length of first bulk/cut cycle?

Most people start a bulk at a specific body fat and end a bulk at a specific body fat. It's done that way to maximize hormones and nutrient partitioning.

Women usually start a bulk around or below 18% then start cutting around 24%.

ETA: My first real bulk was a bit over a year.

seena511 wrote: »

so my question is really more about the "cutting" side of this, but i thought i'd get more of the answers i'm looking for here. very recently (2 weeks ago) i started a bulk with the goal of gaining 1/2 lb per week. this is the first time that i'm trying this after several years of dieting and plateaus, so needless to say i'm very nervous about this. with summer getting closer, i'm worried about getting to a point where i look more "fat" than "muscular" and i was thinking about trying to cut 1/2 lbs per week beginning in early/mid April. i know that's not really a long time for a bulk but again, just thinking about summer and my affinity for short shorts.

ultimately i want to lose about 10 more lbs.

the flip side is that i really don't want to lose strength if i can help it. i know that some strength loss is to be expected, but obviously (like everyone here) i want to minimize that. i'm really close to 200 lbs on squat and i don't want that to slip away!

that being said, how long would be a good "trial period" for me to give cutting to see if i'm losing body fat without also losing too much strength? currently i lift four days a week (wendler's) and i'm doing cardio on top of that as i'm an endurance cyclist and training for a half marathon. i know that the top advice i'll get is probably to drop cardio but that's not going to happen, so i understand as well if i need to accept some strength loss in order to not lose ground on that.

any helpful advice appreciated.

When are all your races taking place? If I were you I wouldn't do the bulk now, followed by a cut, so close to competition time (I'm assuming they are spring summer)

Your racing weight will go up and your times will go down. Then you'll cut and your performance will take another nose dive. Your strength will drop, it's pretty unavoidable.

If I were you, and we are pretty similar, I'm a triathloner who bulks ands cuts, I would wait until the off season to concentrate on bulking properly and take the cardio out/down in volume and intensity for a while to maximise gains. So bulk late October, November, December,then new year do the aerobic part of your training while cutting for a month or six weeks(cutting while intensly training over , Lactate Threshold can cut into muscle if you're not careful) then be ready for the high intensity part of your training year to kick in in Feb, March, April May onwards. Eat at maintenance.

It's very difficult for endurance athletes to bulk and cut as we have a small time frame. Joe Friel's books on cycling and Triathlon Periodization are second to none for this training advice. He doesn't specifically help with the bulking and cutting, the gaining weight forum has been invaluable, plus my own experience.

I was 15% bf At the beginning of my bulk. You may want to cut before your bulk after race season.

In short, bulking and fast racing times are not compatible. Cutting and strength and performance gains or even maintenance are not either. It's a recipe for injury and lack of power.

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

The bro science is strong

Wheelhouse15 wrote: »

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

Hardcore fitness models tend to be enhanced and have a life that revolves around eating and training. I think it would be unwise to follow their advice for a person who isn't so maniacally devoted to aesthetics.

OP please ignore this horrible post, which other than the protein diet content, which is surprisingly good, is not worth reading.

Cosigned

ndj1979 wrote: »

Springfield1970 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

Springfield1970 wrote: »

Great! Come back and hang out when you're ready to bulk, it's so much fun!

agreed...

You missing it Cutty Cutterson? ;-(

eh, it has gotten better..

The first month was a little rough but then I bumped up cals by 100 per day which helped...

some days I log my food and am almost at goal for day and am like WTF!!!!

So it's only SOME days.

V2Win1000 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I really don't see the point in doing a bulk for what amounts to about a month. That's not really going to do anything.

As has already been stated, a bulk is usually started at a fairly low BF% and then you cut when you hit your ceiling, whatever that is for you....but you do have to have enough time to actually put on the weight which means inevitably you're going to get a little fat.

I did my first bulk cycle recently and I went for about 5 months. I started at 10-12% BF and started a couple weeks ago @ around 16ish%.

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

And this ^^^ is a bunch of bull *kitten*....you can't build muscle and cut at the same time...you can re-comp in maintenance for which you will slowly add some muscle and cut fat...I did this for about 1.5 years and made good progress and continued to lean out without losing much weight...but I didn't put on appreciable muscle...you can't build something from nothing.

If i were to assume everything you did was with anywhere near the same level of knowledge than maybe you just have u pretty unfortunate genetic situation. Im eating over 200g of protein a day.. My progress is not under strain at all its bs to think you cant make gains when you're giving your body exactly what it needs to do so despite a deficit.

It depends on what type of "gains" you are referring to.

yopeeps025 wrote: »

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

Dumbest post of the day SIR. The bold made me laugh though. If you are losing two pounds per week. YOU still think you are making any muscle gains which would mean you are losing more than 2 pounds of fat a week?

