Wal-Mart
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MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
This is why companies fight to keep the minimum wage low. If they can pay the lowest workers less than what it takes to sustain themselves, they can justify paying you just enough to get by.0 -
MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...
^^This^^^ I work in the medical field too in direct contact with patients and potentially deadly diseases, and I get paid less than 15 an hour, so someone who hasn't spent the time and money to get an education has the right to make more money than me? Somehow that doesn't sit quite right with me. Just sayin.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
People who work minimum wage jobs don't work hard?
Sure. I used to work minimum wage jobs when I was starting out in the workforce, but by "working hard", I am referring to bettering one's self to get better jobs and wages. I'm guessing you probably knew what I meant though.
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tincanonastring wrote: »TheRoadDog wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
I don't think they deserve more just because. I think we, as a society, a long time ago, agreed that there was a minimum fair wage that any worker should be paid per hour. That wage has not risen in accordance with other economic measurements, and it has allowed employers to intentionally stagnate wages at every level.
Translated: "I think they should be paid more just because."
If that's how you want to view it. Do you believe there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all?
I think minimum wage was about $1.65 when I started working. Wasn't enough to survive. I joined the Marine Corps. 6 years later minimum wage was still under $4. I took a second job and worked all the OT available.
I believe minimum wage is necessary, but I am not so sure that everyone should be paid $15.00 for flipping burgers or pumping gas. If there is no incentive to progress, why bother. Too many people have their hand out. Too many people feel entitled.
I ran across an interesting article on politifact a year or so ago that showed how it was possible to finance an in-state college education in the late 70's on a minimum wage (less than $3/hr) summer job. Do you think that would still be a possibility? Some of it is rising college costs, but some of it is due to a stagnant minimum wage. If you're comparing $1.65/hr from your youth to $15/hr today, I can see how that seems excessive, but think of the difference in purchasing power of the dollar from back then to now.
Good points. The College thing, though, is a whole other topic. My youngest daughter graduates college in June. I have seen so much abuse from what I consider to be a racket. Books are outrageously priced and it seems that every year they change or have a new addendum, so the kids can't trade them or get their money back. I think charging hundreds of dollars for a book you will use for 1 semester is a crime.
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tincanonastring wrote: »MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
This is why companies fight to keep the minimum wage low. If they can pay the lowest workers less than what it takes to sustain themselves, they can justify paying you just enough to get by.
Then why the hate for Wal-Mart and not, say McDonalds? Wal-Mart pays over the national minimum wage.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »There shouldn't. I believe a person should be allowed to enter into any agreement he/she so chooses without government interference. That includes an agreement to barter his/her time with someone in exchange for whatever pay they agree upon. If you don't like what you can earn from someone, don't work for them. If you are unable to command more money, make yourself more valuable.
Funny how I do not have any law dictating that I get paid as much as I do. I made my time valuable, and my employer pays me as such.
I think you're dismissing minimum wage without realizing the effect it has on your own salary. I also think you vastly underestimate how difficult it can be to "make yourself more valuable" depending on your starting point.
I think if you had any clue what I do or how much I make, you would understand that minimum wage does nothing to boost my salary. And you vastly OVER estimate how difficult it can be to better yourself. It is all in the choices you make in life. And your choices are yours to live with. To some have it easier than others? Yes. But just as some who have an easy path to a better life chose to stagnate in low paying jobs, some who have a very difficult path to bettering themselves do so and become very successful. While the road may not be of equal difficulty for all, it IS possible for all. And at the end, you are responsible for the choices you make.
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tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
I don't think they deserve more just because. I think we, as a society, a long time ago, agreed that there was a minimum fair wage that any worker should be paid per hour. That wage has not risen in accordance with other economic measurements, and it has allowed employers to intentionally stagnate wages at every level.
the important part of that statement is every level. the argument really applies to everyone who's not a CEO0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
This is why companies fight to keep the minimum wage low. If they can pay the lowest workers less than what it takes to sustain themselves, they can justify paying you just enough to get by.
Then why the hate for Wal-Mart and not, say McDonalds? Wal-Mart pays over the national minimum wage.
Because this thread is about Wal-Mart, and there are issues with Wal-Marts labor practices that go beyond minimum wage. If you'd like to start a thread about McDonalds, I'll post there, too.0 -
KrysKiss87 wrote: »MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...
^^This^^^ I work in the medical field too in direct contact with patients and potentially deadly diseases, and I get paid less than 15 an hour, so someone who hasn't spent the time and money to get an education has the right to make more money than me? Somehow that doesn't sit quite right with me. Just sayin.
