Food as a addiction?
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amusedmonkey wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
But is it really horrible? Is it horrible to point out that she is not as powerless as she believes she is? That she has the power to change whatever she thinks has power over her? That recognizing the root of the problem would ultimately help her more than avoiding it? Doesn't knowledge get better results and make for better support than random uninformative pats on the back?
There's a really really big assumption in there.
I don't believe that everyone does have that power - all the evidence we have says not everyone has that power - so if (IF) she doesn't, telling her to "try harder" isn't going to solve anything, and may well make things worse.
There's just no way to know from comments on an anonymous chat board.
But "try harder" isn't what is being said. You can keep trying harder and arrive at the same results if you don't rethink your approach. The strategy being used will always depend on the source of the problem. Random solutions will get random results. I don't believe anyone is powerless, just that they haven't found the right way yet. Even real addicts can overcome their problems with the right tools and mindset.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »It's a great excuse. But that's what it is: an excuse.
Rationalise your failure all you like. It's still failure by choice.
I agree with this. I think people saying they are food addicts is a way for them to rationalize their choice to overeat. And this is coming from someone who USED to believe in food addiction...I even used to label myself a food addict. Now I realize I was never addicted...it was an excuse I was making. That and the fact that I have worked in drug treatment facilities with real addicts. What I thought was food addiction didn't even compare to what those people go through. You can modify your attitude and behavior with food...it just takes a bit of time. And you have to really want to do it and not make excuses anymore.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
But is it really horrible? Is it horrible to point out that she is not as powerless as she believes she is? That she has the power to change whatever she thinks has power over her? That recognizing the root of the problem would ultimately help her more than avoiding it? Doesn't knowledge get better results and make for better support than random uninformative pats on the back?
There's a really really big assumption in there.
I don't believe that everyone does have that power - all the evidence we have says not everyone has that power - so if (IF) she doesn't, telling her to "try harder" isn't going to solve anything, and may well make things worse.
There's just no way to know from comments on an anonymous chat board.
But "try harder" isn't what is being said. You can keep trying harder and arrive at the same results if you don't rethink your approach. The strategy being used will always depend on the source of the problem. Random solutions will get random results. I don't believe anyone is powerless, just that they haven't found the right way yet. Even real addicts can overcome their problems with the right tools and mindset.
Cosigned
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herrspoons wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
We are. Unless someone is spouting utter bulls**t.
The PhD in Psychology said the science is still out. That does not equate to bulls**t.
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chadboyer64 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
We are. Unless someone is spouting utter bulls**t.
The PhD in Psychology said the science is still out. That does not equate to bulls**t.
Still out about a very specific subset of binge eating disorder, which has nothing to do with the claimed addiction to sugar or self-diagnosing with food addiction as a way to justify failure.0 -
chadboyer64 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
We are. Unless someone is spouting utter bulls**t.
The PhD in Psychology said the science is still out. That does not equate to bulls**t.
She also stated that she didn't think abstinence, which promoted powerlessness, was a good approach.
The OP was selective in her abstinence anyway, making her claims of "addiction" highly dubious.
Addicted to carbs but still eats pretzels and corn chips?
Sorry, not buying it.
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chadboyer64 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
We are. Unless someone is spouting utter bulls**t.
The PhD in Psychology said the science is still out. That does not equate to bulls**t.
She said: "If food addiction exists, it is thought to be a subset of people with BED who would have food addiction."
That is very different than the claims here, where people who don't even seem to have BED want to blame "addiction" for the fact that they have trouble not overeating foods that they happen to find extremely palatable.
That humans find tasty foods pleasurable and thus want to continue eating them, beyond what our strict nutrient needs are, does not require an "addiction" explanation.
That some people have more trouble moderating due to all sorts of emotional issues that we tie up with eating is also not "addiction." (Ironically, I think what would help a lot of people is getting rid of all this and adopting a radically logical approach to food--not good and bad, shameful or not depending on what's consumed and how well controlled you are, not in need of excuse if you happen to have overeaten and gained weight. Good people can eat diets that are less than ideal from a nutrient standpoint without having to justify it by claiming to be addicts. They can just enjoy the food or have normal human difficulty with short term vs. long term decisions.)
