If the food industry is the "apparent" issue for obesity and health issues....
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Lol, lots of times that "Kosher" item is a pickle.asflatasapancake wrote: »Ok. Devil's advocate. If the food is so bad, perhaps they are not eating as much because it sucks. Are they allowed to eat as much as they want or is there a limit? And perhaps they are moving around enough to offset their calorie intake. I've never been to prison, but do they make license plates and do manual labor type things there? I wonder what the percentage is of inmates that use a weight room or exercise room? I don't know.
Portion controlled food, not all you can eat (although if you have the reputation I suppose you could technically eat others food).
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Federal prisons are known to have better food quality verse county jails and state prisons. Believe me there's nothing kosher about most of the things served at the local prisons here .0 -
_incogNEATo_ wrote: »
Why is a person living in poverty eating soda, chips, and fast food?!
Because of limited to nonexistent opportunities for buy fresh food. Google "food desert."
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Then why aren't incarcerated people having the same issues?
The prison system serves the lowest quality food. Processed, low grade, fatty, sodium filled, and HFCS injected. ALL the time. And yet with an average 5-15 year incarceration for most inmates, obesity statistics aren't that of the general population.
Food of course is restricted to 3 meals a day. It's not a buffet, so it's portioned out. They aren't exercising all the time to burn off the calories. They don't have daily health care. And there's lots of smoking to boot. In fact, they aren't likely meeting nutritional values essentially, so it's expected that they have chronic health issues. So why aren't these inmates dying off faster with all these issues? A prisoner is much more likely to die of violence in prison, rather than from the "bad" food they are subjected to, yet health officials and some "natural" advocates are claiming that the food industry is the culprit to the obesity epidemic.
Point is that if "bad" food is REALLY the issue for being overweight and obesity and really killing us off, then the same results should be reflected in the prison population. And it's not.
Obesity and weight issues are a DIRECT issue of intake/output. Get that under control and you'll more than likely reduce you risk of health issues.
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The prison system is required to provide nutritionally balanced meals. The food in prison is usually better than that in schools and nursing homes. It's sad but very true.
Inmates do have daily health care. They do exercise as well.
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Also the mandated foods are dictated by lobbyists both for the inmates themselves and from AG groups. Whole wheat bread, whole milk and fresh fruits and veggies are mandated by state and federal law. In my state it is CA WI code Title 15.0
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You must have missed the menu. There is juice on the menu. Also you're not taking into consideration what they might buy from commissary (which will be usually made up of junk food and not fruits or water). I posted pictures of inmates. Find an obese one for me. And I also posted info on health in the prison system.MyLittlPwn13 wrote: »Consider what a person living in poverty (or most other Americans, for that matter) is likely to be eating outside of prison--Soda, chips, fast food. So not only is the quantity stabilizing (food insecurity messes with your metabolism), but the quality is going way up. There's fresh fruit at every meal. There are vegetables (however broadly defined) at least twice every day. There's water. There's no soda or fruit juice in sight. It's still not even close to ideal, but it's likely to be a huge improvement in quality as well as quantity.
In addition to this, you haven't even addressed whether inmates are actually healthy or even slim according to anything but your wild guesses. This reductionist approach is not holding water at all.
It holds water just fine if you would've have looked at the whole thread instead of my rebuttal to you.
EDIT: There's "fruit" on the menu. My bad.
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That was the point of the thread. It's NOT about the quality of the food, it's about the AMOUNT of food being taken in._whatsherface wrote: »
Lol, lots of times that "Kosher" item is a pickle.asflatasapancake wrote: »Ok. Devil's advocate. If the food is so bad, perhaps they are not eating as much because it sucks. Are they allowed to eat as much as they want or is there a limit? And perhaps they are moving around enough to offset their calorie intake. I've never been to prison, but do they make license plates and do manual labor type things there? I wonder what the percentage is of inmates that use a weight room or exercise room? I don't know.
Portion controlled food, not all you can eat (although if you have the reputation I suppose you could technically eat others food).