Strength=/= mass

Well buddy i don't "think" weights into moving themselves it truly takes an increase in muscle mass to significantly increase the amount of weight you can lift comfortably. Thats silly the bold text wasn't intentional im not even certain how i could have done that from my phone. How can ppl disagree that giving your body what it needs is important?? If you call it a bulk its because you feel like eating cheeseburgers and pasta whenever you want and still feel like any progress is the best kind. If you only allow yourself to consume the best leanest sources of nutrients the callories won't be as high. Its kind of astonishing how ppl who haven't even gone as far as understand how Macros work would argue against good information. Maybe its to protect their excuse for not achieving the gains they hoped for, but heres one thing nobody should overlooked. If you use the same tools that professionals in the industry use.. IFBB pros.. Physique class competitors.. Athletes who make magazine covers.. Than you won't have these excuses anymore. Many have vlogs and document what they learn over the coarse of years and those are great resources. Instead of saying it isnt possible just face the fact that what is in fact possible is achieved at a level of dedication that you aren't prepared to commit to. I guess for some that would be the first hurdle in overcoming ignorance.

seena511 wrote: »

thank you everyone, this was so helpful. i'm going back to weight loss or maybe maintenance for summer time. much appreciated!!

See you soon...

As an aside, I find fall and into winter and the holiday season a good time to bulk (hey, you're gonna eat anyway and the gym is heated)...and spring a good time to cut...and then you look *kitten* awesome in the summer.

V2Win1000 wrote: »

yopeeps025 wrote: »

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

Dumbest post of the day SIR. The bold made me laugh though. If you are losing two pounds per week. YOU still think you are making any muscle gains which would mean you are losing more than 2 pounds of fat a week?

Strength=/= mass

Well buddy i don't "think" weights into moving themselves it truly takes an increase in muscle mass to significantly increase the amount of weight you can lift comfortably. Thats silly the bold text wasn't intentional im not even certain how i could have done that from my phone. How can ppl disagree that giving your body what it needs is important?? If you call it a bulk its because you feel like eating cheeseburgers and pasta whenever you want and still feel like any progress is the best kind. If you only allow yourself to consume the best leanest sources of nutrients the callories won't be as high. Its kind of astonishing how ppl who haven't even gone as far as understand how Macros work would argue against good information. Maybe its to protect their excuse for not achieving the gains they hoped for, but heres one thing nobody should overlooked. If you use the same tools that professionals in the industry use.. IFBB pros.. Physique class competitors.. Athletes who make magazine covers.. Than you won't have these excuses anymore. Many have vlogs and document what they learn over the coarse of years and those are great resources. Instead of saying it isnt possible just face the fact that what is in fact possible is achieved at a level of dedication that you aren't prepared to commit to. I guess for some that would be the first hurdle in overcoming ignorance.

I bolded that statement because it was so wrong. Your arguing very basic MFP topic that get a thread almost everyday and you won't win.

Also bold again is wrong again. Well you did say think. Unless you are in the newbie stages of lifting than yeah to building significant muscle mass in a calorie deficit.

V2Win1000 wrote: »

yopeeps025 wrote: »

V2Win1000 wrote: »

Listen to the hard core fitness models! Lol male or female they usually say that bulking is the term used by ppl who don't want to eat well while building muscle. Honestly ive had trouble with too low of a callororic deficit while lifting heavy, but if seriously cleared that up completely with counting my macros. Do some googling or youtubing on counting macros and you would be surprised how much you can learn about diet and how your body responds. Anyways im making lean muscle gains at a pace that i feel is my maximum and im also loosing 2lb a week. 2000cals a day with a heavy lift load used to drain me and throw my hormones, but i still use the same cals only i boosted my protein to a gram per pound of body weight, keep my fat intake at above 20% per pound of my body weight and really only use carbs as a tool to just have enough for my lifts. As low as possible. And always low glycemic carbs only. It can be done but its all in understanding how macros work and how they work with your body and goals. Hope that helps.

Dumbest post of the day SIR. The bold made me laugh though. If you are losing two pounds per week. YOU still think you are making any muscle gains which would mean you are losing more than 2 pounds of fat a week?

Strength=/= mass

Well buddy i don't "think" weights into moving themselves it truly takes an increase in muscle mass to significantly increase the amount of weight you can lift comfortably. Thats silly the bold text wasn't intentional im not even certain how i could have done that from my phone. How can ppl disagree that giving your body what it needs is important?? If you call it a bulk its because you feel like eating cheeseburgers and pasta whenever you want and still feel like any progress is the best kind. If you only allow yourself to consume the best leanest sources of nutrients the callories won't be as high. Its kind of astonishing how ppl who haven't even gone as far as understand how Macros work would argue against good information. Maybe its to protect their excuse for not achieving the gains they hoped for, but heres one thing nobody should overlooked. If you use the same tools that professionals in the industry use.. IFBB pros.. Physique class competitors.. Athletes who make magazine covers.. Than you won't have these excuses anymore. Many have vlogs and document what they learn over the coarse of years and those are great resources. Instead of saying it isnt possible just face the fact that what is in fact possible is achieved at a level of dedication that you aren't prepared to commit to. I guess for some that would be the first hurdle in overcoming ignorance.

I don't even know where to start with this. I'm just going to say, good luck. You have a lot to learn and you should be checking science, not some IFBB pros (did you know that many bikini competitors use steroids? That's just bikini, imagine what the physique guys use).