My 600 Pound Life?
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Actually, a better analogy might be that someone met her husband on a Christian website, and they were both regular boring Baptists, and then the wife decided that Christianity is more destructive than helpful or is a lie and not true and she always kind of knew that but never wanted to come to terms with her doubts, and so becomes an atheist.
Then, surprise surprise to no one, her husband is still a Christian and still wants a wife that is a Christian. Perhaps even going to so far as to wave a crucifix in his atheist wife's face. While wrong, not surprising.
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deathninja82 wrote: »
Not seen the show, but I'm guessing she neglected to mention she was actively gaining herself for a while beforehand? IIRC she was comfortable around 350-400, but then I presume he took over. And there it's toxic because with the increased weight is increased dependency, where it's practically a prisoner relationship. While sometimes that goes down well with both parties, when it's non-consensual it's totally unacceptable, as in this case.
Wow, no, I definitely don't remember hearing this on the show, unless I missed it. Where did you hear this?
I used to see her around on some of the message boards years ago, at least that was her stance back then. Then again it was also a common angle for a lot of the models and aspiring models (the higher you go, the more of a niche for your site).
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shortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
That is awesome! Go, you!
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levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.
I don't see simply not being very supportive of her weight loss, or losing attraction to her, as abuse - I see the nasty things he said to both her and her daughter (so what did the daughter do to "deserve" it?? Was she too fat? Not fat enough...? What?), as well as actions such as pushing a burger in her face driving home from her WLS, then commanding that she hold his burger for him and then laughing at her, as abuse. The woman was, what, two days, three days max post-op? And ALL the jeering, making fun and literally laughing at her and in her face. Yes, I see that as abusive. That's WAY farther than just not being overly supportive. Not everyone is supportive of our weight loss efforts, that's just a given. But there's a difference between not being a rah-rah cheerleader, and basically telling a person she's repellant, she is definitely going to fail, and laughing outright at her when she takes walks and so on.
As for simply preferring overweight women: I don't know that anyone here has said that having a specific sexual preference is abuse. If he wasn't attracted to her any more after she lost weight, then he wasn't, and probably, that would be something he couldn't help. But it was nowhere near just that.
My husband is extremely obese and I am not sexually attracted to him right now. I don't tell him that he's repellant to me right now or jeer at and laugh at him or yank food from under his face (the parallel for Gareth shoving food under Z's face). If I did, I would fully expect him to leave me. I'd deserve it. He is still a human being and doesn't automatically become less of a human being because *I* have a specific preference.
Nor would he deserve my abuse because he was much thinner when I met him so he must have "known what he was in for" and that if he veered from that body type, I would automatically turn around and act worse toward him than I'd ever act toward an animal - shoving food in its face that it couldn't physically eat and then laughing at it, abusing its offspring and so on.
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Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
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shortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
Wow - fantastic!
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Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
Even when taken in context along with the whole "she is to blame" for accepting herself bit...?
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levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.
I don't see simply not being very supportive of her weight loss, or losing attraction to her, as abuse - I see the nasty things he said to both her and her daughter (so what did the daughter do to "deserve" it?? Was she too fat? Not fat enough...? What?), as well as actions such as pushing a burger in her face driving home from her WLS, then commanding that she hold his burger for him and then laughing at her, as abuse. The woman was, what, two days, three days max post-op? And ALL the jeering, making fun and literally laughing at her and in her face. Yes, I see that as abusive. That's WAY farther than just not being overly supportive. Not everyone is supportive of our weight loss efforts, that's just a given. But there's a difference between not being a rah-rah cheerleader, and basically telling a person she's repellant, she is definitely going to fail, and laughing outright at her when she takes walks and so on.
As for simply preferring overweight women: I don't know that anyone here has said that having a specific sexual preference is abuse. If he wasn't attracted to her any more after she lost weight, then he wasn't, and probably, that would be something he couldn't help. But it was nowhere near just that.
My husband is extremely obese and I am not sexually attracted to him right now. I don't tell him that he's repellant to me right now or jeer at and laugh at him or yank food from under his face (the parallel for Gareth shoving food under Z's face). If I did, I would fully expect him to leave me. I'd deserve it. He is still a human being and doesn't automatically become less of a human being because *I* have a specific preference.