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That doesn't seem like a lot of food to me. The calorie intake does not seem great either. So most of these inmates are probably eating AT or UNDER their calorie allowance to maintain or gain weight. Also, inmates have a LOT of extra time. If they're not out in the yard exercising, they're in their cells exercising. They have all the time in the world so exercise. Just my thoughts.
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I have never seen a fat meth or opiates addict that has been doing the drug for more than a few months. Either they don't want to eat so they can take apart the microwave to find the magic, or they sleep through 15 meals at a time.
Hint...these are the guys in prison...shhhhhhh0 -
Lots of obese inmates in the system here. In a lot of cases long term inmates are pretty thin upon intake but gain considerable weight while they are in. Some workout and muscle up and some just get round. The most popular commissary item here is peanut butter packets.0
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The most popular things here are peanuts, shelf stable chicken and tuna, and powdered milk. Protein.0
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There's a difference of being able to buy food and having to do something to earn food. Out here you go to a store. Pick something and pay for it. In prison, it might require something not worth it. There's a difference when you're speaking of "access". If I had to go kick someone's head in to get a box of cookies, I defer to not eating them because I know the outcome would be probably getting shanked when I'm not looking.HumboldtFred wrote: »Niner,
Do you even read bro?
Food is everywhere in prison. It is currency, it is available to everyone all the time. The motivating factor for not overeating inside prison walls is exactly the same as outside prison walls. .........survival. The difference to those of you outside the walls is your survival motivator isn't a 245lb 6 foot 2 psychopath with face tattoos and missing fingers. The urgency for survival is much more apparent inside prison.
Dying from a heart attack doesn't have the same motivational power as dying from an assault or we would have horror movies filmed at Burger King.
The typical day of a CDCR inmate in the first person.
7 am Wake up, check to see if I am dead.
7:30 am eat breakfast consisting of eggs, oatmeal, pancakes, bacon or ham or spam etc... whole milk ...don't get killed.
8:00 mandatory in cell workouts....this is so my "friends" don't kill me...
8:30 Take "friend" to shower day so an enemy doesn't kill me.
9:30 Go to work or a cell where I steal anything and everything I can for my "friends" so they don't kill me.
12:00 eat a lunch full of fats, sugars, and refines/processed foods, beans, spam, bologna, cheese and full fat milk
1-4:00 Work, steal, extort and do drugs while both "friends and enemies" decide if they should kill me
4:00 to 5:00 run laps or play basketball while not looking out for your "friends" who might want to kill you.
5:00 eat dinner while trying not to sit anywhere near an enemy which would make my "friends" kill me even if my enemy didn't want to
6:00 to 11:00 get your hustle on, this means more mandatory working out, "putting in work" which is contributing to the criminal enterprises of your "friends" (not optional) Selling and buying extra food items at the prison store, and trying to find out who the hell my "friends" are so I can decide who to trust and who to trust less.
Saying people don't overeat in prison because there is no food, is like saying they don't do drugs because drugs are illegal and that would be bad. People in prison are in better shape, because either they can be in better shape or they can be victimized. choices.
That's what I mean by "access".
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Charity is customary in prison culture. For instance all inmates of a certain race will give food to inmates of that race when those inmates are indigent. This is how they pay it forward and maintain loyalty of the troops when at war with another group. There are no loners in prison. while inmates do get housed alone, they still receive monetary and moral support from alliances through outside sources. My point is that prison inmates are issued a minimum of 2500-3500 calories daily and they have access to more food as desired. I rarely see anyone losing weight in prison, yet nearly everyone gains weight.0
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emily_stew wrote: »
"Jail's not so bad. You can make sangria in the terlet."
-Scruffy, the Janitor, from Futurama
Lil sugar, some oranges, cheerios, bread, Ketchup, maybe some corn, tie it up in a garbage bag and let it sit for three days and BOOM Bartles and James my brothers.0 -
Sorry, but I'm going to disagree. While law states that prisoners can't be denied food, the LOWEST standards of nutrition only have to be met. And that's where they put it. There are budgets to be met and QUALITY of food will be the first to suffer. Cheaper usually means less quality.Then why aren't incarcerated people having the same issues?
The prison system serves the lowest quality food. Processed, low grade, fatty, sodium filled, and HFCS injected. ALL the time. And yet with an average 5-15 year incarceration for most inmates, obesity statistics aren't that of the general population.