Bingeing goes way beyond having trouble not overeating or desiring foods that you think of as "bad" or not that healthy, and in any case ISN'T about the properties of the foods, as this "worse than crack!" nonsense would have it, but is a particular kind of eating disorder.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't believe anyone is powerless, just that they haven't found the right way yet.
Right. That's a belief, and one that not everybody shares. Personally I believe that there are in fact people who are powerless, and there is no "right way" for them to find.
Helping those people requires a completely different approach....Even real addicts can overcome their problems with the right tools and mindset.
Not all of them.0 -
Again, what do you mean by powerless here?
Powerless in the addiction context (which is actually a way to achieve a certain positive goal)? Or genuinely powerless as in cannot stop overeating?0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't believe anyone is powerless, just that they haven't found the right way yet.
Right. That's a belief, and one that not everybody shares. Personally I believe that there are in fact people who are powerless, and there is no "right way" for them to find.
Helping those people requires a completely different approach....Even real addicts can overcome their problems with the right tools and mindset.
Not all of them.
So you also believe there are people who are doomed to be obese because they are powerless to change it because not all of them succeed?0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't believe anyone is powerless, just that they haven't found the right way yet.
Right. That's a belief, and one that not everybody shares. Personally I believe that there are in fact people who are powerless, and there is no "right way" for them to find.
Helping those people requires a completely different approach....Even real addicts can overcome their problems with the right tools and mindset.
Not all of them.
So you also believe there are people who are doomed to be obese because they are powerless to change it because not all of them succeed?
Yes (unless you physically prevent them from having access to food).
Just as there are people who will never kick a heroin habit or <insert favourite Really Bad Addiction>.
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I am not new to weight loss. I have a life long history of losing and gaining weight. I know the facts and the rules and in the end it is about balance, moderation and exercise. The most recent realization I have come to accept is that I am addict. YES. I am addicted to Food. In particular sugar,(and all the things sweeten by it) and bread type carbs.
about 3 1/2 years ago, I was considering a surgical intervention for weight loss, but my insurance did not cover intervention for obesity. I had gone to preliminary meeting, and heard about what was expect of someone who had the surgery, how and what they were expected to eat.
I met with my doctor and had serious discussion, about my Weight. she made a simple statement" sugar you just can not have it" that when a light really lit up.
the diet post surgery was eat every 2hours, protein first, veggies and fruits.. no sugar sweets etc..
I chose to eat no white potato, no rice/ pasta. sweet potato was ok
to only eat bread that was high protein and fiber based. and my 2 indulges corn chips, and fat free pretzels. I decided 3 bread type carb per day only.
I stopped eating ALL cookies, cakes, brownies, sweets of any kinds, any breads other the approved choices. I filled out my plate with protein and fruits and veggies.
I did not weight and measure my food, I ate until I was full. and snacked often. I did not feel deprived at all.. I loss 67 lbs and felt good. I added exercise after losing 40 pounds
I kept it off 2 years. then stress hit my life, I slowly starting adding those food back into my life( my old coping techniques, it made me feel good in moment, )
at first it was ok, then it began to slip out of control. just like a boozer at the bar.
I have now gain it back and am back on the wagon.
So when someone ask if not eating certain types of food will help with weight loss. Yes, because when food is addition. Like any addict you can not do just a little of your feel good thing. IT will pull you back in. some of us have trigger foods/ or food groups
I know this is a familiar story .. to many.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.
While I never faced the issues you faced, the part I bolded really resonated with me, because that was key for me as well. A lot of my emotional issues manifested themselves in ways that had nothing to do with food. Food was just one coping mechanism, and a sign of a larger problem.
samesies. binge eating is something I do in response to outside stimuli, as a crappy coping mechanism.
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I am not new to weight loss. I have a life long history of losing and gaining weight. I know the facts and the rules and in the end it is about balance, moderation and exercise. The most recent realization I have come to accept is that I am addict. YES. I am addicted to Food. In particular sugar,(and all the things sweeten by it) and bread type carbs.
about 3 1/2 years ago, I was considering a surgical intervention for weight loss, but my insurance did not cover intervention for obesity. I had gone to preliminary meeting, and heard about what was expect of someone who had the surgery, how and what they were expected to eat.
