gastric bypass etc
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It's the old 'grass is always greener', or 'until you walk in the other person's shoes' syndrome. Things seem easier on the surface.
Weight loss surgery just shifts the challenges. It makes some things easier. Some things harder. If you have complications, it creates more problems than the regular way to lose weight. And however you do it, the weight will pile back on if you don't learn to manage your intake/outtake and stick with it.0 -
@SergeantSausage , it's to keep it off. Bypass also reverses diabetic symptoms that is not entirely explained from the weight loss. I weighed my options and this was my best chance at a different life.
My surgeon told me that they used to have prospective patients wait two years after they had lost weight on their own to get their surgery, and in nearly every case the patient would have gained the weight back within those two years. Highly demoralising. Nowadays they schedule the surgery shortly after the initial success (loss through diet and exercise alone).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/158193760 -
My wife had a gastric bypass done several years ago and she definitely had to eat small meals, walking, and exercise. It was very hard work for her even with the bypass. She had to loose 25 pounds on her own before the surgeon would even do it, go to several meetings with therapists and support groups, a sleep study, see a nutritionist, and several other things. She also had some problems due to the surgery such as an ulcer, that she had to have 2 more surgeries for. My wife has had to make many sacrifices in this journey. She also has very good advice to offer others IMO, as far as weight loss and eating healthier goes, she has been thru alot and continues to. She has done very well with her health now but it was a struggle for her and our family for quite some time. I am very proud of my wife for all she went thru and how far she has came. OP you are entitled to your opinion and yes you are right it did offend me especially. "Congrats on doing something to be healthier but don't confuse that with the hard work and sacrifice others are going thru". This was very hard work and many sacrifices for all of us especially her.I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm sure I will. That being said, it irritates the $ hit out of me when people that have had surgery to lose weight give advice like eat small meals, walk, whatever. It may all be valid but that's not how you did it so don't tell other people how to do it. Congrats on doing something to be healthier but don't confuse that with the hard work and sacrifice others are going thru.
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Paul, see above, I apologized. You should be proud of your wife.
Sofa..i spent 6 hard years defending the right for me to vent and you to reply but mostly for me to vent......single huh, go figure....-1 -
Paul, see above, I apologized. You should be proud of your wife.
Sofa..i spent 6 hard years defending the right for me to vent and you to reply but mostly for me to vent......single huh, go figure....
Wow, you have problems with single people too?
Why don't you just draft the list of people whose opinions you consider valid? Were you fighting just for your personal right to express your opinion or can people who have had WLS and single people also be in that special group?0 -
i agree. i get annoyed when people who are naturally skinny and don't work out try to give me advice about how to lose weight.0
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Just when I thought this thread was going to fade to black...0
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Congrats on doing something to be healthier but don't confuse that with the hard work and sacrifice others are going thru.
So people who have WLS don't put in hard work or sacrifice anything? That's news to me.
I think you're making huge generalizations and assumptions here.
I understand you're trying to "vent" and all that, but I really think you need to re-examine what you're trying to say.
If you don't want unsolicited advice on weight loss, then tell that person so. Let them do them and you do you. Focus on what you are doing, not what others are doing.0 -
Paul, see above, I apologized. You should be proud of your wife.
Sofa..i spent 6 hard years defending the right for me to vent and you to reply but mostly for me to vent......single huh, go figure....
Was MFP about to fall to the Russians or something?
Did you actually edit your post to delete the phrase "uppity woman"?
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.jgnatca wrote:I had to follow sensible eating and exercise before surgery, and to maintain I must keep it up afterwards.
Me too.SergeantSausage wrote:I gotta ask (no offense) but then: why the surgery?
Just keep up the "sensible eating and exercise" you had to do anyway, right, and then the surgery becomes unnecessary.
I really don't get it.
At all.
If they were able to lose (not "loose") weight by controlling themselves before surgery, at
least enough so someone would do surgery on them, why not continue that? You know it
works, you know you can do it, why throw away your health by permanently changing your
body when it's not necessary? The surgery causes lifelong problems. Weight is temporary.