Food of course is restricted to 3 meals a day. It's not a buffet, so it's portioned out. They aren't exercising all the time to burn off the calories. They don't have daily health care. And there's lots of smoking to boot. In fact, they aren't likely meeting nutritional values essentially, so it's expected that they have chronic health issues. So why aren't these inmates dying off faster with all these issues? A prisoner is much more likely to die of violence in prison, rather than from the "bad" food they are subjected to, yet health officials and some "natural" advocates are claiming that the food industry is the culprit to the obesity epidemic.
Point is that if "bad" food is REALLY the issue for being overweight and obesity and really killing us off, then the same results should be reflected in the prison population. And it's not.
Obesity and weight issues are a DIRECT issue of intake/output. Get that under control and you'll more than likely reduce you risk of health issues.
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The prison system is required to provide nutritionally balanced meals. The food in prison is usually better than that in schools and nursing homes. It's sad but very true.
Inmates do have daily health care. They do exercise as well.
Inmates have ACCESS to health care when needed. They just can't make an appointment like we can an see a doctor unless it's related to health issue. I doubt they can say "hey, it's time for my yearly physical" and expect to be booked for an appointment.
Exercise is free. So yes they exercise.
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This whole thread was started on the basis that if the Food Industry plays a big part in obesity then why aren't the inmates fat? It was based on opinion and not actual fact of how prison meal systems are run.
However, just because bad food is out there doesn't mean we have to eat it. It's my personal belief that ADDED sugar in almost every food is the real problem. As a people, we've developed a sever sweet tooth and the food industry caters to that because that is what sells.
I agree with the OP on intake/output. But foods listed as healthy are, most of the time, not. This throws people off and frustrates them.
And to address your above comment, have you ever worked in a corrections facility? You clearly have no idea what foods are bought, prepared, and served. Inmates do have access to health care. They can make an appt for anything they want. It does NOT have to be related to a traceable illness or injury. By law there is a doctor available to the inmates 24/7. Inmates get a doctors appointment 100x easier than civilians. The doctor can't say he doesn't have an appt till next month. The prison would get sued. Health care is also free when you are incarcerated.
Also, the only time the lowest standards are met may be with food loaf. Which is what inmates get in place of meals if they do something like repeatedly throw their tray of food all over the place.
This is the last I'll say on the issue. I think you were both right and wrong in your initial post. But arguing about it won't change your mind or mine now will it?0 -
I think the bottom line on everything, not just food, is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Yes, there are factors that contribute to obesity. Contribute. It does suck that the foods most of us were raised on were highly processed crap that our parents didn't understand was super bad for us. However, this is a website for adults. Once you hit a certain point in life, you decide what and how much you are shoving in your oreo hole.
I for one wouldn't want the government to step in to regulate the food industry. Yes, I do want them to regulate labeling. This way I can personally decide if I want to eat something that honestly lists whats in it. I don't want someone telling me that a restaurant can't serve a certain size soda.0 -
You gotta admit that CA is much more lenient towards inmates than other states when it comes to actual rights. I don't doubt that there will be systems that are better than others when it comes to food.HumboldtFred wrote: »Also the mandated foods are dictated by lobbyists both for the inmates themselves and from AG groups. Whole wheat bread, whole milk and fresh fruits and veggies are mandated by state and federal law. In my state it is CA WI code Title 15.
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My great grandpop always blamed everything on the Dutch too.asflatasapancake wrote: »I still blame cellphones, reality tv, and the Dutch.
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35% of the population or much less? What's alot, like 20 out of 1,000? Link?Lots of obese inmates in the system here. In a lot of cases long term inmates are pretty thin upon intake but gain considerable weight while they are in. Some workout and muscle up and some just get round. The most popular commissary item here is peanut butter packets.
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Inmates have ACCESS to health care when needed. They just can't make an appointment like we can an see a doctor unless it's related to health issue. I doubt they can say "hey, it's time for my yearly physical" and expect to be booked for an appointment.
Exercise is free. So yes they exercise.
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Ummm....
