Confused about carbs

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  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:


    ceoverturf wrote: »
    BritDillinger wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    Medical doctor:

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

    Blog/article.

    If you want I'll make a mock up website, post a picture of myself, call myself a doctor, and post my opinions on the internet in about half an hour.

    Se what I mean!? If the above article went against keto would people be so quick to dismiss it?
    Let me reiterate, i'm not a keto or low carb follower,

    Can't speak for everyone, but I would.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:


    ceoverturf wrote: »
    BritDillinger wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    Medical doctor:

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

    Blog/article.

    If you want I'll make a mock up website, post a picture of myself, call myself a doctor, and post my opinions on the internet in about half an hour.

    Se what I mean!? If the above article went against keto would people be so quick to dismiss it?
    Let me reiterate, i'm not a keto or low carb follower,
    I dismiss any citation of blogs, wiki, etc. Sources matter.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
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    Interesting reading on foods that are high and low on glycemic index. This will give you perspective on how carbs affect your body..

    I am not a diabetic but I did some research on carbs and this definitely gave me some education about carbs and sugar...
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Early mouse study, human trials in the works seeing same results but it explains a lot
    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-03-high-fat-diet-behavior-brain-inflammation.html
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,868 Member
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    Evil *kitten* carbs....

    carbohydrates.gif

    2_d74822_e811493592.jpg

    intro-legumes-photo2.jpg

    wholegrains.jpg

    image_grains.png

    So evil....


  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    edited March 2015
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    BritDillinger wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    Medical doctor:

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/
    Brit, I eat a low carb diet (low enough that I go in and out of ketosis occasionally). I'm extremely low carb/keto friendly because of my own experience. But the diet really, really isn't the-one-true-way to eat. Some people thrive on the diet (especially those with underlying medical conditions) and others don't. It's not for everyone and there's no science suggesting it is.

    You can be enthusiastic about this way of eating if you are, share your experience and leave it at that. I think those who might be interested would find that approach more helpful than claims that can't be substantiated by the current research. Best wishes to you and thanks for sharing so many articles; I'm always interested in what people have to say about low carb/keto. :)

  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    aaand back to basics, does this look about right?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    You can find science and nutrition types who are pro and anti low carb. My impression is that the majority and the mainstream tend to be somewhat anti low carb/keto except for specific medical conditions (cancer, severe seizure disorders), but I'm not convinced that negative view is really grounded in good evidence either--I haven't read anything convincing against low carb except that many people have trouble sticking with it. I think it's great for the right person. (Hmm--Marion Nestle did a piece on Paleo recently where her POV, which would seem to apply to low carb too, wasn't that it's not possible to eat in a healthy fashion on paleo, but that cutting out food groups increases the risk that you will miss out on some essential nutrient.)

    I see zero benefits for myself if you like carbs and are someone for whom it's not so difficult to eat the right amount of calories without going low carb, however, or if your reasons for overeating are unrelated to the usual reasons given for low carb (carbs make you hungry or you struggle with excessive physical hunger).

    Nutrition, Concepts & Controversies, by Frances Sienkiewicz Sizer and Ellie Whitney (a commonly used text for nutrition courses) is one example of the mainstream POV.
  • Charliegottheruns
    Charliegottheruns Posts: 287 Member
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    herrspoons wrote: »
    BritDillinger wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    Medical doctor:

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/04/14/steve-phinney-low-carb-preserves-glycogen-better-than-high-carb/

    Have you answered the question about fructolysis yet? Also, can you explain gluconeogenesis and why your body will continue to produce glucose in the absence of carbohydrate intake?

    But then that would require an understanding of the subject matter rather than just the ability to hit Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, wouldn't it?

    It keeps your brain alive. :)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    BritDillinger wrote: »
    Here, from bodybuilding.com: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm

    Seriously?
    The main benefit being that it increases the body's ability to utilize fats for fuel, which gets very lazy on a high carbohydrate diet.

    You don't need to be doing keto to burn fat for fuel.

    (Also, keto and high carb are obviously not the only choices.)
    Since the body has copious quantities of fat this means that there is no need to oxidize protein to generate glucose through gluconeogenesis.

    As you were asked by another poster, when does this happen. Also, why should I consider it a bad thing?
    Another benefit has to do with the low levels of insulin in the body, which causes greater lipolysis and free glycerol release compared to a normal diet when insulin is around 80-120.

    Why is it beneficial to keep insulin low?

