Going Plant Based Vegan
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This was related to the Mark Hyman link: Why Calories Don’t Matter, which was towards the top of my post, sloppy reply on my part, sorry.Research is also concluding that not all calories are equal.janejellyroll wrote: »What research are you referring to? I clicked on your link, but it was a youtube video.
If you're saying that McDougall's research proves that eating fat will cause one to gain weight, even at a calorie deficit, I would be really interested to see that. I don't think carbohydrates make people fat. I don't think fat makes people fat. You're disagreeing on the very basis of how energy works -- claiming that the body can sustain itself -- or even grow -- while taking in less energy than is burned. This just doesn't make sense.
My understanding is that fats are more readily stored than burned as fuel, the body prefers to carbs or even proteins before fats.
On fat metabolism, Dr McDougall wrote in People Passionate about Starches Are Healthy and BeautifulFat Is the Metabolic Dollar Saved for the Next Famine
After eating, dietary fat (from lard, butter, meat, cheese, nuts, olive oil, etc.) is absorbed from the intestine into the bloodstream and transported to the millions of cells designed for storage—the body fat (adipose) cells. The metabolic cost for this transfer is relatively inexpensive (3% of the calories consumed).[11] No pricey chemical conversion is required, so this is a routine metabolic movement after every typical meal. When samples of a person’s body fat tissue are chemically analyzed the results reveal the kinds of fats which that person commonly eats.[14-17] For example, the consumption of margarine and shortening results in high proportions of “trans” fats in a person’s fatty tissues. A diet with large amounts of cold-water marine fish means omega-3 fats are deposited and stored in the body fat. The saying “from my lips to my hips” expresses the real life effects of the fat-laden Western diet. Fortunately, starches contain very little fat for us to wear.
11) Danforth E Jr. Diet and obesity. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 May;41(5 Suppl):1132-45.
14) Thomas LH, Jones PR, Winter JA, Smith H. Hydrogenated oils and fats: the presence of chemically-modified fatty acids in human adipose tissue. Am J Clin Nutr. 1981 May;34(5):877-86.
15) London SJ, Sacks FM, Caesar J, Stampfer MJ, Siguel E, Willett WC. Fatty acid composition of subcutaneous adipose tissue and diet in postmenopausal US women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1991 Aug;54(2):340-5.
16) Baylin A, Kabagambe EK, Siles X, Campos H. Adipose tissue biomarkers of fatty acid intake. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Oct;76(4):750-7.
17) Brevik A, Veierød MB, Drevon CA, Andersen LF. Evaluation of the odd fatty acids 15:0 and 17:0 in serum and adipose tissue as markers of intake of milk and dairy fat. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2005 Dec;59(12):1417-22.
I also assumed others are familiar with the work of Professor T Colin Campbell and The China Study and Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr, MD, from the Cleveland Clinic, who were featured in the movie Forks Over Knives, Dr Neal Barnard at PCRM, Dean Ornish, MD, Joel Kahn, MD, etc, the leading proponents of low fat (10% or less), whole food, plant based diets for treating obesity, Type-2 Diabetes and heart disease. This approach is also showing promise for MS and other autoimmune disorders.
Thanks for putting up with my babbling.
Back to the OP, I do agree with the Engine-2 Diet - good information, also Forks over Knives, Happy Herbivore (a McDougall follower), Dreena Burton (sp?), and I'm checking out "The Starch Solution" page on FaceBook (also a McDougall follower).0 -
Priceless, fat makes you fat. Brain feedback loop engaged.
This was related to the Mark Hyman link: Why Calories Don’t Matter, which was towards the top of my post, sloppy reply on my part, sorry.Research is also concluding that not all calories are equal.janejellyroll wrote: »What research are you referring to? I clicked on your link, but it was a youtube video.
If you're saying that McDougall's research proves that eating fat will cause one to gain weight, even at a calorie deficit, I would be really interested to see that. I don't think carbohydrates make people fat. I don't think fat makes people fat. You're disagreeing on the very basis of how energy works -- claiming that the body can sustain itself -- or even grow -- while taking in less energy than is burned. This just doesn't make sense.
My understanding is that fats are more readily stored than burned as fuel, the body prefers to carbs or even proteins before fats.