Inmates have daily sick call. They see the physician within 72 hours of complaint if minor, immediately if major in my facility. We have RNs and LVNs 24/7 and FNP and an MD M-F 9-5 Their quarterly physicals and tuberculin testing are done on a schedule. That is how you keep a thousand men with drug habits and compromised immune systems from all dying.
But what do I know, I have only supervised prison inmates 12 hours a day for decades...............
My facility does a great job of caring for inmates, but the standards are ultimately set by the good ole Constitution.
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With 2 brother in laws who are currently CO's in CDCR, a mother who worked as a nurse in CDCR Vacaville for 10 years, and being an acquaintance with former chief deputy officer at San Quentin, I don't believe to be off base. I'm willing to change my mind if information is incorrect.This whole thread was started on the basis that if the Food Industry plays a big part in obesity then why aren't the inmates fat? It was based on opinion and not actual fact of how prison meal systems are run.
However, just because bad food is out there doesn't mean we have to eat it. It's my personal belief that ADDED sugar in almost every food is the real problem. As a people, we've developed a sever sweet tooth and the food industry caters to that because that is what sells.
I agree with the OP on intake/output. But foods listed as healthy are, most of the time, not. This throws people off and frustrates them.
And to address your above comment, have you ever worked in a corrections facility? You clearly have no idea what foods are bought, prepared, and served. Inmates do have access to health care. They can make an appt for anything they want. It does NOT have to be related to a traceable illness or injury. By law there is a doctor available to the inmates 24/7. Inmates get a doctors appointment 100x easier than civilians. The doctor can't say he doesn't have an appt till next month. The prison would get sued. Health care is also free when you are incarcerated.
Also, the only time the lowest standards are met may be with food loaf. Which is what inmates get in place of meals if they do something like repeatedly throw their tray of food all over the place.
This is the last I'll say on the issue. I think you were both right and wrong in your initial post. But arguing about it won't change your mind or mine now will it?
Health care access great in prison? Really?More than 800,000 incarcerated persons in the US suffer from a chronic health problem needing regular attention, such as diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, HIV, and other blood-borne illnesses. According to an American Journal of Public Health 2009 study of federal, state, and “local” jails, access to care is poor. Mental health worsens with incarceration, with the AJPH noting “the prisons’ new societal role as asylums following the mass closures of inpatient mental health facilities in the 1980s (the largest mental institutions in the United States are urban jails)."
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/02/20/pris-f20.html
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Well being that the majority of inmates are in for drug related issues, if they were "tweakers" and underweight going in (a family member of mine did go in this way), I would concur that they would gain some weight if they aren't amped up daily. Based on the amount of food PROVIDED at no cost though, the average inmate more than likely won't gain more than a few pounds unless they are pounding away at the calories from commissary or their own personal stash.HumboldtFred wrote: »Charity is customary in prison culture. For instance all inmates of a certain race will give food to inmates of that race when those inmates are indigent. This is how they pay it forward and maintain loyalty of the troops when at war with another group. There are no loners in prison. while inmates do get housed alone, they still receive monetary and moral support from alliances through outside sources. My point is that prison inmates are issued a minimum of 2500-3500 calories daily and they have access to more food as desired. I rarely see anyone losing weight in prison, yet nearly everyone gains weight.
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Being that my mom was an RN at a CDCR, I got first hand how she handled patients. Now granted where she worked there were more mentally ill inmates, but she basically spent maybe 10 minutes on avg with each inmate who needed it."HumboldtFred wrote:Ummm....
Inmates have daily sick call. They see the physician within 72 hours of complaint if minor, immediately if major in my facility. We have RNs and LVNs 24/7 and FNP and an MD M-F 9-5 Their quarterly physicals and tuberculin testing are done on a schedule. That is how you keep a thousand men with drug habits and compromised immune systems from all dying.
But what do I know, I have only supervised prison inmates 12 hours a day for decades...............
My facility does a great job of caring for inmates, but the standards are ultimately set by the good ole Constitution.