Nor would he deserve my abuse because he was much thinner when I met him so he must have "known what he was in for" and that if he veered from that body type, I would automatically turn around and act worse toward him than I'd ever act toward an animal - shoving food in its face that it couldn't physically eat and then laughing at it, abusing its offspring and so on.
If you read my post, i said i didn't recall what happened in the episode, all I remember is him being a jerk and saying he married a fat woman because he likes fat women and didn't expect her to eventually decide to lose weight. I never said she deserved abuse, I was not sure what people were talking about when they mentioned that she was abused so I mentioned a few reasons that get thrown around the boards. YES I have seen people say that their partner mentioning that they gained weight is abusive. It's not.
This is obviously an emotional topic for you because of your husband and your analogies don't make sense. I am willing to bet you didn't start dating him specifically because he was thin. Z's husband started dating her specifically because she was fat and wanted her to remain fat.
You don't have to be rude and dehumanize your husband to tell him you think he needs to lose weight.
Where did I say I condoned treating obese people like they aren't humans?0 -
deathninja82 wrote: »deathninja82 wrote: »
Not seen the show, but I'm guessing she neglected to mention she was actively gaining herself for a while beforehand? IIRC she was comfortable around 350-400, but then I presume he took over. And there it's toxic because with the increased weight is increased dependency, where it's practically a prisoner relationship. While sometimes that goes down well with both parties, when it's non-consensual it's totally unacceptable, as in this case.
Wow, no, I definitely don't remember hearing this on the show, unless I missed it. Where did you hear this?
I used to see her around on some of the message boards years ago, at least that was her stance back then. Then again it was also a common angle for a lot of the models and aspiring models (the higher you go, the more of a niche for your site).
Hmmm...well, look, I don't know you, so I'm not just going to completely write off what you say, but honestly, a vague recollection without any backup and no quotes from the person herself doesn't really qualify as firm evidence, for me. At least it isn't enough of a jumping-off point for me to say with confidence that she was deliberately attracting feeders.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
Even when taken in context along with the whole "she is to blame" for accepting herself bit...?
You say she was accepting herself. I say she was denying that her weight was a problem and surrounded herself with people (like her husband) who did likewise.
Kind of like a Christian that denies their doubts and surrounds themselves in a Christian echo-chamber to drown out the doubt.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Actually, a better analogy might be that someone met her husband on a Christian website, and they were both regular boring Baptists, and then the wife decided that Christianity is more destructive than helpful or is a lie and not true and she always kind of knew that but never wanted to come to terms with her doubts, and so becomes an atheist.
Then, surprise surprise to no one, her husband is still a Christian and still wants a wife that is a Christian. Perhaps even going to so far as to wave a crucifix in his atheist wife's face. While wrong, not surprising.
Crucifixes are for Catholics, like myself. Baptists prefer Crosses, without the bodily reminder.
Oh yeah, lol. I'm Catholic too, I forgot about Baptists not being keen on the Crucifix.
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thank you for your kind words!!0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
Even when taken in context along with the whole "she is to blame" for accepting herself bit...?
You say she was accepting herself. I say she was denying that her weight was a problem and surrounded herself with people (like her husband) who did likewise.
Kind of like a Christian that denies their doubts and surrounds themselves in a Christian echo-chamber to drown out the doubt.
But her weight wasn't a problem for her at 300 pounds. I mean, aside from there being problems associated with that weight, she *was* happy and active. It seemed to me that he found her, seduced her, and then started feeding her more and more and more in a deliberate effort to make her so fat she couldn't do anything for herself. And when she objected, he turned completely toxic. Which is not to paint her as a helpless victim, I just don't see that they met when she was 700 pounds and helpless and then she decided to change out of the blue. She changed for him and then realized it was awful.0 -
levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.
I've bolded the sentence where you imply his treatment of her was in some way excusable. It doesn't matter that he wanted a "fat wife" and that she changed after marriage. There is no reason to treat your partner with contempt, animosity, and other manipulative behaviors.
Having a certain sexual preference wasn't the abusive part; it was his treatment of her that was wrong.
I also don't believe that you are obligated to stay with a partner you find physically unattractive but there are plenty of ways to respectfully bow out of a relationship and treat your (soon-to-be-ex) partner with consideration.
I do agree with your differentiation of FA, fat fetishism, and feeders.0 -
Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
Even when taken in context along with the whole "she is to blame" for accepting herself bit...?
