why don’t you eat fries or fast foods?

    I appreciate insulin has some part in muscle growth, but is also a massive cause of stored body fat. An insulin spike (caused by some foods previously mentioned) results in the recently ingested food being used for energy rather than the stored body fat.

    This also relates to your third point, where the size of the surplus and training dictate the fat gain. They do obviously play a huge part in the cause of fat gain, but they are not the only factor people need to consider, which is what I've been trying to get through since you began bickering.

    Wheelhouse - That article is not my proof, but does support what I am saying.

    For a clean bulk I think certain foods should be restricted. If you're not too worried about gaining a lot of fat go ahead and eat what you want, but if you want to gain minimal fat, and save the work when you're trying to cut you do need to be restrictive on how and what you eat.

    The bold just provides proof that you have very little concept of basic physiology. Insulin is a master hormone and the main key to gaining muscle and is released when one eats either carbs or proteins. Yes, the property of burning glucose and slowing fat utilization (it doesn't stop it) is probably the best known effect but for those trying to gain muscle there is a far more important property: Insulin release signals abundance of energy without which you would be unable to synthesize skeletal muscle.

    Look at my profile picture that was taken 2 weeks ago after 3 month of bulking on flexible dieting that includes what you would say are bad foods. How much do I need to cut right now? It's about calories over maintenance that dertermines how much fat you gain.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    Poor OP just needs to eat more. Period. He doesn't need to avoid foods, restrict sugar, or any of the other nonsense. To gain weight he must eat more calories then he burns in a day. To gain weight in the form of muscle he needs to eat more calories then he burns, get in adequate protein, and lift weights while progressively increasing the load. To gain weight in the form of muscle and minimize fat gain, he must do everything in the previous sentence while also keeping the surplus small. That's literally it. Sure it's a good idea to eat some fruits and vegetables for vitamins/minerals and whole grains for fiber, but that has more to do with overall health, not really results. It certainly has NOTHING to do with how much fat is gained. That's almost completely related to the size of the deficit and training. Ice cream is delicious and can be eaten when dieting or bulking. Same with cookies, same with any food in existence.

    A good strategy for the OP would be to pick a reasonable calorie number, maybe 15 or 16 calories per lb he weighs to start. Eat that combined with around 0.8 grams of protein per lb he weighs. Give it a few weeks. If you are gaining at an appropriate pace, about 0.5 lbs a week, continue on. If you are not gaining, add in some calories. Anytime weight stalls for a few weeks, add in some calories. If weight gain becomes too rapid, reduce some calories. Keep it simple OP. Don't try and avoid foods or types of fat. Just keep a close eye on calories and adjust based on personal results.
  • FatFreeFrolicking
    FatFreeFrolicking Posts: 4,252 Member
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    grantevans11 wrote: »
    Matt_u wrote: »
    Grant I get where you are coming from, once at the gym I won't necessarily get the big gut etc that I would otherwise get just trying to put in weight with no excercise.

    I don't know what my current body fat is I'm afraid. Just trying to get an idea of what to eat and also what is good to eat before gym and how long before so not only will I build, have the energy but also not just carry on losing weight!

    Good to see someone can keep up and not just use this site to attack other members.

    To avoid gaining a gut and excess fat try steering away from saturated fat, and avoid empty calories like beer and vodka.

    Bro, you get a gut from eating more calories than you expend (aka calorie surplus).
  • FatFreeFrolicking
    FatFreeFrolicking Posts: 4,252 Member
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    grantevans11 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    grantevans11 wrote: »
    Ndj- I never said I didn't say that, what've said is that is not what I meant, which I think you know.

    If you meet your calories and macros it is fine, but it's not the optimal way to bulk. If you took the time to read that article you'd see why, which by the way is based on information from Nate Miyacki, a well known fitness author and coach, which is s lot more reliable than some angry forum trolls.

    The question you've asked me with your two ice cream examples, I'm not going to answer. I've never said the diet needs to be 100% clean because that would be pretty difficult. I agree you need to meet your calories and macros, which I've said in the past, but again we come back to the point where I've said it does matter what you fill those calories with. The argument is, you are saying fill calories with whatever you want, so long as it meets your macros and calorie goal. My argument is that their are foods you have suggest in previous posts that should be avoided.

    MrM - ive never said the diet needs to be 100% clean, I don't know why you keep saying that. Therefore I won't explain the science behind it because that doesn't relate to anything I've said.

    You've said I've never done anything so shouldn't advise people. First of all, how do you know what I've done and achieved? Secondly, last year I gained 22lbs and my body fat increased by 0.8%, tel me your method has better results than that?

    I think that also answers your next argument. But also, you've said your not telling people to eat s bunch of crap, that is your argument against me, so what are you talking about? Your whole argument was for people to eat whatever they want within their calories and macro goals and they'll be fine. My argument was that is not the best way to do it.

    Any more questions or irrelevant comments?

    so you stated something that is no accurate then, right?

    you are not going to answer my question because the answer will invalidate what you have been posting. The answer is if they both eat in a surplus and both hit macro/micro targets they will both gain about the same mass.

    So you are saying that ice cream should be avoided during a bulk? Ok, then please explain why.

    You say that you are not advocating eating 100% clean, but then at the same time you are saying there are foods that should be avoided. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.



    I said something which didn't come out the way it was meant. The OP understood that, and understood what I meant, which was who the comment was intended for.

    I don't know how from what I said you came to the conclusion that I am saying ice cream should be avoided in the bulk. That is not what I said nor what I intended to say/imply.

    You absolutely can have it both ways. You can eat 'dirty' foods in moderation few and far between, but you cannot eat whatever you want like your implying.

    When @ndj1979‌ says 'eat whatever you want', he means 'eat whatever you want in moderation.'
  • FitnessTrainer69
    FitnessTrainer69 Posts: 283 Member
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    Eat at a surplus. The higher the surplus the higher the fat gain and higher chance you can add muscle. Limit your cardio to light sessions to help keep extra fat down. Take pics or have your bodyfat measured to give you a good baseline.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    vismal wrote: »
    Poor OP just needs to eat more. Period. He doesn't need to avoid foods, restrict sugar, or any of the other nonsense. To gain weight he must eat more calories then he burns in a day. To gain weight in the form of muscle he needs to eat more calories then he burns, get in adequate protein, and lift weights while progressively increasing the load. To gain weight in the form of muscle and minimize fat gain, he must do everything in the previous sentence while also keeping the surplus small. That's literally it. Sure it's a good idea to eat some fruits and vegetables for vitamins/minerals and whole grains for fiber, but that has more to do with overall health, not really results. It certainly has NOTHING to do with how much fat is gained. That's almost completely related to the size of the deficit and training. Ice cream is delicious and can be eaten when dieting or bulking. Same with cookies, same with any food in existence.

    A good strategy for the OP would be to pick a reasonable calorie number, maybe 15 or 16 calories per lb he weighs to start. Eat that combined with around 0.8 grams of protein per lb he weighs. Give it a few weeks. If you are gaining at an appropriate pace, about 0.5 lbs a week, continue on. If you are not gaining, add in some calories. Anytime weight stalls for a few weeks, add in some calories. If weight gain becomes too rapid, reduce some calories. Keep it simple OP. Don't try and avoid foods or types of fat. Just keep a close eye on calories and adjust based on personal results.

    That's about it.

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