As much as I hear what you're saying.. I kind of have to disagree. The fight for $15 in San Francisco and surrounding areas made sense to me.. Maybe because I live in the Monterey bay and the cost of living is OUTRAGEOUS. You HAVE to make $15/hr to be able to afford even a 2 bedroom apartment here. My husband makes salary, so it doesn't hit me directly- but I still understand the need. I pay $2600 a month rent for a 2.5 (office size room is the .5) bedroom house- and an apartment this size easily costs $1800. Trying to provide for yourself, let alone a family @ $8-$9/hour is impossible.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
People who work minimum wage jobs don't work hard?
They did not work hard to get where they are. Difficulty of work performed does not equate to value of work performed. Digging a ditch with a shovel would be difficult work, but it isn't valuable. Because any healthy idiot can operate a shovel. As such, the supply of labor is astronomical. And via supply and demand, the value of labor is very low.
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I have no problem with Walmart as a business. I don't shop there personally. Any issue with how they treat people is moot in my opinion though. You apply there and work there you accept their employment as it is. You have opportunities to work and get paid, as well as utilize other benefits to improve your own worth like educational opportunities. Ya don't like it, go somewhere else and work that meets your expectations, making sure you align those with your actual market worth.0
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
People who work minimum wage jobs don't work hard?
They did not work hard to get where they are. Difficulty of work performed does not equate to value of work performed. Digging a ditch with a shovel would be difficult work, but it isn't valuable. Because any healthy idiot can operate a shovel. As such, the supply of labor is astronomical. And via supply and demand, the value of labor is very low.
probably any fool can do 'difficult labor' if they are able bodied. its skilled labor that should demand higher pay, which I believe is what your getting at here
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djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »There shouldn't. I believe a person should be allowed to enter into any agreement he/she so chooses without government interference. That includes an agreement to barter his/her time with someone in exchange for whatever pay they agree upon. If you don't like what you can earn from someone, don't work for them. If you are unable to command more money, make yourself more valuable.
Funny how I do not have any law dictating that I get paid as much as I do. I made my time valuable, and my employer pays me as such.
I think you're dismissing minimum wage without realizing the effect it has on your own salary. I also think you vastly underestimate how difficult it can be to "make yourself more valuable" depending on your starting point.
I think if you had any clue what I do or how much I make, you would understand that minimum wage does nothing to boost my salary. And you vastly OVER estimate how difficult it can be to better yourself. It is all in the choices you make in life. And your choices are yours to live with. To some have it easier than others? Yes. But just as some who have an easy path to a better life chose to stagnate in low paying jobs, some who have a very difficult path to bettering themselves do so and become very successful. While the road may not be of equal difficulty for all, it IS possible for all. And at the end, you are responsible for the choices you make.
Minimum wage provides a starting point for the economy that affects pretty much all wages. Congrats if you're in the tiny minority to which that doesn't apply. I think it's a testament to how difficult it actually is to raise yourself up that the success stories are considered anomolies.
As for the bolded part, I would completely agree, but many times the people stuck in dead-end, minimum wage job are being held responsible for the choices others have made, not their own, and I think your viewpoint makes it too easy to dismiss that.
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tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »There shouldn't. I believe a person should be allowed to enter into any agreement he/she so chooses without government interference. That includes an agreement to barter his/her time with someone in exchange for whatever pay they agree upon. If you don't like what you can earn from someone, don't work for them. If you are unable to command more money, make yourself more valuable.
Funny how I do not have any law dictating that I get paid as much as I do. I made my time valuable, and my employer pays me as such.
I think you're dismissing minimum wage without realizing the effect it has on your own salary. I also think you vastly underestimate how difficult it can be to "make yourself more valuable" depending on your starting point.
I think if you had any clue what I do or how much I make, you would understand that minimum wage does nothing to boost my salary. And you vastly OVER estimate how difficult it can be to better yourself. It is all in the choices you make in life. And your choices are yours to live with. To some have it easier than others? Yes. But just as some who have an easy path to a better life chose to stagnate in low paying jobs, some who have a very difficult path to bettering themselves do so and become very successful. While the road may not be of equal difficulty for all, it IS possible for all. And at the end, you are responsible for the choices you make.
Minimum wage provides a starting point for the economy that affects pretty much all wages. Congrats if you're in the tiny minority to which that doesn't apply. I think it's a testament to how difficult it actually is to raise yourself up that the success stories are considered anomolies.
As for the bolded part, I would completely agree, but many times the forces holding someone in a dead-end, minimum wage job are being held responsible for the choices others have made, and I think your viewpoint makes it too easy to dismiss that.
there are two things most highly correlated with SES, the first being where you start, and the other being years of education.... The first one you obviously have no control over, and while you do have more control over the second...
I would say that those not born into it certainly have to work harder to achieve things.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »There shouldn't. I believe a person should be allowed to enter into any agreement he/she so chooses without government interference. That includes an agreement to barter his/her time with someone in exchange for whatever pay they agree upon. If you don't like what you can earn from someone, don't work for them. If you are unable to command more money, make yourself more valuable.