I met with my doctor and had serious discussion, about my Weight. she made a simple statement" sugar you just can not have it" that when a light really lit up.
the diet post surgery was eat every 2hours, protein first, veggies and fruits.. no sugar sweets etc..
I chose to eat no white potato, no rice/ pasta. sweet potato was ok
to only eat bread that was high protein and fiber based. and my 2 indulges corn chips, and fat free pretzels. I decided 3 bread type carb per day only.
I stopped eating ALL cookies, cakes, brownies, sweets of any kinds, any breads other the approved choices. I filled out my plate with protein and fruits and veggies.
I did not weight and measure my food, I ate until I was full. and snacked often. I did not feel deprived at all.. I loss 67 lbs and felt good. I added exercise after losing 40 pounds
I kept it off 2 years. then stress hit my life, I slowly starting adding those food back into my life( my old coping techniques, it made me feel good in moment, )
at first it was ok, then it began to slip out of control. just like a boozer at the bar.
I have now gain it back and am back on the wagon.
So when someone ask if not eating certain types of food will help with weight loss. Yes, because when food is addition. Like any addict you can not do just a little of your feel good thing. IT will pull you back in. some of us have trigger foods/ or food groups
I know this is a familiar story .. to many.
Don't listen to all the meanies. In my opinion you're right and wrong. You sound addicted, not to the food, but the feeling it gives you. You said "old
Coping habits" that's exactly what it is. I recommend if you end up see a terapist (nothing wrong in that!) don't go for the food, instead figure out what it is you're trying to cope with, once you have that knowledge than kick it's butt!!0 -
Smiley_Emi123 wrote: »I am not new to weight loss. I have a life long history of losing and gaining weight. I know the facts and the rules and in the end it is about balance, moderation and exercise. The most recent realization I have come to accept is that I am addict. YES. I am addicted to Food. In particular sugar,(and all the things sweeten by it) and bread type carbs.
about 3 1/2 years ago, I was considering a surgical intervention for weight loss, but my insurance did not cover intervention for obesity. I had gone to preliminary meeting, and heard about what was expect of someone who had the surgery, how and what they were expected to eat.
I met with my doctor and had serious discussion, about my Weight. she made a simple statement" sugar you just can not have it" that when a light really lit up.
the diet post surgery was eat every 2hours, protein first, veggies and fruits.. no sugar sweets etc..
I chose to eat no white potato, no rice/ pasta. sweet potato was ok
to only eat bread that was high protein and fiber based. and my 2 indulges corn chips, and fat free pretzels. I decided 3 bread type carb per day only.
I stopped eating ALL cookies, cakes, brownies, sweets of any kinds, any breads other the approved choices. I filled out my plate with protein and fruits and veggies.
I did not weight and measure my food, I ate until I was full. and snacked often. I did not feel deprived at all.. I loss 67 lbs and felt good. I added exercise after losing 40 pounds
I kept it off 2 years. then stress hit my life, I slowly starting adding those food back into my life( my old coping techniques, it made me feel good in moment, )
at first it was ok, then it began to slip out of control. just like a boozer at the bar.
I have now gain it back and am back on the wagon.
So when someone ask if not eating certain types of food will help with weight loss. Yes, because when food is addition. Like any addict you can not do just a little of your feel good thing. IT will pull you back in. some of us have trigger foods/ or food groups
I know this is a familiar story .. to many.
Don't listen to all the meanies. In my opinion you're right and wrong. You sound addicted, not to the food, but the feeling it gives you. You said "old
Coping habits" that's exactly what it is. I recommend if you end up see a terapist (nothing wrong in that!) don't go for the food, instead figure out what it is you're trying to cope with, once you have that knowledge than kick it's butt!!
Really? Meanies? Is this what it comes down to? Most of the people in this thread have said what you're saying right now but they're meanies because what?0 -
I should also add, That I do believe process sugars are addictive to the body. The more you eat it the more you crave it. I understand there are sugars in fruit and veggies, but these are combine with fiber and such, metabolize differently, more slowly. then say a donut. I did make a few food selection base things that were foods I like but really never over indulged. like pretzels or corn chips . In addition I added more beans to my diet as well.