It does not require a permanent solution, other than eating a reasonable amount of calories
& moving more... which is what was done before surgery.
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Paul, see above, I apologized. You should be proud of your wife.
Sofa..i spent 6 hard years defending the right for me to vent and you to reply but mostly for me to vent......single huh, go figure....
Wow, well you just stuck your foot in your mouth. *smh* I suggest you quit before you insult anyone else!0 -
Anyone who doesn't understand bariatric surgery simply hasn't bothered to read about it. The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the procedure(s) without any controversy in the medical literature. A good starting point for self-reading:
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/files/Bariatric_Surgery/schauerbest.pdf
Two selected stats from that paper:
95% of patients post-op report an improved quality of life - you won't find that among MFP users.
Schauer et al, Annals of Surgery, 2000
Risk of death within 5 years of observation is reduced by 89% in the surgery versus no-surgery cohort of patients.
Christou et al, Annals of Surgery, 20040 -
Of_Monsters_and_Meat wrote: »What hard work and sacrifices have you made op?
Bad choices got me where I was. I started eating better and working out 5 days a week. I would love to eat ice cream everyday and watch tv instead of run most days but I cant do that. Everything wrong with me is my own fault (except for a family of diabetics). I dont blame anyone for my bad choices and I am not having a pity party. I was just venting. Apparently you cant do that on here. I am working hard to improve my health and keep it that way. I'm glad everyone else on here is too. I new this would start a *kitten* storm, just didnt realize it would be so quick and one sided. No worries, 6 years in the Marine Corps gave me thick skin.
You are allowed to vent.
We are allowed to react.
Why do so many people forget this bit?0 -
Anyone who doesn't understand bariatric surgery simply hasn't bothered to read about it. The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the procedure(s) without any controversy in the medical literature. A good starting point for self-reading:
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/files/Bariatric_Surgery/schauerbest.pdf
Two selected stats from that paper:
95% of patients post-op report an improved quality of life - you won't find that among MFP users.
Schauer et al, Annals of Surgery, 2000
Risk of death within 5 years of observation is reduced by 89% in the surgery versus no-surgery cohort of patients.
Christou et al, Annals of Surgery, 2004
Thanks for this. Husband is borderline considering it and complications scare me. A scientific paper goes a long way in my book!0 -
What I've observed in a family member who had gastric bypass surgery: She didn't get less hungry. She didn't get fewer cravings. She didn't become blessed with better habits or a different attitude towards food. She has thrown up in many restaurant parking lots due to eating one bite too many. If she doesn't want to continue that, then she has to do exactly the same thing as people who haven't had the surgery. There is nothing easy about it. Their mind is exactly the same after the surgery as it was before, and the mind is the primary road block to weight loss.0
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I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm sure I will. That being said, it irritates the $ hit out of me when people that have had surgery to lose weight give advice like eat small meals, walk, whatever. It may all be valid but that's not how you did it so don't tell other people how to do it. Congrats on doing something to be healthier but don't confuse that with the hard work and sacrifice others are going thru.
I don’t think surgery is necessarily “easier.” More than couple doctors recommended it for me. In the end I decided not to go that route for a variety of reasons.
I know 2 people that (over the last 12-24 months) had surgery.
One person approached it with the right frame of mind – she knew that surgery was only an initial step and success would require hard work and a lifestyle change. She lost some weight before the surgery and “worked” at her eating / exercise habits after surgery. More than 1 year later she is still doing great and enjoying life.
Sadly – the other person did not do as well. I’m guessing this person thought “the surgery” would control the eating, so they “couldn’t” over eat etc. Lifestyle changes were short-lived. What weight this person had lost was quickly regained (with added poundage) in only a few months.
Surgery or no surgery – eating right & exercising can be a formidable challenge with lots of self-discipline being required. After losing my first 100 pounds, I knew I was going to “make it.” But the true test will be my “maintenance”…
Good luck to you.
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.jgnatca wrote:I had to follow sensible eating and exercise before surgery, and to maintain I must keep it up afterwards.
Me too.SergeantSausage wrote:I gotta ask (no offense) but then: why the surgery?
