Why is Belgium so Skinny?
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What I'm kinda getting out of this is Belgium et al focuses more on Calories Out than Calories In... If a lot of the population bikes everywhere this would explain why their obesity rates aren't as high as those of us who drive everywhere. This is obviously a very simplistic view....
jg can you explain what you mean by 3000g... 3000g of what? Does 3000g equal 3000 calories??
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Or frites with mayonaise or any of 20 other popular sauces, eg, curry ketchup.0
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Belgium:
People: 10,827,519
Bicycles: 5,200,000
Cyclists: ~48%
In Belgium 8% of all trips are made by bike and 48% commute daily by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 0.9 km. In Belgium, cycling commuters are being paid 20 euro cents(29 U.S. cents) per kilometer, where as those in the Netherlands can earn 15 cents and participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free. In Belgium, a popular cycling nation and home to five-time Tour de France and Giro D'Italia winner Eddie Merckx, finance ministry figures show that more than 270,000 people took part in the scheme in 2010, up from 140,000 in 2006. In 2010, that meant the Belgian tax man paid out 43 million euros ($62 mln) to those who bill for cycling to work.
Netherlands:
People: 16,652,800
Bicycles: 16,500,000
Cyclists: ~99.1%
In the Netherlands 27% of all trips and 25% of trips to work are made by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 2.5 km. Holland and bicycles go together like bread and jam. Despite the recession the cycle-happy Dutch are still spending a lot of money on their bicycles – nearly 1 billion euros’ worth a year. About 1.3 million bicycles were sold in the Netherlands in 2009, at an average price of 713 euros ($1,008) each. Amsterdam (the capital and largest city of the Netherlands) is one of the most bicycle-friendly large cities in the world. It has 400 km of bike lanes and nearly 40% of all commutes in Amsterdam are done on bike.
Of course there's where i live:
Denmark:
People: 5,560,628
Bicycles: 4,500,000
Cyclists: ~80.1%
In the Denmark 18% of all trips are made by bike.The average distance cycled per person is 1.6 km. Cycling is generally perceived as a healthier, cheaper, environmentally friendlier and often even quicker way to travel around towns than car or public transport and it is therefore municipal policy for the number of commuters by bike to go up to 40% by 2012 and 50% by 2015. In Copenhagen (the capital of Denmark) 37% of all citizens ride their bike on a daily basis. The local town hall even offers the visitors rental bikes for free.Interesting fact: the average travelling speed in Copenhagen is 16 kph for cyclists and 27 kph for cars.
The fact of the matter is they have the infrastructure, knowledge, laws, and schemes in place to make being more active and riding to work the BETTER, easier, cheaper option.
So to answer your question? They are significantly more active on a daily basis. Even if you aren't biking you are walking around more often than the average desk-job American.0 -
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Belgium:
People: 10,827,519
Bicycles: 5,200,000
Cyclists: ~48%
In Belgium 8% of all trips are made by bike and 48% commute daily by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 0.9 km. In Belgium, cycling commuters are being paid 20 euro cents(29 U.S. cents) per kilometer, where as those in the Netherlands can earn 15 cents and participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free. In Belgium, a popular cycling nation and home to five-time Tour de France and Giro D'Italia winner Eddie Merckx, finance ministry figures show that more than 270,000 people took part in the scheme in 2010, up from 140,000 in 2006. In 2010, that meant the Belgian tax man paid out 43 million euros ($62 mln) to those who bill for cycling to work.
Netherlands:
People: 16,652,800
Bicycles: 16,500,000
Cyclists: ~99.1%
In the Netherlands 27% of all trips and 25% of trips to work are made by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 2.5 km. Holland and bicycles go together like bread and jam. Despite the recession the cycle-happy Dutch are still spending a lot of money on their bicycles – nearly 1 billion euros’ worth a year. About 1.3 million bicycles were sold in the Netherlands in 2009, at an average price of 713 euros ($1,008) each. Amsterdam (the capital and largest city of the Netherlands) is one of the most bicycle-friendly large cities in the world. It has 400 km of bike lanes and nearly 40% of all commutes in Amsterdam are done on bike.
Of course there's where i live:
Denmark:
People: 5,560,628
Bicycles: 4,500,000
Cyclists: ~80.1%
In the Denmark 18% of all trips are made by bike.The average distance cycled per person is 1.6 km. Cycling is generally perceived as a healthier, cheaper, environmentally friendlier and often even quicker way to travel around towns than car or public transport and it is therefore municipal policy for the number of commuters by bike to go up to 40% by 2012 and 50% by 2015. In Copenhagen (the capital of Denmark) 37% of all citizens ride their bike on a daily basis. The local town hall even offers the visitors rental bikes for free.Interesting fact: the average travelling speed in Copenhagen is 16 kph for cyclists and 27 kph for cars.
