Confused about carbs

herrspoons wrote: »

BritDillinger wrote: »

rabbitjb wrote: »

BritDillinger wrote: »

Despite what many are saying, consuming carbs to a varying degree does change how your body stores and burns body fat, which can change how well you lose weight. Keeping a low carb diet is best and ideal for your body. Your brain and other major organs thrive on fat and your body converts protein into necessary sugars. Basic low carb, I believe, is under 100g - 50g net carb (that's after subtracting total carbs with dietary fiber and sugar alcohols) and a diet called the Ketogenic diet is 20g net carbs and under.

Here are some illustrations and articles for an easier understanding:
* http://www.fastcodesign.com/1668916/pasta-not-bacon-makes-you-fat-but-how

* http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethhoffman/2012/04/16/carbs-or-fat-the-battle-continues-infographic/

Carbs do not change how your body stores fat ...can you explain why you think this with some form of evidence because as an assertion it's fairly odd

Keeping a low carb diet is only ideal if you find it easy and can stick to it for life which most don't / can't

http://www.ditchthecarbs.com/why/

Taking a snippet:

"When you consume carbohydrates, they get turned into glucose by your body. The pancreas then secretes insulin to reduce the blood glucose levels. Insulin is our fat STORING hormone and fat burning is switched off. If we have very little amounts of carbohydrates in our diet, we then secrete less insulin, and therefore store less fat and able to burn fat."

Interesting. Please explain fructolysis and insulin's role, or lack thereof, in this process. You know, since fructose is a carb.

Here, from bodybuilding.com: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm

I will copy/paste most of the page for you. Read the entire page then if these don’t answer your questions.

BENEFIT 1
The main benefit being that it increases the body's ability to utilize fats for fuel, which gets very lazy on a high carbohydrate diet. When on high carbohydrate diets the body can usually expect an energy source to keep entering the body. But in the state of ketosis the body has to become efficient at mobilizing fats as energy.

BENEFIT 2
Ketosis has a protein sparing effect, assuming that you are consuming adequate quantities of protein and calories in the first place. Once in ketosis the body actually prefers ketones to glucose. Since the body has copious quantities of fat this means that there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis.

BENEFIT 3
Another benefit has to do with the low levels of insulin in the body, which causes greater lipolysis and free glycerol release compared to a normal diet when insulin is around 80-120. Insulin has a lipolysis blocking effect, which can inhibit the use of fatty acids as energy. Also when insulin is brought to low levels many beneficial hormones are released in the body such as growth hormone and other powerful growth factors.

BENEFIT 4
Another small but very important benefit about the ketogenic diet is that when in the state of ketosis, ketones seem to blunt hunger in many people. I mean honestly, what is not better than being on a low calorie diet and not being hungry all the time like you usually are such as on a high carbohydrate diet. Since on the ketogenic diet you have to consume a lot of fat, which hold 9 calories, you are not getting much food volume. This makes not being hungry a very good thing when on the diet. When you add such thermogenics like the ECA stack and prescription appetite suppressants you won't even think about your next meal. It's kind of funny that when the Atkins' diet first came out one of the early criticisms was that the diet blunted hunger too much! What, is it mandatory to be hungry on a reduced calorie diet?

BENEFIT 5
The last benefit has to do with the fact that a ketone body is an inefficient fuel source due to the fact that when the fatty acid is converted to a KB it contains 7 calories. This means that the normal pound of fat has less than 3,500 calories.

WHERE IS THE SCIENTIFIC DATA?
The state of ketosis is—for the most part—controlled by insulin, glucagon, and blood glucose levels. Insulin is one of the hormones that the pancreas secretes in the presence of carbohydrates. Insulin's purpose is to keep blood glucose levels in check by acting like a driver, pushing the glucose in the blood into cells. If insulin were not to be secreted, blood glucose levels would get out of control and this would not be good for the body.

Glucagon is on the other side of the spectrum; it is insulin's antagonistic hormone. Glucagon is also secreted by the pancreas when insulin falls to quite low levels. This usually happens when a person skips meals, or does not consume adequate amounts of carbohydrates for an extended period of time. When this happens, glucagon is secreted by the pancreas to break down stored glycogen in the liver into a more usable form, glucose. But what happens if this continues and liver glycogen runs out? This is where the metabolic state of ketosis comes in, because the pancreas can also start breaking down free fatty acids into a usable energy substrate, also known as ketones, or ketone bodies.

Edit:
Satisfied?

brianpperkins wrote: »

@BritDillinger Source vetting is important ... try it some time. Then again, your pro-keto profile quote does go a long way towards explaining the slanted content of your posts.

What he said but I was too lazy to type.

I think the problem here is the black and white way these things are looked at, and the ferocity of which the proponents of these 'diets' believe in their point. YOU MUST EAT THIS WAY!