You say she was accepting herself. I say she was denying that her weight was a problem and surrounded herself with people (like her husband) who did likewise.
Kind of like a Christian that denies their doubts and surrounds themselves in a Christian echo-chamber to drown out the doubt.
But her weight wasn't a problem for her at 300 pounds. I mean, aside from there being problems associated with that weight, she *was* happy and active. It seemed to me that he found her, seduced her, and then started feeding her more and more and more in a deliberate effort to make her so fat she couldn't do anything for herself. And when she objected, he turned completely toxic. Which is not to paint her as a helpless victim, I just don't see that they met when she was 700 pounds and helpless and then she decided to change out of the blue. She changed for him and then realized it was awful.
At 300 lbs it wasn't a problem largely too because she was young, like in her 20's I believe. I think she was only in her early-mid thirties in her episode at 600 lbs and was still mobile and even driving. She was losing her mobility though and that prospect seem to scare her.
I don't recall any of what you are saying about her husband being predatory as either explicit or implicit in the narrative of her story. She drove herself around, she cooked meals, she picked up her own boxes of donuts to eat (to feed her self-diagnosed "sugar addiction"...)
He may have been into feederism, I don't know. He may have wanted her immobile, I don't know. What we know is he wanted her fat and he didn't want her to lose weight. She wasn't a prisoner, she could still get around, so if he had designs on getting her to a helpless wholly dependent, immobile state, then she turned things around in the nick of time, huh?
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I see the feeders as enablers and controllers. He could control her when she was fat. Look at the amount of control they have. The fat person, in Zzaylan ' s case never left the house hardly. Definitely did not have a job, no say in financial decisions.
The enabler really must have issues. The entire dynamic is dysfunctional.0 -
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Lourdesong wrote: »Actually, a better analogy might be that someone met her husband on a Christian website, and they were both regular boring Baptists, and then the wife decided that Christianity is more destructive than helpful or is a lie and not true and she always kind of knew that but never wanted to come to terms with her doubts, and so becomes an atheist.
Then, surprise surprise to no one, her husband is still a Christian and still wants a wife that is a Christian. Perhaps even going to so far as to wave a crucifix in his atheist wife's face. While wrong, not surprising.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
When an obese individual gets into any kind of "fat acceptance" or "fat fetishist" or "BBW/SSBBW" or whatever gathering or website or whatnot, and they get into it with the intention of starting a relationship or finding a mate, they do so with the knowledge that the other person will not just love them despite their size, they will, at least in part, love them because of their size. If you go onto a Christian website to find a mate, it is because your preference for a Christian mate is extremely strong, perhaps to the point of exclusivity, such that you would not accept a non-Christian mate. You expect your mate to be a Christian, and you probably expect your mate to stay a Christian.
Now, if that mate decided they no longer wanted to be a Christian, or explore other options, or whatever, a mature and loving person would support them in those efforts to the degree they could, and if/when they felt that they could no longer do so or that they've reached a point where they could not accept the changes in the other person, they would end the relationship. I am in no way excusing Zsalynn's husband's behavior, nor am I even remotely suggesting that she "deserved" any of it. However, it isn't terribly surprising that he would react negatively to the change, even if it was ultimately saving her life. He should have reacted better, certainly, that's no question. But, the fact that he disagreed with her decision to lose weight isn't shocking at all, given their history.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »I do agree with your differentiation of FA, fat fetishism, and feeders.
I'll admit I'm a bit fuzzy on the distinctions but I hung out with a woman in the 90s who was big into the Fat Acceptance movement (FA).
She was morbidly obese herself (I was just a bit overweight at the time.) And It was always her assertion that fat fetishists would use the morbidly obese for sex and then marry women of normal weight.
Or they would use the morbidly obese for sex while being married to women of normal size.
She claimed the fat fetishists would always lead the morbidly obese to believe the relationship was love based, not sex based, and generally dupe them. The morbidly obese would either fall for it, or surrender to the arrangement because they preferred to have some regular sex and male companionship rather than none at all.
I don't know about the veracity of her claims about all this, but she was pretty insistent about it.
There are a lot of fetishists who marry inside that fetish. (Think BDSM and so on.) I don't think that's different for fat fetishists although many of them may be closeted because there's a social stigma associated with it and since it's an externalized fetish it's difficult to hide. People in BDSM relationships aren't necessarily advertising it when they go out to dinner, but an average-sized man with a very heavy woman may receive a lot of looks. A man who's active in FA is already more open about his preferences so probably wouldn't feel the need to hide it.