The fact of the matter is they have the infrastructure, knowledge, laws, and schemes in place to make being more active and riding to work the BETTER, easier, cheaper option.
So to answer your question? They are significantly more active on a daily basis. Even if you aren't biking you are walking around more often than the average desk-job American.
I think part of this being possible is the way towns and cities are structured in Europe. For me (in Florida), I have a job that's fairly close to home. It's still 12 miles away. Before transferring closer to home, my job was almost 20 miles away. I don't think the numbers would be quite as high in those countries if people were cycling 40 kilometers a day to work and back. My nearest grocery store is almost a 7 kilometer round trip. It's a short trip for a bike, but it's still 3x the distance quoted as being the daily average above. Our city planners have a lot to answer for.
I actually know two people who do this. =/ Although they are very active cyclists and do races quite often.
As far as biking for groceries.... believe me when i say it sucks even when it's a short distance. It's like a crazy balancing act.
Although, the Christania or Cargo bike is popular here.
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rainbowbow wrote: »Belgium:
People: 10,827,519
Bicycles: 5,200,000
Cyclists: ~48%
In Belgium 8% of all trips are made by bike and 48% commute daily by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 0.9 km. In Belgium, cycling commuters are being paid 20 euro cents(29 U.S. cents) per kilometer, where as those in the Netherlands can earn 15 cents and participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free. In Belgium, a popular cycling nation and home to five-time Tour de France and Giro D'Italia winner Eddie Merckx, finance ministry figures show that more than 270,000 people took part in the scheme in 2010, up from 140,000 in 2006. In 2010, that meant the Belgian tax man paid out 43 million euros ($62 mln) to those who bill for cycling to work.
Netherlands:
People: 16,652,800
Bicycles: 16,500,000
Cyclists: ~99.1%
In the Netherlands 27% of all trips and 25% of trips to work are made by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 2.5 km. Holland and bicycles go together like bread and jam. Despite the recession the cycle-happy Dutch are still spending a lot of money on their bicycles – nearly 1 billion euros’ worth a year. About 1.3 million bicycles were sold in the Netherlands in 2009, at an average price of 713 euros ($1,008) each. Amsterdam (the capital and largest city of the Netherlands) is one of the most bicycle-friendly large cities in the world. It has 400 km of bike lanes and nearly 40% of all commutes in Amsterdam are done on bike.
Of course there's where i live:
Denmark:
People: 5,560,628
Bicycles: 4,500,000
Cyclists: ~80.1%
In the Denmark 18% of all trips are made by bike.The average distance cycled per person is 1.6 km. Cycling is generally perceived as a healthier, cheaper, environmentally friendlier and often even quicker way to travel around towns than car or public transport and it is therefore municipal policy for the number of commuters by bike to go up to 40% by 2012 and 50% by 2015. In Copenhagen (the capital of Denmark) 37% of all citizens ride their bike on a daily basis. The local town hall even offers the visitors rental bikes for free.Interesting fact: the average travelling speed in Copenhagen is 16 kph for cyclists and 27 kph for cars.
The fact of the matter is they have the infrastructure, knowledge, laws, and schemes in place to make being more active and riding to work the BETTER, easier, cheaper option.
So to answer your question? They are significantly more active on a daily basis. Even if you aren't biking you are walking around more often than the average desk-job American.
Well in all fairness, I live in NYC and we might as well be living in a box with how little space we get for what we pay so even though we really want bikes, we have no room. It's either a bike or a bed. Sigh.
yeah.... it's the same way here but there are SO MANY parking garages/facilities that are bike only. Bikes are super expensive here but they are also stolen atleast once every 1-2 years so you can't get something super nice that'll attract attention and you have to budget in that you'll be getting a new bike often.
BUT- As i said in my other post... the cities have great infrastructure for bikes. Almost every single road has a bike lane that is protected and has it's own lights. They are always well maintained and free of snow, trash, debris, etc. Even when construction is being done there are always new bike lanes/ramps/etc. put out for cyclists.
In my city there are also some cool counters that are put up on some of the busiest roads.
Translation says essentially "You are cyclist number x today." and "of total x cyclists this year on this road".
In addition to the bike lanes there are also cycle bridges that are overpasses for bikes only. One of the nicest ones i've seen is the one in the Netherlands called "Auke Vleerstraat" as pictured below.