On fat metabolism, Dr McDougall wrote in People Passionate about Starches Are Healthy and BeautifulFat Is the Metabolic Dollar Saved for the Next Famine
After eating, dietary fat (from lard, butter, meat, cheese, nuts, olive oil, etc.) is absorbed from the intestine into the bloodstream and transported to the millions of cells designed for storage—the body fat (adipose) cells. The metabolic cost for this transfer is relatively inexpensive (3% of the calories consumed).[11] No pricey chemical conversion is required, so this is a routine metabolic movement after every typical meal. When samples of a person’s body fat tissue are chemically analyzed the results reveal the kinds of fats which that person commonly eats.[14-17] For example, the consumption of margarine and shortening results in high proportions of “trans” fats in a person’s fatty tissues. A diet with large amounts of cold-water marine fish means omega-3 fats are deposited and stored in the body fat. The saying “from my lips to my hips” expresses the real life effects of the fat-laden Western diet. Fortunately, starches contain very little fat for us to wear.
11) Danforth E Jr. Diet and obesity. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 May;41(5 Suppl):1132-45.
14) Thomas LH, Jones PR, Winter JA, Smith H. Hydrogenated oils and fats: the presence of chemically-modified fatty acids in human adipose tissue. Am J Clin Nutr. 1981 May;34(5):877-86.
15) London SJ, Sacks FM, Caesar J, Stampfer MJ, Siguel E, Willett WC. Fatty acid composition of subcutaneous adipose tissue and diet in postmenopausal US women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1991 Aug;54(2):340-5.
16) Baylin A, Kabagambe EK, Siles X, Campos H. Adipose tissue biomarkers of fatty acid intake. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Oct;76(4):750-7.
17) Brevik A, Veierød MB, Drevon CA, Andersen LF. Evaluation of the odd fatty acids 15:0 and 17:0 in serum and adipose tissue as markers of intake of milk and dairy fat. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2005 Dec;59(12):1417-22.
I also assumed others are familiar with the work of Professor T Colin Campbell and The China Study and Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr, MD, from the Cleveland Clinic, who were featured in the movie Forks Over Knives, Dr Neal Barnard at PCRM, Dean Ornish, MD, Joel Kahn, MD, etc, the leading proponents of low fat (10% or less), whole food, plant based diets for treating obesity, Type-2 Diabetes and heart disease. This approach is also showing promise for MS and other autoimmune disorders.
Thanks for putting up with my babbling.
Back to the OP, I do agree with the Engine-2 Diet - good information, also Forks over Knives, Happy Herbivore (a McDougall follower), Dreena Burton (sp?), and I'm checking out "The Starch Solution" page on FaceBook (also a McDougall follower).
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janejellyroll wrote: »gparfitt09 wrote: ». Soy is also one of the most processed foods in America so steering away from it is best.
What does this mean? Soy can be processed to varying degrees. You can eat the soy bean, tempeh, tofu, soy milk, or textured vegetable protein -- all of these are processed to different levels. "Soy" is not a single food.
I am not even sure why it is "best" to stay away from processed foods. What in tempeh is going to be harmful to me?
Processed meaning contains other chemicals. Pesticides, GMO's, potentially other harmful substances like antibiotics, etc. If you do the research you will learn how soy is one of the top foods containing these harmful things that are being added to the soy products. You should also do research what processed foods do to the body, it's not pretty and is very disturbing. Knowledge is power. Yes you may not see an immediate effect, although you might with feeling sick momentarily, but in the long scheme it will affect your body negatively. Our bodies aren't meant to process unnatural chemicals and it will create an adverse effect to some extent.0 -
gparfitt09 wrote: »
Processed meaning contains other chemicals. Pesticides, GMO's, potentially other harmful substances like antibiotics, etc. If you do the research you will learn how soy is one of the top foods containing these harmful things that are being added to the soy products... . Our bodies aren't meant to process unnatural chemicals and it will create an adverse effect to some extent.
Can you please give me an example of when antibiotics have been found in any soy product?
Your posts have a lot of really scary words, but they are also very vague. I gave you an example of a specific food - - tempeh - - and asked what could be harmful about it. What research could I do to learn what harm has has been linked to it?