I expect your friend was making the FA/FF distinction because it was an easy way to draw the line between men who were public about their preferences and those who weren't.
I don't know a lot about FA so I am making assumptions based on my understanding of the other elements here. I feel there are probably men active in FA who are technically fat fetishists (they truly fetishize heavy women) but open about it while also men who are just generally attracted to heavier women. The latter is similar to my strong preference for men with dark hair. I'm not fetishizing them and I've had totally satisfying relationships with men with lighter (or no!) hair, but dark haired men always catch my eye.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »I don't know a lot about FA so I am making assumptions based on my understanding of the other elements here. I feel there are probably men active in FA who are technically fat fetishists (they truly fetishize heavy women) but open about it while also men who are just generally attracted to heavier women. The latter is similar to my strong preference for men with dark hair. I'm not fetishizing them and I've had totally satisfying relationships with men with lighter (or no!) hair, but dark haired men always catch my eye.
You'll pretty much nailed it, actually.0 -
I think we're missing a HUGE piece of the puzzle in comparing SSBBW who lose weight to Christians who leave the religion. EXCESSIVE WEIGHT IS PHYSICAL. It's destructive and is life threatening for all those on this show. So if you are looking at your spouse DIE and prefer they continue down that path, you're a sick person that really should not have the responsibility of being someone's life partner.0
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Im shocked. But not really because plentyyyyy of men leave their wives for gaining weight, because they are not able to get past the physical. So certainly there'd be men who'd leave huge women for losing.
It's good. Lol. Nobody needs someone like that in their lives0 -
GO GIRL!! That's amazingshortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
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toronto416 wrote:I know it's very risky to do these procedures (here in Canada it's very hard to get bariatric surgery in the first place as it's often not seen as a necessity; many people here who are in that condition will go to hospitals in Duluth, Minnesota where they specialize in that) but I'm surprised there hasn't been a couple other doctors who have watched Dr. Now and decided to learn from him. These poor people shouldn't have to drive 20 hours to Houston to get this done.
Plenty of bariatric surgeons in the US, if that's what you mean. I see ads for some sort of $400 surgery/sleeve, NO I have NO clue what that could entail! :laugh: Dr. Now happens to also be doing this on a TV show, so I imagine the participants get some perks as well. Someone mentioned earlier how TLC seems like they must take every last shred of dignity from the patient before they pay for the surgery but I'm not sure if it really is TLC footing the entire bill. I'm guessing not all 600+ lb people have the necessary insurance to cover the procedure and follow up, so even if they wanted to get the surgery or weren't terrified to do it, they might not be able to? Lot of guesses here. Now I'm curious. Either way I just doubt it's due to a lack of surgeonssnowflakesav wrote: »I am surprised the Dr at the clinic in Houston does the surgery on any of these patients. I have only seen one or two of them become succesful at living a healthier lifestyle. Some of them gain mobility through the procedure but not to the point where they aren't still morbidly obese and disabled. I think there is a lot better paths to help people with addiction that is rooted in PTSD. To me they behave like manipulative drug addicts on the program and I think the therapies offered to drug addicts are more succesful.
Is there any kind of follow up info on how they perform in the months or years following that we could look at? I mean the show covers maybe one year, and I think they way a lot of them have performed is adequate? They really shouldn't be done by any means - it should be an ongoing effort...0 -
GO GIRL!! That's amazingshortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
^^^ YES. GO girl get it get it. Thats AMAZING 0 -
Is there any kind of follow up info on how they perform in the months or years following that we could look at? I mean the show covers maybe one year, and I think they way a lot of them have performed is adequate? They really shouldn't be done by any means - it should be an ongoing effort...
The first season followed them around for seven years. It would be nice if they did a check in on them and go a little deeper with their stories but I'm guessing the time crunch has to do with making sure they get enough shows done and aired in a timely manner. TLC has some vague Q&A with some of the participants.0 -
I was in the process of eating bread (toast) while the "bread slowing weight loss post" then I was about to eat a cheese danish and after the first 10 mins I put that 250 4oz piece of pastry that did not fit my calories and guzzled down some water.
but I just cant watch stuff like that idk if its mean but it grosses me out 0
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