So in your opinion does everyone get addicted?
Does the glucose in sugar metabolize different than the glucose than it does in a donut?
sugar is pure glucose, donut are made with process sugar as are most sweets etc. I believed the body will readily
and very quickly metabolize this type of sugar.
However, Fresh fruit and veggies offers so much more than the natural sugar (fructose) it contains – including water, vitamins, minerals, fiber and phytonutrients (those naturally-occurring plant compounds that have wide ranging beneficial effects on the body). generally the level sugar is overwhelming lower then processed sugar products, low fiber carbs. I believe the body does process this differently, more slowly.0 -
I would like to state again for those who have recommended that I try therapy. I have been to counseling, I am also follow by my Doctor regular( 2 to 3 months)
For those who feel that I am blaming food for my overeating, I am responsible for what choices I make. I would not have posted if I was not owning my eat problems. Whether you believe in food addiction or not, the path to weight loss is not smooth or easy. Based on my personal experience and interaction with my doctors this is what I come to believe is my challenge to overcome. Each person takes a personal journey to success, some people you interact with along the way are helpful, other are just noise. The trick is figure out which is which.
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herrspoons wrote: »Smiley_Emi123 wrote: »I am not new to weight loss. I have a life long history of losing and gaining weight. I know the facts and the rules and in the end it is about balance, moderation and exercise. The most recent realization I have come to accept is that I am addict. YES. I am addicted to Food. In particular sugar,(and all the things sweeten by it) and bread type carbs.
about 3 1/2 years ago, I was considering a surgical intervention for weight loss, but my insurance did not cover intervention for obesity. I had gone to preliminary meeting, and heard about what was expect of someone who had the surgery, how and what they were expected to eat.
I met with my doctor and had serious discussion, about my Weight. she made a simple statement" sugar you just can not have it" that when a light really lit up.
the diet post surgery was eat every 2hours, protein first, veggies and fruits.. no sugar sweets etc..
I chose to eat no white potato, no rice/ pasta. sweet potato was ok
to only eat bread that was high protein and fiber based. and my 2 indulges corn chips, and fat free pretzels. I decided 3 bread type carb per day only.
I stopped eating ALL cookies, cakes, brownies, sweets of any kinds, any breads other the approved choices. I filled out my plate with protein and fruits and veggies.
I did not weight and measure my food, I ate until I was full. and snacked often. I did not feel deprived at all.. I loss 67 lbs and felt good. I added exercise after losing 40 pounds
I kept it off 2 years. then stress hit my life, I slowly starting adding those food back into my life( my old coping techniques, it made me feel good in moment, )
at first it was ok, then it began to slip out of control. just like a boozer at the bar.
I have now gain it back and am back on the wagon.
So when someone ask if not eating certain types of food will help with weight loss. Yes, because when food is addition. Like any addict you can not do just a little of your feel good thing. IT will pull you back in. some of us have trigger foods/ or food groups
I know this is a familiar story .. to many.
Don't listen to all the meanies. In my opinion you're right and wrong. You sound addicted, not to the food, but the feeling it gives you. You said "old
Coping habits" that's exactly what it is. I recommend if you end up see a terapist (nothing wrong in that!) don't go for the food, instead figure out what it is you're trying to cope with, once you have that knowledge than kick it's butt!!
Good job on being an enabler.
You really have no idea how much damage your well intentioned reinforcement causes, do you?
^This. She's still of the belief, in spite of her saying that SHE is to blame, that the food is the problem.
There's a lot of anti-sugar bullcrap out there with dodgy pseudo-scientific reasoning for people to cling to in their hope of finding a way out of the tangle of their issues with food.
I really want to b*tchslap every one of the people propagating that nonsense, because it's so very counterproductive to really helping people.
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I should also add, That I do believe process sugars are addictive to the body. The more you eat it the more you crave it. I understand there are sugars in fruit and veggies, but these are combine with fiber and such, metabolize differently, more slowly. then say a donut. I did make a few food selection base things that were foods I like but really never over indulged. like pretzels or corn chips . In addition I added more beans to my diet as well.
So in your opinion does everyone get addicted?