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gparfitt09 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »gparfitt09 wrote: ». Soy is also one of the most processed foods in America so steering away from it is best.
What does this mean? Soy can be processed to varying degrees. You can eat the soy bean, tempeh, tofu, soy milk, or textured vegetable protein -- all of these are processed to different levels. "Soy" is not a single food.
I am not even sure why it is "best" to stay away from processed foods. What in tempeh is going to be harmful to me?
Processed meaning contains other chemicals. Pesticides, GMO's, potentially other harmful substances like antibiotics, etc. If you do the research you will learn how soy is one of the top foods containing these harmful things that are being added to the soy products. You should also do research what processed foods do to the body, it's not pretty and is very disturbing. Knowledge is power. Yes you may not see an immediate effect, although you might with feeling sick momentarily, but in the long scheme it will affect your body negatively. Our bodies aren't meant to process unnatural chemicals and it will create an adverse effect to some extent.
What other chemicals? And all plants have pesticides on them, even and especially the organic ones.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.0 -
I'll agree with the concept of 'healthy fats' but there is no such thing as a healthy oil. Oils are a processed food, it is better to consume the fat in the original package: coconut, olives, avocado.
Arterial function following high fat vs low fat meal, over 6-hour time period:
High fat meal: Egg McMuffin®, Sausage McMuffin®, 2 hash brown patties, and an unspecified beverage.
Fat-free meal: Frosted Flakes®, skimmed milk, and orange juice.
Additionally, Oils damage endothelial cells - the inner lining of blood vessels, inhibiting vasodilation. Increasing saturated fats on top of this increases the risk of developing atherosclerosis, arterial plaque, heart disease, and
stroke.
YouTube: Olive Oil Is Not Healthy - Michael Klaper MD
The Newest Food-Cure: Coconut Oil for Health and VitalityDr McDougall wrote:My conclusion is that coconut is a natural plant food which can have a small place in most people’s diets. As a whole food the oils are combined with the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and other plant components in a way that makes them safe. When the oil is removed by processing from its natural surroundings then it becomes a medicine at best and a toxin at worst—just like other oils (corn oil removed from corn, olive oil removed from olives, etc.) The more processing— the worse the oil.
If you decide to include this high fat food in your diet; then realize that coconut is very rich, packed with calories and fats. You will likely gain weight if this becomes a big part of your diet. People with weight-dependent diseases, like type 2 diabetes and degenerative arthritis of the lower extremities should be very careful about including coconut in any form. Otherwise, as a condiment—like other nuts and seeds—coconut will add unique flavors to your meals and provide quality nutrients. Just think of it as a treat. Have you ever tried to open a coconut? One reason they are packaged in such hard shells may be to keep people from eating too much of a good thing.
Remember: “The fat you eat is the fat you wear.”
you're wrong.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.
This thread is really disturbing to me. There are a lot of "plant based" people who don't seem to care about the real harm their advice can do to people with EDs and use vague pseudoscience to inspire fear. Veganism as an ethical position has nothing to do with promoting fear about "processed food" or obvious untruths like "the fat you eat is the fat you wear." I've been in dozens of conversations like this and keep getting told to look at the "research" (which is often just a youtube video full of fearmongering or half-truths).
So basically, a person with an ED is being told to avoid "processed food," soy, oils, foods with fat, non-organic foods, and foods that aren't "fresh fruits and vegetables." This is on top of restricting dairy, meat, eggs, and other animal products. The lack of compassion is astonishing. The irresponsibility angers me.
It's personally distressing to me that this is helping form perceptions of veganism. I try not to take things seriously online, but there are people in this thread who need to step back and do thinking about the type of person they are and what they want to contribute to the world.
I want to reiterate for everyone reading this thread that veganism is not about hurting yourself. It's about avoiding animal exploitation to the extent that is possible and practicable -- and if you are currently struggling with an ED, your treatment must come first. This means that if additional restrictions are going to trigger you, it is okay to focus on your treatment. The additional restrictions that are rolled into "plant based" eating often border on orthorexia themselves and lack a foundation in what research has shown us to be true about the types of diets that are nourishing for humans.