Funny how I do not have any law dictating that I get paid as much as I do. I made my time valuable, and my employer pays me as such.
I think you're dismissing minimum wage without realizing the effect it has on your own salary. I also think you vastly underestimate how difficult it can be to "make yourself more valuable" depending on your starting point.
I think if you had any clue what I do or how much I make, you would understand that minimum wage does nothing to boost my salary. And you vastly OVER estimate how difficult it can be to better yourself. It is all in the choices you make in life. And your choices are yours to live with. To some have it easier than others? Yes. But just as some who have an easy path to a better life chose to stagnate in low paying jobs, some who have a very difficult path to bettering themselves do so and become very successful. While the road may not be of equal difficulty for all, it IS possible for all. And at the end, you are responsible for the choices you make.
Minimum wage provides a starting point for the economy that affects pretty much all wages. Congrats if you're in the tiny minority to which that doesn't apply. I think it's a testament to how difficult it actually is to raise yourself up that the success stories are considered anomolies.
As for the bolded part, I would completely agree, but many times the forces holding someone in a dead-end, minimum wage job are being held responsible for the choices others have made, and I think your viewpoint makes it too easy to dismiss that.
Success stories are not considered anomalies. Getting a worthwhile degree, or going to trade school and learning a trade, are not rare anomalies. And they are both paths to a decent life which are available to anyone. No, you may not earn a six figure salary. But that is also not a requirement to having a good life.
And you refer to forces holding someone in a dead end minimum wage job. Whose choices put them in that job in the first place? A persons situation in life is the sum total of the choices they make. Yes, their life may be impacted by others choices. But by and large, it was their choices that put them into a position to be impacted.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Minimum wage is a tool to get votes. When minimum wage goes up, the companies that hire mostly minimum wage workers do two things; raise prices and cut hours to maintain their margins. That, in turn, reduces the quality (if you can call it that) of service, and makes those of us who have worked hard to get where we are pay more without a comparable bump in our non-minimum wage jobs.
People who work minimum wage jobs don't work hard?
They did not work hard to get where they are. Difficulty of work performed does not equate to value of work performed. Digging a ditch with a shovel would be difficult work, but it isn't valuable. Because any healthy idiot can operate a shovel. As such, the supply of labor is astronomical. And via supply and demand, the value of labor is very low.
Not valuable? The world couldn't go on without minimum wage workers.0 -
AmberStarr_87 wrote: »KrysKiss87 wrote: »MindySaysWhaaat wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »I find it amusing that so many people think someones deserves to be paid more, just because. If you want to earn more money, do something to make yourself more valuable. Nobody deserves to be paid a certain amount just because they posses the skill of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
The livable wage debate kills me. I can agree that people in general need to get paid a little more, but things like the "fight for 15" bug me, since I make just under 15 and I do a job where if I mess up someone could potentially die, and I have to handle HIV blood on a daily basis...
^^This^^^ I work in the medical field too in direct contact with patients and potentially deadly diseases, and I get paid less than 15 an hour, so someone who hasn't spent the time and money to get an education has the right to make more money than me? Somehow that doesn't sit quite right with me. Just sayin.
As much as I hear what you're saying.. I kind of have to disagree. The fight for $15 in San Francisco and surrounding areas made sense to me.. Maybe because I live in the Monterey bay and the cost of living is OUTRAGEOUS. You HAVE to make $15/hr to be able to afford even a 2 bedroom apartment here. My husband makes salary, so it doesn't hit me directly- but I still understand the need. I pay $2600 a month rent for a 2.5 (office size room is the .5) bedroom house- and an apartment this size easily costs $1800. Trying to provide for yourself, let alone a family @ $8-$9/hour is impossible.
This is also true. I suppose I should have gone more into detail with what I meant. Where I am living the cost of living is probably very different than where you live. Where I am 15 an hour is pretty decent pay for someone who has an educational background. The average for our workers in the food service industry is anywhere from 9-12 an hour depending on experience. However, with a minimum wage set at 15 across the board, that would mean that even though the cost of living here is different, I would be getting paid less than those in the food industry here. I busted my *kitten* to get this far by putting myself through school and working 2 jobs on the side. I've lived at both ends of the spectrum, and While I agree that minimum wage workers work hard too, and they should be acknowledged and paid for that work, it kinda makes me feel like my degree that I spent so much time and money on would be worth Nada. But that is just my opinion.0 -
The only reason walmart employees deserve more money is because they have to smell the people who shop there =-O0
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The focus here seems to be on minimum wage, but that is not the sole reason Walmart gets a bad rap. It actually has more to do with their policy of maintaining a larger part-time workforce instead of full-time employees who they would then be required to pay benefits in addition to the 40 hour paycheck. So, with the additional need for health benefits on top of food benefits, the load to taxpayers for Walmart employees is substantial.
Not necessarily expressing an opinion here, just clarifying.0
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