Does the glucose in sugar metabolize different than the glucose than it does in a donut?
sugar is pure glucose, donut are made with process sugar as are most sweets etc. I believed the body will readily
and very quickly metabolize this type of sugar.
However, Fresh fruit and veggies offers so much more than the natural sugar (fructose) it contains – including water, vitamins, minerals, fiber and phytonutrients (those naturally-occurring plant compounds that have wide ranging beneficial effects on the body). generally the level sugar is overwhelming lower then processed sugar products, low fiber carbs. I believe the body does process this differently, more slowly.
Sugar = saccharides...0 -
I believe you when you tell me you have/had underlying emotional issues you had to deal with. Why don't you believe me when I tell you I didn't?mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »
So what non-therapy route do you suggest for stopping smoking that can be used for stopping eating?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »If you really believe you're addicted to food, you should be seeing a therapist.
People don't necessarily need therapy to break an addiction. Many people quit smoking without therapy.
The difference is you need food to live. Eating is not something you just quit. Of course, you *can* use the same strategies to not eat food as you can with not smoking/drinking/other drug use, but eventually death happens because humans kinda need to eat to survive.
I didn't suggest using the same strategy.
You don't stop eating altogether, you stop eating your trigger foods or eat them in such small amounts they don't cause a problem. And that produces the same exact feelings, or at least it did for me, I experienced trying to quit smoking.
For years before I quit smoking just the thought of quitting would make me smoke more and if I tried to cut back? I'd smoke even more... I worked my way up to a 2 pack a day habit doing that. But there comes a point when enough is enough, you resolve to stop and you do -- no matter how panicky or sick you feel you suck it up, don't give in and know it gets easier. And a few years later you wonder that you ever had a problem.
I've never been a drug addict but there are people who say their issues with food were comparable:I’m a recovering alcoholic, smoker and drug addict with a history of many rehabs, jail more often than I can count and several trips to the emergency room due to overdose.
After I had been sober for several years, I started to develop an addiction to unhealthy foods.
Full-blown addiction. Nothing more, nothing less.
The reason I’m telling you this is to demonstrate that I know how addiction works.
I’m here to tell you that food addiction is the same as addiction to drugs… exactly the same. --Food Addiction – A Serious Problem With a Simple Solution
The authority nutrition quack's link to the scientific proof is hilarious and many don't deal with "food addiction" or even humans
I wasn't posting science I was sharing my experience and the experience of a drug addict for the countless people using this site who feel like they have a problem and are looking for a solution -- whether there's "proof" that problem exists or not is irrelevant.
That's not a solution, it's perpetuating faulty thinking and enabling the continuing of the real problem without ever getting to the root of it.
You can go to therapy, get in touch with your feelings, your higher power, your inner child, dig deep for the "real problem" or any of the other woo... and if that works for you? More power to you and thank you for sharing your experience; I'm sure it will resonate for someone and be exactly what they need to hear to be successful.
But while you do that I'll be over here eating in a way that resolves the issue and getting the same results without the therapy.
Actually, I didn't go to therapy at all. I just learned through experience and was willing to admit over and over again that I was wrong.
The biggest steps for me in my life, not just when it comes to weight, but for everything (actually, for me, losing weight is the last piece of a really complicated puzzle) were taking responsibility for my own actions and realizing that I didn't need to feel afraid of negative emotions. A large part of my weight problems were due to issues arising from those two factors.
I grew into those realizations all on my own.
No woo, no higher power, nothing.
In other words, I finally grew up. Now, I say that... but my issue with food was mostly emotional. However, even after realizing what those emotional issues were, I was still left with bad habits that I needed to break. I had no sense of portion size, for example.
I tend to think, for the most part, that the crowd who feels addicted to food does have an emotional aspect to their eating problem.
So, yes, I will share my experience, because I think blaming the food is still masking the underlying emotional issue.
IF it's just a matter of really, really liking ... say... sweets? Meh, you want to never eat them again? Have at it. But that wasn't the thrust of the link you provided. So I'll stick with the emotional aspect for the sake of this conversation.
Is it really so far outside the realms of possibility that eating one way left me hungry and always wanting more and yet eating another way I have a normal appetite? If that uncontrolled eating can be shut off like a light switch why would you think that's anything other than physiological?
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