Ugh. Just ugh.0 -
I'll agree with the concept of 'healthy fats' but there is no such thing as a healthy oil. Oils are a processed food, it is better to consume the fat in the original package: coconut, olives, avocado.
Arterial function following high fat vs low fat meal, over 6-hour time period:
High fat meal: Egg McMuffin®, Sausage McMuffin®, 2 hash brown patties, and an unspecified beverage.
Fat-free meal: Frosted Flakes®, skimmed milk, and orange juice.
Additionally, Oils damage endothelial cells - the inner lining of blood vessels, inhibiting vasodilation. Increasing saturated fats on top of this increases the risk of developing atherosclerosis, arterial plaque, heart disease, and
stroke.
YouTube: Olive Oil Is Not Healthy - Michael Klaper MD
The Newest Food-Cure: Coconut Oil for Health and VitalityDr McDougall wrote:My conclusion is that coconut is a natural plant food which can have a small place in most people’s diets. As a whole food the oils are combined with the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and other plant components in a way that makes them safe. When the oil is removed by processing from its natural surroundings then it becomes a medicine at best and a toxin at worst—just like other oils (corn oil removed from corn, olive oil removed from olives, etc.) The more processing— the worse the oil.
If you decide to include this high fat food in your diet; then realize that coconut is very rich, packed with calories and fats. You will likely gain weight if this becomes a big part of your diet. People with weight-dependent diseases, like type 2 diabetes and degenerative arthritis of the lower extremities should be very careful about including coconut in any form. Otherwise, as a condiment—like other nuts and seeds—coconut will add unique flavors to your meals and provide quality nutrients. Just think of it as a treat. Have you ever tried to open a coconut? One reason they are packaged in such hard shells may be to keep people from eating too much of a good thing.
Remember: “The fat you eat is the fat you wear.”
you're wrong.
Jo, I know your busy... But why is that wrong?
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.
This thread is really disturbing to me. There are a lot of "plant based" people who don't seem to care about the real harm their advice can do to people with EDs and use vague pseudoscience to inspire fear. Veganism as an ethical position has nothing to do with promoting fear about "processed food" or obvious untruths like "the fat you eat is the fat you wear." I've been in dozens of conversations like this and keep getting told to look at the "research" (which is often just a youtube video full of fearmongering or half-truths).
So basically, a person with an ED is being told to avoid "processed food," soy, oils, foods with fat, non-organic foods, and foods that aren't "fresh fruits and vegetables." This is on top of restricting dairy, meat, eggs, and other animal products. The lack of compassion is astonishing. The irresponsibility angers me.
It's personally distressing to me that this is helping form perceptions of veganism. I try not to take things seriously online, but there are people in this thread who need to step back and do thinking about the type of person they are and what they want to contribute to the world.
I want to reiterate for everyone reading this thread that veganism is not about hurting yourself. It's about avoiding animal exploitation to the extent that is possible and practicable -- and if you are currently struggling with an ED, your treatment must come first. This means that if additional restrictions are going to trigger you, it is okay to focus on your treatment. The additional restrictions that are rolled into "plant based" eating often border on orthorexia themselves and lack a foundation in what research has shown us to be true about the types of diets that are nourishing for humans.
Ugh. Just ugh.
Seriously- I was afraid to speak up given that I'm NOT a vegan- but the thought of putting something fairly restrictive on someone who already has issues with food is a SCARY SCARY thought- so I'm REALLY glad you spoke up. Because that's just an avalanche of wrong waiting to happen.Jo, I know your busy... But why is that wrong?
Because the fat you eat is just delicious fat.
It only makes you fat if it's swallowing your calorie content whole. That was what I was referring to... the whole "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" comment.0 -
Oh ok. I tend to believe anyone who has charts/graphs. I wish I was kidding!
Also big science words.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.
This thread is really disturbing to me. There are a lot of "plant based" people who don't seem to care about the real harm their advice can do to people with EDs and use vague pseudoscience to inspire fear. Veganism as an ethical position has nothing to do with promoting fear about "processed food" or obvious untruths like "the fat you eat is the fat you wear." I've been in dozens of conversations like this and keep getting told to look at the "research" (which is often just a youtube video full of fearmongering or half-truths).