Just keep up the "sensible eating and exercise" you had to do anyway, right, and then the surgery becomes unnecessary.
I really don't get it.
At all.
If they were able to lose (not "loose") weight by controlling themselves before surgery, at
least enough so someone would do surgery on them, why not continue that? You know it
works, you know you can do it, why throw away your health by permanently changing your
body when it's not necessary? The surgery causes lifelong problems. Weight is temporary.
It does not require a permanent solution, other than eating a reasonable amount of calories
& moving more... which is what was done before surgery.
^^This!0 -
A lot of people are saying surgery is not a quick fix, it doesn't change hunger signals nor the degree of hunger, and that the same work goes into post-WLS as without it: diet and exercise. I think that is why some of us have the confusion as to why the surgery is necessary. I don't think people are trying to be narrow-minded or flippant. We may all be missing something here (that is possible) but if the WLS patient still has to do exactly the same things as s/he would have to do, why did s/he get the surgery...I think that's the question.
I would feel differently if people were saying that at least, the degree of hunger were changed. But without even that...what HAS changed for the patient except that s/he may throw up, etc. from larger portion sizes, especially considering the fact that WLS can and sometimes do "eat around" that factor (by smaller but more frequent meals, for example)?
I hear over and over again, "It is still just as much work." If it is AS MUCH work then why have the surgery that permanently alters your system...I think that's the question here. This is compounded by the fact that in some cases, the reasoning that the patient can't lose weight without WLS opposes the patient being required by his/her doctor to lose X amount of weight pre-surgery, and the patient accomplishing that.
So I don't think these questions are unreasonable, or even uneducated/due to ignorance. The questions make perfect sense.
With that said, I'm happy for anyone who wants to lose weight, and finds a way to do so.-1 -
I don't mean to offend anyone but I'm sure I will. That being said, it irritates the $ hit out of me when people that have had surgery to lose weight give advice like eat small meals, walk, whatever. It may all be valid but that's not how you did it so don't tell other people how to do it. Congrats on doing something to be healthier but don't confuse that with the hard work and sacrifice others are going thru.
I don't know much about WLS, and I don't know anyone who's had it, and I don't think it's that common in England, but I don't think it's like magic, you have the surgery and voilà, you're thin. I'm pretty sure people who have it have to lose a certain amount of weight first, then after the surgery they still need to exercise and eat sensibly. Plus the fact that surgery is so risky doesn't make it an easy option in my book.
I do think that people who resort to surgery probably have emotional issues related to eating and would probably benefit from some sort of counselling to address these issues, because surgery won't make those go away.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Anyone who doesn't understand bariatric surgery simply hasn't bothered to read about it. The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the procedure(s) without any controversy in the medical literature. A good starting point for self-reading:
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/files/Bariatric_Surgery/schauerbest.pdf
Two selected stats from that paper:
95% of patients post-op report an improved quality of life - you won't find that among MFP users.
Schauer et al, Annals of Surgery, 2000
Risk of death within 5 years of observation is reduced by 89% in the surgery versus no-surgery cohort of patients.
Christou et al, Annals of Surgery, 2004
What about total long term loss in total excess weight and recidivism rates?
From the limited reading I've done, whilst there is no doubt that it is effective in taking people out of the weight range that is deemed unhealthy, it doesn't generally bring them to a normal BMI long term.
For example, the paper you quote shows an excess weight loss of 61% on average, meaning that about 40% of excess weight isn't lost.
So, if a person whose ideal body weight is 150 pounds, and who is 250 pounds at time of surgery, they are likely to be 40 pounds overweight long term at 190 pounds.
Yes?
Perhaps you were just pulling numbers out of the air, but no responsible doctor would perform WLS on a250 pound, 5 foot 8 inch person, which is what your example equates to. A better example would be a400 lb person who "only" gets down to 250. And in that hypothetical, it may well be that the health benefits are worth it. Further, the 40%is an average, including the complete failures who eat around the surgery by sipping Mc Donald's milk shakes all day. And those people do exist. The typical weight loss against goal net of the failures is obviously higher.0
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