Yes the tests (which my mother did and was the majority of her job) were done on schedule. But even when she saw someone for an issue, treated them, and got another complaint, due to the sheer volume of work she was doing, she may not see them again for another month. Could they have been seen by another nurse? Possibly. That I don't know. But this was back in 1985-1995 when she worked there. Based on the article I posted, it's not gotten better. From the article:Early last month, California’s Democratic governor, Jerry Brown, requested the federal court allow the state to regain health care oversight of the prison system. Special Master Matthew Lopes visited two thirds of the state’s prisons and compiled a report rejecting Brown’s request, noting that “at least 32 inmates committed suicide in 2012, that prisons had lapses in care, and that patients with mental illnesses…were put in isolation units for long periods rather than given treatment.”
My mom did work for a private company at the time and not the state. Even then I doubt that 10 min average time with an inmate (when she wasn't doing mandatory testing) was enough time to say that care to inmates was more than adequate.
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Where is the article that proves your point?Then why aren't incarcerated people having the same issues?
The prison system serves the lowest quality food. Processed, low grade, fatty, sodium filled, and HFCS injected. ALL the time. And yet with an average 5-15 year incarceration for most inmates, obesity statistics aren't that of the general population.
Food of course is restricted to 3 meals a day. It's not a buffet, so it's portioned out. They aren't exercising all the time to burn off the calories. They don't have daily health care. And there's lots of smoking to boot. In fact, they aren't likely meeting nutritional values essentially, so it's expected that they have chronic health issues. So why aren't these inmates dying off faster with all these issues? A prisoner is much more likely to die of violence in prison, rather than from the "bad" food they are subjected to, yet health officials and some "natural" advocates are claiming that the food industry is the culprit to the obesity epidemic.
Point is that if "bad" food is REALLY the issue for being overweight and obesity and really killing us off, then the same results should be reflected in the prison population. And it's not.
Obesity and weight issues are a DIRECT issue of intake/output. Get that under control and you'll more than likely reduce you risk of health issues.
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_incogNEATo_ wrote: »_whatsherface wrote: »
Lol, lots of times that "Kosher" item is a pickle.asflatasapancake wrote: »Ok. Devil's advocate. If the food is so bad, perhaps they are not eating as much because it sucks. Are they allowed to eat as much as they want or is there a limit? And perhaps they are moving around enough to offset their calorie intake. I've never been to prison, but do they make license plates and do manual labor type things there? I wonder what the percentage is of inmates that use a weight room or exercise room? I don't know.
Portion controlled food, not all you can eat (although if you have the reputation I suppose you could technically eat others food).
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That doesn't seem like a lot of food to me. The calorie intake does not seem great either. So most of these inmates are probably eating AT or UNDER their calorie allowance to maintain or gain weight. Also, inmates have a LOT of extra time. If they're not out in the yard exercising, they're in their cells exercising. They have all the time in the world so exercise. Just my thoughts.
That's the WHOLE point.
I guess my point was even if they are over eating, most of them work out hours and hours and hours a day because they have nothing better to do with their time which is why you don't see a lot of obesity.
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I know that comparatively inmates in prison have more food given to them than is required to maintain weight.
I pay 800 bucks a month and my agency pays another 1200 for my medical insurance. When I go to the doc, I pay 20 bucks, when I go to the hospital ER I pay 50 bucks. I pay the first 3500 bucks of major medical out of pocket. I wait 6-12 weeks for a DR appointment since Obama-care destroyed the system.
Inmates pay three bucks and are seen within 3 days. They have it better than me.
AB 109 shifted tens of thousands of inmates back into county jails emptying the prisons and making access more local and more attentive.
Prop 47 turned tens of thousands back onto the streets as low level offenders.0 -
HumboldtFred wrote: »
I pay 800 bucks a month and my agency pays another 1200 for my medical insurance. When I go to the doc, I pay 20 bucks, when I go to the hospital ER I pay 50 bucks. I pay the first 3500 bucks of major medical out of pocket. I wait 6-12 weeks for a DR appointment since Obama-care destroyed the system.
What it sounds like is that you have a lousy doctor. When I make an appt I usually get in within a day or two. It's usually my schedule that is the problem. So no, Obama-care did not destroy the "system", since it was broken to begin with. If anything it is better now.0 -
I thought better of it0
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