So basically, a person with an ED is being told to avoid "processed food," soy, oils, foods with fat, non-organic foods, and foods that aren't "fresh fruits and vegetables." This is on top of restricting dairy, meat, eggs, and other animal products. The lack of compassion is astonishing. The irresponsibility angers me.
It's personally distressing to me that this is helping form perceptions of veganism. I try not to take things seriously online, but there are people in this thread who need to step back and do thinking about the type of person they are and what they want to contribute to the world.
I want to reiterate for everyone reading this thread that veganism is not about hurting yourself. It's about avoiding animal exploitation to the extent that is possible and practicable -- and if you are currently struggling with an ED, your treatment must come first. This means that if additional restrictions are going to trigger you, it is okay to focus on your treatment. The additional restrictions that are rolled into "plant based" eating often border on orthorexia themselves and lack a foundation in what research has shown us to be true about the types of diets that are nourishing for humans.
Ugh. Just ugh.
Seriously- I was afraid to speak up given that I'm NOT a vegan- but the thought of putting something fairly restrictive on someone who already has issues with food is a SCARY SCARY thought- so I'm REALLY glad you spoke up. Because that's just an avalanche of wrong waiting to happen.Jo, I know your busy... But why is that wrong?
Because the fat you eat is just delicious fat.
It only makes you fat if it's swallowing your calorie content whole. That was what I was referring to... the whole "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" comment.
Here's something a little more scientific.
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/98/3/677.full
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19632695
Stick around Janejellyroll, your vegan community needs you.
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neanderthin wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.
This thread is really disturbing to me. There are a lot of "plant based" people who don't seem to care about the real harm their advice can do to people with EDs and use vague pseudoscience to inspire fear. Veganism as an ethical position has nothing to do with promoting fear about "processed food" or obvious untruths like "the fat you eat is the fat you wear." I've been in dozens of conversations like this and keep getting told to look at the "research" (which is often just a youtube video full of fearmongering or half-truths).
So basically, a person with an ED is being told to avoid "processed food," soy, oils, foods with fat, non-organic foods, and foods that aren't "fresh fruits and vegetables." This is on top of restricting dairy, meat, eggs, and other animal products. The lack of compassion is astonishing. The irresponsibility angers me.
It's personally distressing to me that this is helping form perceptions of veganism. I try not to take things seriously online, but there are people in this thread who need to step back and do thinking about the type of person they are and what they want to contribute to the world.
I want to reiterate for everyone reading this thread that veganism is not about hurting yourself. It's about avoiding animal exploitation to the extent that is possible and practicable -- and if you are currently struggling with an ED, your treatment must come first. This means that if additional restrictions are going to trigger you, it is okay to focus on your treatment. The additional restrictions that are rolled into "plant based" eating often border on orthorexia themselves and lack a foundation in what research has shown us to be true about the types of diets that are nourishing for humans.
Ugh. Just ugh.
Seriously- I was afraid to speak up given that I'm NOT a vegan- but the thought of putting something fairly restrictive on someone who already has issues with food is a SCARY SCARY thought- so I'm REALLY glad you spoke up. Because that's just an avalanche of wrong waiting to happen.Jo, I know your busy... But why is that wrong?
Because the fat you eat is just delicious fat.
It only makes you fat if it's swallowing your calorie content whole. That was what I was referring to... the whole "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" comment.
Here's something a little more scientific.
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/98/3/677.full
Stick around Janejellyroll, your vegan community needs you.
Thanks, that made me smile.0 -
Do what feels best for your body and makes sense in your mind. Forget the rest. Forge ahead. I highly recommend Forks Over Knives -- website and cookbook. I've been 95% vegan (still eat fish now and then) for almost 3 years and vegetarian for over 20 years. I love how much better my body feels. I've never regretted it. Follow your own path.0
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I have none of that at work. Because- can't/won't/don't.melimomTARDIS wrote: »Oh ok. I tend to believe anyone who has charts/graphs. I wish I was kidding!
Also big science words.
Sorry. LOLStick around Janejellyroll, your vegan community needs you.
nods. again.0 -
Do what feels best for your body and makes sense in your mind. Forget the rest. Forge ahead. I highly recommend Forks Over Knives -- website and cookbook. I've been 95% vegan (still eat fish now and then) for almost 3 years and vegetarian for over 20 years. I love how much better my body feels. I've never regretted it. Follow your own path.