I can't speak for the other two countries but i know here in denmark to buy a car or vehicle the sales price will be 3x of what it is in the US because they are taxed at %180. Gas is also 6$ a gallon. It is harder to commute by car because you are required to yeild to all pedestrians and cyclists at all times. And people DO yeild... you see some cars waiting 2-3 cycles of red lights to turn because of cycle and pedestrian traffic.
So atleast here, they made the environment more difficult AND expensive to drive, while being cheaper/faster to bike.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Belgium:
People: 10,827,519
Bicycles: 5,200,000
Cyclists: ~48%
In Belgium 8% of all trips are made by bike and 48% commute daily by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 0.9 km. In Belgium, cycling commuters are being paid 20 euro cents(29 U.S. cents) per kilometer, where as those in the Netherlands can earn 15 cents and participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free. In Belgium, a popular cycling nation and home to five-time Tour de France and Giro D'Italia winner Eddie Merckx, finance ministry figures show that more than 270,000 people took part in the scheme in 2010, up from 140,000 in 2006. In 2010, that meant the Belgian tax man paid out 43 million euros ($62 mln) to those who bill for cycling to work.
Netherlands:
People: 16,652,800
Bicycles: 16,500,000
Cyclists: ~99.1%
In the Netherlands 27% of all trips and 25% of trips to work are made by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 2.5 km. Holland and bicycles go together like bread and jam. Despite the recession the cycle-happy Dutch are still spending a lot of money on their bicycles – nearly 1 billion euros’ worth a year. About 1.3 million bicycles were sold in the Netherlands in 2009, at an average price of 713 euros ($1,008) each. Amsterdam (the capital and largest city of the Netherlands) is one of the most bicycle-friendly large cities in the world. It has 400 km of bike lanes and nearly 40% of all commutes in Amsterdam are done on bike.
Of course there's where i live:
Denmark:
People: 5,560,628
Bicycles: 4,500,000
Cyclists: ~80.1%
In the Denmark 18% of all trips are made by bike.The average distance cycled per person is 1.6 km. Cycling is generally perceived as a healthier, cheaper, environmentally friendlier and often even quicker way to travel around towns than car or public transport and it is therefore municipal policy for the number of commuters by bike to go up to 40% by 2012 and 50% by 2015. In Copenhagen (the capital of Denmark) 37% of all citizens ride their bike on a daily basis. The local town hall even offers the visitors rental bikes for free.Interesting fact: the average travelling speed in Copenhagen is 16 kph for cyclists and 27 kph for cars.
The fact of the matter is they have the infrastructure, knowledge, laws, and schemes in place to make being more active and riding to work the BETTER, easier, cheaper option.
So to answer your question? They are significantly more active on a daily basis. Even if you aren't biking you are walking around more often than the average desk-job American.
I think part of this being possible is the way towns and cities are structured in Europe. For me (in Florida), I have a job that's fairly close to home. It's still 12 miles away. Before transferring closer to home, my job was almost 20 miles away. I don't think the numbers would be quite as high in those countries if people were cycling 40 kilometers a day to work and back. My nearest grocery store is almost a 7 kilometer round trip. It's a short trip for a bike, but it's still 3x the distance quoted as being the daily average above. Our city planners have a lot to answer for.
ETA: Forgot to mention... you are right in that cities in the US in general have a larger urban sprawl. This is probably because they are not as old. They are constantly being built out and out and out.0 -
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I've been analysing cluster diet data published by the WHO, comparing against a world obesity map, and I'm finding unusual results. Belgium and the Netherlands do not have an obesity problem (less than 10% of the population), even though they consume almost 3,000 grams a day; higher than North America's diet of just over 2,000.
Not only that, they're carb-high! How does one explain this? My working theory is that this is a happy country, with possibly a more active population. Do they walk to work?
This does seem to fly in the face of the CICO model, and the theory that weight loss starts in the kitchen.
Puzzling.
What is meaningful about them being "happy" that might make you question the "cico model"?
Why is it meaningful to you that Saudi's and Egyptians are unhappy?
It kind of sounds like you think a mental disposition can dismantle physics?
Lots of thin unhappy people and fat happy people, so I'm not understanding your theory here.
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Lots of walking and cycling in both cities. Although if I lived in Belgium I think I would eat way more waffles and fries than I could ever walk off.0
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Belgium and the Netherlands do not have an obesity problem (less than 10% of the population), even though they consume almost 3,000 grams a day; higher than North America's diet of just over 2,000.
Not only that, they're carb-high! How does one explain this? My working theory is that this is a happy country, with possibly a more active population. Do they walk to work?