I'm sure entering a ketogenic state has some proven benefits. I'm sure a high fat diet has some proven benefits. I'm sure a high carbohydrate diet has some proven benefits. One thing they all have in common is they create a calorie deficit which is the one single thing you need to drop body fat.

A macro range that gives a ketogenic state may be 0.0008% more optimal in fat body fat burning than another macro range, but that's pointless if you can stick with it for 2 weeks because you hate not eating carbs, or your exercise performance plummets.

I have no idea what macro range is optimal for body fat loss, and I don't really care. I do know that ANY macro range will achieve fat loss. Therefore I chose a macro range that I enjoy, can stick to, and allows me maximum exercise performance.

Again, OP, lose weight by eating at a calorie deficit. Tailor the macronutrient make-up of this deficit for personal preference, performance and sustainability.

PS.. Copy and pasting BB.com articles, especially ones that contain this, doesn't really add any gravitas to your argument.

When you add such thermogenics like the ECA stack and prescription appetite suppressants you won't even think about your next meal

christinev297 wrote: »

Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say

Medical doctor:

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

christinev297 wrote: »

christinev297 wrote: »

Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say

ceoverturf wrote: »

BritDillinger wrote: »

christinev297 wrote: »

Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say

Medical doctor:

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

Blog/article.

If you want I'll make a mock up website, post a picture of myself, call myself a doctor, and post my opinions on the internet in about half an hour.

Se what I mean!? If the above article went against keto would people be so quick to dismiss it?
Let me reiterate, i'm not a keto or low carb follower,

Can't speak for everyone, but I would.

Interesting reading on foods that are high and low on glycemic index. This will give you perspective on how carbs affect your body..

I am not a diabetic but I did some research on carbs and this definitely gave me some education about carbs and sugar...

Evil *kitten* carbs....











So evil....

BritDillinger wrote: »

christinev297 wrote: »

Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say

Medical doctor:

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

Brit, I eat a low carb diet (low enough that I go in and out of ketosis occasionally). I'm extremely low carb/keto friendly because of my own experience. But the diet really, really isn't the-one-true-way to eat. Some people thrive on the diet (especially those with underlying medical conditions) and others don't. It's not for everyone and there's no science suggesting it is.

You can be enthusiastic about this way of eating if you are, share your experience and leave it at that. I think those who might be interested would find that approach more helpful than claims that can't be substantiated by the current research. Best wishes to you and thanks for sharing so many articles; I'm always interested in what people have to say about low carb/keto.

aaand back to basics, does this look about right?

herrspoons wrote: »

BritDillinger wrote: »

christinev297 wrote: »

Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say

Medical doctor:

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

Have you answered the question about fructolysis yet? Also, can you explain gluconeogenesis and why your body will continue to produce glucose in the absence of carbohydrate intake?

But then that would require an understanding of the subject matter rather than just the ability to hit Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, wouldn't it?

It keeps your brain alive.

ana3067 wrote: »

WahachankaKicin wrote: »

ana3067 wrote: »

You can eat however much or little you want that works for your goals. Calories determine weight management, not carbs.

ETA donuts are the best carbs.

It is true that, in a vacuum, all calories are the same. A thousand calories of Coke and a thousand calories of broccoli burned in a laboratory will release the same amount of energy. But all bets are off when you eat the Coke or the broccoli. These foods have to be processed by your metabolism (not a closed system). Coke and broccoli trigger very different biochemical responses in the body—different hormones, neurotransmitters and immune messengers. The Coke will spike blood sugar and insulin and disrupt neurotransmitters, leading to increased hunger and fat storage, while the thousand calories of broccoli will balance blood sugar and make you feel full, cut your appetite and increase fat burning.

This has 0 relevance to how much weight will be lost of the individual eats 2000 calories worth of either, assuming 2000 calories is below their maintenance needs.

But then again, no one ever fracking eats their day's calories in pop or broccoli, so your example seems pretty damn pointless.

MY argument is not pointless, you simply are not reading in the proper context OBVIOUSLY no one would do that, the point is GOOD CARBS VS BAD CARBS- In response to your comment: "You can eat however much or little you want that works for your goals. Calories determine weight management, not carbs. ETA donuts are the best carbs." Do you even know what kind of Vacuum I'm referring too? as stated before " A thousand calories of Coke and a thousand calories of broccoli burned in a>>>> laboratory <<<<will release the same amount of energy. " NO ONE WOULD EAT 1000 CALORIES IN A DAY OF THAT NOTE : LABORATORY. You should really consider actually reading the whole paragraph before posting an ignorant comment, because I was not attacking your statement I was agreeing that all calories release the same amount of energy but there are different biochemical responses in the body with the food that you consume as stated before...Hopefully you understand now. So have a great day!

They used to have a weight loss contest at my husbands work place. The fellow who won each year had nothing but a 6 pack of beer every day. That says a lot.