    Also, if I am healthy (insulin sensitive, as I am), why is this a concern? Do you understand what insulin does?
    Another small but very important benefit about the ketogenic diet is that when in the state of ketosis, ketones seem to blunt hunger in many people. I mean honestly, what is not better than being on a low calorie diet and not being hungry all the time like you usually are such as on a high carbohydrate diet.

    I think this is the key for why those who like low carb like low carb, but the question remains, what if you aren't hungry all the time (or don't really have issues with hunger at all)? What if you aren't and don't wish to be on a low cal diet?

    Also, again with the false dichotomy between keto and high carb.
    The last benefit has to do with the fact that a ketone body is an inefficient fuel source due to the fact that when the fatty acid is converted to a KB it contains 7 calories.

    Doesn't sound like that much of a plus.

    As I said before, I think low carb/keto can work well for the right people and I'm happy for those who find it helpful for them. I just think this hard sell of keto as the best or only way to lose weight is a little silly and desperate seeming. Many of us are happier and lose weight happily (or maintain happily) on diets with any number of different possible levels of carbs. I did 40% happily for some time and am now trying 50% (timed around workouts a bit more) to see if it has any benefits for me and how I feel. So far I feel good and no more hungry (and I wasn't hungry before).
  • WahachankaKicin
    WahachankaKicin Posts: 101
    edited March 2015
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    ana3067 wrote: »
    WahachankaKicin wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »
    You can eat however much or little you want that works for your goals. Calories determine weight management, not carbs.

    ETA donuts are the best carbs.


    It is true that, in a vacuum, all calories are the same. A thousand calories of Coke and a thousand calories of broccoli burned in a laboratory will release the same amount of energy. But all bets are off when you eat the Coke or the broccoli. These foods have to be processed by your metabolism (not a closed system). Coke and broccoli trigger very different biochemical responses in the body—different hormones, neurotransmitters and immune messengers. The Coke will spike blood sugar and insulin and disrupt neurotransmitters, leading to increased hunger and fat storage, while the thousand calories of broccoli will balance blood sugar and make you feel full, cut your appetite and increase fat burning.

    This has 0 relevance to how much weight will be lost of the individual eats 2000 calories worth of either, assuming 2000 calories is below their maintenance needs.

    But then again, no one ever fracking eats their day's calories in pop or broccoli, so your example seems pretty damn pointless.



    MY argument is not pointless, you simply are not reading in the proper context OBVIOUSLY no one would do that, the point is GOOD CARBS VS BAD CARBS- In response to your comment: "You can eat however much or little you want that works for your goals. Calories determine weight management, not carbs. ETA donuts are the best carbs." Do you even know what kind of Vacuum I'm referring too? as stated before " A thousand calories of Coke and a thousand calories of broccoli burned in a>>>> laboratory <<<<will release the same amount of energy. " NO ONE WOULD EAT 1000 CALORIES IN A DAY OF THAT NOTE : LABORATORY. You should really consider actually reading the whole paragraph before posting an ignorant comment, because I was not attacking your statement I was agreeing that all calories release the same amount of energy but there are different biochemical responses in the body with the food that you consume as stated before...Hopefully you understand now. So have a great day! :)
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    @britdillinger didn't; you claim in another thread that low carb/keto can be a treatment for cancer? I recall in that thread you posted a bunch of blogs trying to justify your claims….
  • barby6011
    barby6011 Posts: 21 Member
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    They used to have a weight loss contest at my husbands work place. The fellow who won each year had nothing but a 6 pack of beer every day. That says a lot.
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
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    barby6011 wrote: »
    They used to have a weight loss contest at my husbands work place. The fellow who won each year had nothing but a 6 pack of beer every day. That says a lot.

    In for the beer diet.

  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    Are there even any "scientific" papers on keto out there?? Anyone can find pro and con articles, citations etc etc They're only "correct" if one believes what they say :wink:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/
    This one is a review paper and cites a lot of them: http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html


    There are legitimate reasons it's medically prescribed as often as it is. Unfortunately, just like any other WOE or exercise programs, it gets its share of new converts who could pass for religious zealots until they figure out what they're doing.
  • Gianfranco_R
    Gianfranco_R Posts: 1,297 Member
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    mamapeach910 wrote: »
    barby6011 wrote: »
    They used to have a weight loss contest at my husbands work place. The fellow who won each year had nothing but a 6 pack of beer every day. That says a lot.

    In for the beer diet.

    sounds more funny than the twinkie diet :smile:

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