I don't want to undermine anyone's agency, but if one has an ED doing what "makes sense in your mind" and forgetting the rest may not be a path to good health. I know I made some decisions in the past that made perfect sense to me in the moment and that I thought were making me feel good, but were a product of my own disordered thinking around food.
Following your own path is great when you have an authentic connection to your feelings of satiety and hunger.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Do what feels best for your body and makes sense in your mind. Forget the rest. Forge ahead. I highly recommend Forks Over Knives -- website and cookbook. I've been 95% vegan (still eat fish now and then) for almost 3 years and vegetarian for over 20 years. I love how much better my body feels. I've never regretted it. Follow your own path.
I don't want to undermine anyone's agency, but if one has an ED doing what "makes sense in your mind" and forgetting the rest may not be a path to good health. I know I made some decisions in the past that made perfect sense to me in the moment and that I thought were making me feel good, but were a product of my own disordered thinking around food.
Following your own path is great when you have an authentic connection to your feelings of satiety and hunger.
I have an anxiety disorder, and if I did what felt right, I'd probably live like Howard Hughes did. I instead must do things that make me feel uncomfortable and challenged, in order to be a functional person.0 -
Agree. Talk to HEALTHY vegans/vegetarians, especially athletic ones. You can be fat and unhealthy no matter what the diet if you aren't eating nutritiously. The most nutritious food you can eat, every day, is your goal to staying healthy, fit and active. Health is your #1 goal; weight loss is only part of good health. I still recommend Forks Over Knives (good recipe book, too) and Eat To Live cookbook, Helyn's Healthy Kitchen, and Vegetarian Times (lots of great recipes there). Happy eating!claire_ouellette wrote: »Recently I've decided to go plant based! Looking for others who also are plant based vegan.. And if love to hear some advice for newbies like me
Look for reputable websites that explain the lifestyle. Talk one on one with people who have been actively using the lifestyle for a few years and who are healthy.
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Agree. Talk to HEALTHY vegans/vegetarians, especially athletic ones. You can be fat and unhealthy no matter what the diet if you aren't eating nutritiously. The most nutritious food you can eat, every day, is your goal to staying healthy, fit and active. Health is your #1 goal; weight loss is only part of good health. I still recommend Forks Over Knives (good recipe book, too) and Eat To Live cookbook, Helyn's Healthy Kitchen, and Vegetarian Times (lots of great recipes there). Happy eating!claire_ouellette wrote: »Recently I've decided to go plant based! Looking for others who also are plant based vegan.. And if love to hear some advice for newbies like me
Look for reputable websites that explain the lifestyle. Talk one on one with people who have been actively using the lifestyle for a few years and who are healthy.
Assuming I am eating my macro and micro goals, why must I choose the most nutritious food at every opportunity? If I eat a bowl of black bean chili for dinner, what's the problem with having a scoop of coconut milk ice cream afterwards? If I have some oatmeal, what's wrong with stirring in some Earth Balance or maple syrup?0 -
claire_ouellette wrote: »
I'm not pro vegan or anti vegan, but I do understand ED.
A lot of people with eating disorders toy with vegetarianism and veganism as a means to cut food out of their diet in a way that is socially acceptable. I would evaluate why you really think veganism is for you to make sure you aren't doing it for the wrong reasons - or to perpetuate an ED.0 -
Good luck! I am plant based, but not 100% but pretty close when I'm on plan, and its whole foods, not junk food vegan. I do it because I believe it is healthy, and it works for me. Like you, I struggle with binging (even though I am only slightly overweight). I don't do well with moderation and counting calories or macros. I like that I can eat all I want within these guidelines, and I lose weight. And I don't seem to get overly obsessed. And if I do cheat or have a binge, it seems easier to get back on track.
These are all reasons why it works for ME. Good luck, there is a lot of good advice from the previous posters.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »claire_ouellette wrote: »
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who is more pro-vegan than I am. I have been vegan for nine years and I think that it is possible to thrive as a vegan. That said, it is not a cure for ED. Layering food restrictions (which, even from a positive POV, veganism is) on top of an ED can be dangerous.