This does seem to fly in the face of the CICO model, and the theory that weight loss starts in the kitchen.
Puzzling.
Not puzzling at all. Have you been there? I have. Lots of walking. Lots of cycling. Maybe I noticed because I was walking and cycling myself when I was in both Belgium and the Netherlands. It's so easy to get around that way.
1) There is nothing wrong with carbs. It's the calories that matter.
2) This does not fly in the face of CICO ... if you're active, you're burning more calories.
3) As for weight loss beginning in the kitchen ....
-- You can lose weight by cutting back what you're eating and not exercising or not exercising much.
-- You can lose weight by continuing to eat what you normally eat, but increase the exercise.
-- You can lose weight by doing a combination of those things.
I've done each one of those at different times. All three work.0 -
I honestly believe it has something to do with their chocolate.0
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I honestly believe it has something to do with their chocolate.
The chocolate was indeed good.
However, waffles have been mentioned, and I don't recall seeing or eating those. Of course, we were cycletouring and camping so we used grocery stores and made our meals rather than eating in restaurants, so that might explain why I don't recall waffles.
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I've traveled in Europe many times. For the most part, serving sizes are smaller in restaurants and at home and people do not snack. They also don't walk down the street carrying Big Gulp containers. Since the proliferation of fast food, Europeans have gained weight. They have started to adopt the worst of American habits.0
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So did we ever resolve the "3000g" thing?0
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Talking about serving sizes.... from what I've seen American servings are much larger than the norm. For example, your small big mac meals, are our large size
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christinev297 wrote: »Talking about serving sizes.... from what I've seen American servings are much larger than the norm. For example, your small big mac meals, are our large size
Yes, speaking as a Canadian who has been living in Australia for the last 6 years ... and who has travelled all over the US, Europe, and a few other places ...
American servings are HUGE!! Like you say, their small big mac meals are the Aussie larges.
I notice it especially in the drink sizes. In the US, you order a large drink from a fast food outlet, and you get a bucket .... plus free refills. In Australia, you order a large drink, and you get the US small drink ... medium maybe if you're lucky. And there are no refills!
Serving sizes in non-fast food restaurants are different too ... huge in the US ... although I've hit some parma & chips meals here in Australia that have been quite large.
And buffets are popular in the US where you can gorge yourself ... and then go back for more! We encountered some in the southern US states where about the only vegetable on offer was cream corn. I don't think I've been to a buffet in Australia although I do hear rumours sometimes that small ones exist. Oh wait, I have! One particular restaurant had a Sunday brunch buffet which they put on for about 4 hours once a month, I think. They offered something like 10 choices ... very small.
Most places I've been don't have anything like what the US serves up.
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rainbowbow wrote: »?.. participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free.
Do you have a source for this scheme in Britain? I wasn't aware of it and I've cycle commuted 10 miles per day for the last 6 years, so if it exists I want in!
The scheme I am aware of is the 'cycle to work scheme' where employees are offered tax breaks on the cost of buying a new bike for commuting purposes. But the scheme is very flawed as it's actually a bike hire plan, where a sum is deducted from monthly salary pre-tax, but at the end of the 'hire' period, the cyclist must pay a lump sum if they want to keep the bike. Overall the savings are minimal (if anything) and when I looked into it I was better off purchasing a bike myself on a 0% interest credit card.
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There's no evidence in the OP that this flies in the face of CICO. If the average consumption is 3000 calories, then it would seem that the CO side is equal to this.0
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Hehe @Machka9 I don't think I've encountered a chicken parmy yet, that wasn't hanging off the side of the plate! :bigsmile:0
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They dont gorge on fried food and donuts and sit 24 hrs a day like the US0
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Hopefully next time someone chooses to start some sort of Belgium thread it will be about someone actually interesting, like waffles.
Here's a Belgian-themed gastropub in Chicago. I can recommend.
http://www.hopleafbar.com
Probably not many low cal options, though.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »the cities have great infrastructure for bikes. Almost every single road has a bike lane that is protected and has it's own lights. They are always well maintained and free of snow, trash, debris, etc. Even when construction is being done there are always new bike lanes/ramps/etc. put out for cyclists....
So atleast here, they made the environment more difficult AND expensive to drive, while being cheaper/faster to bike.
This is huge, of course. My city is probably really bike friendly for an American city, and yet it's nothing like that, and over half the population is in the suburbs, most of which have added challenges for significant bike commuting (not all--and some are great for biking for errands).0 -
In for the mysterious 3000 grams and American shaming.0
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In because I like Belgium0
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In for the OP to once again use crappy WHO data and critical thinking? Not even once0
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