There are some inspirational stories of vegans who have overcome EDs. If you are interested in reading more, I would suggest the "Green Recovery" series of posts on Gena Hamshaw's "Choosing Raw" blog (she doesn't advocate for a fully raw diet, just suggests ways to add more raw foods to the diet). There are also lots of people who found adding veganism to an ED made their physical and emotional health worse. My concern is that you would complicate your recovery and potentially set yourself back.
Focus on getting better. Veganism will be here when you're ready.janejellyroll wrote: »
So now the big thing. ..will you lose weight with a vegan diet?! Yes or no. It depends how you eat! There are plenty of vegan junk foods out there that with the exception of being animal friendly are no better nutritionally than a McDonald's. So avoid all the vegan hotdogs and fried "chicken" nuggets and other foods and go straight to the fresh veg and fruits! I opt for organic foods...as so many scary pesticides are used these days... I also limit soy because of the high estrogen levels. I feel like I get much more hormonal with too much soy...
If someone is struggling with an ED, suggesting additional restrictions (avoiding "vegan junk foods") may do them harm. We don't know OP's weight. Calorie dense foods may be just what she needs. Restricting her diet to fresh vegetables and fruits may not be healthy.
nod nods nods nods nods nods nods
To all of these above.
Seriously.
This thread is really disturbing to me. There are a lot of "plant based" people who don't seem to care about the real harm their advice can do to people with EDs and use vague pseudoscience to inspire fear. Veganism as an ethical position has nothing to do with promoting fear about "processed food" or obvious untruths like "the fat you eat is the fat you wear." I've been in dozens of conversations like this and keep getting told to look at the "research" (which is often just a youtube video full of fearmongering or half-truths).
So basically, a person with an ED is being told to avoid "processed food," soy, oils, foods with fat, non-organic foods, and foods that aren't "fresh fruits and vegetables." This is on top of restricting dairy, meat, eggs, and other animal products. The lack of compassion is astonishing. The irresponsibility angers me.
It's personally distressing to me that this is helping form perceptions of veganism. I try not to take things seriously online, but there are people in this thread who need to step back and do thinking about the type of person they are and what they want to contribute to the world.
I want to reiterate for everyone reading this thread that veganism is not about hurting yourself. It's about avoiding animal exploitation to the extent that is possible and practicable -- and if you are currently struggling with an ED, your treatment must come first. This means that if additional restrictions are going to trigger you, it is okay to focus on your treatment. The additional restrictions that are rolled into "plant based" eating often border on orthorexia themselves and lack a foundation in what research has shown us to be true about the types of diets that are nourishing for humans.
Ugh. Just ugh.
good post. to the OP, I don't have an ED, but I know certain behaviors that I personally have, and how this works for me. Only you know your triggers and your ED. Tread carefully if this will cause more harm than good for you.
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If you eat soy just be sure it is non-GMO!!!!!0
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Blue zone is a good place to look for societies that live the longest which has nothing to do with dietary intervention, but their social network and lifestyle that determines long and healthful lives. Within the blue zone there is one group that practices plant based foods, but again this isn't force adopted, it's just the way that particular society exists. Forks over knives to me is a propaganda film and Furhmans diet is extremely restrictive with practically no fat that if followed to the letter requires supplementation intervention and not exactly how a society thrives in the real world.
Agree. Talk to HEALTHY vegans/vegetarians, especially athletic ones. You can be fat and unhealthy no matter what the diet if you aren't eating nutritiously. The most nutritious food you can eat, every day, is your goal to staying healthy, fit and active. Health is your #1 goal; weight loss is only part of good health. I still recommend Forks Over Knives (good recipe book, too) and Eat To Live cookbook, Helyn's Healthy Kitchen, and Vegetarian Times (lots of great recipes there). Happy eating!claire_ouellette wrote: »Recently I've decided to go plant based! Looking for others who also are plant based vegan.. And if love to hear some advice for newbies like me
Look for reputable websites that explain the lifestyle. Talk one on one with people who have been actively using the lifestyle for a few years and who are healthy.
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So. I'm still trying to understand what plant based vegan is.0
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