Why is Belgium so Skinny?
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I am not trying to compare grams to calories, but country to country. Apples to apples.
As long as I stay within the data set and criteria for the calorie [edited to correct, dietary] clusters, countries can be compared with each other.0 -
So Belgium wins? We'll have to celebrate tonight! With lots of food and drinks!
seriously, just from what I see when stepping out the door, 1. the younger population is usually not overweight, I can only name three overweight children in my kids' primary school 2. most families eat reasonable amounts at home (e.g. I buy three pieces of meat to feed my 5-person household) but when we go out, then we eat and drink more, and it is usually not done to eat hot twice a day (I do anyway, that 's why I need to come here) 3. I do not believe we are skinnier than our neighbouring countries: France, the Netherlands, Germany or Luxembourg, or even the southern European countries. I've been to New Zealand and New York, and did not notice a difference, but when we went to Scotland, we saw a lot of heavy families in the lowlands, not so in the Highlands. But not to worry, we are catching up: Lots of kids prefer gaming and television over playing outside, and hamburgers are appearing more and more on restaurant Menues... We go to mcDonalds perhaps three times a year, but some families 'treat' their kids weekly (who knows why? Everything tastes like cardboard)
My thought: the figures OP mentioned are outdated, or rapidly becoming so, the war- and postwar generations are getting older, and so their more restrictive values are disappearing rapidly. On the other hand, there might be hope still. We are a nation of foodies, and still prefer quality over quantity. Let's re-address the topic 10 years from now. In the meantime, i'll just have a Belgian chocolate.0 -
Grrr, that chocolate cost me 80 kcals and I don't even like them that much0
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My thought: the figures OP mentioned are outdated, or rapidly becoming so, the war- and postwar generations are getting older, and so their more restrictive values are disappearing rapidly. On the other hand, there might be hope still. We are a nation of foodies, and still prefer quality over quantity. Let's re-address the topic 10 years from now. In the meantime, i'll just have a Belgian chocolate.
On our national health website I read yesterday that for The Netherlands they don't expect a growth for the coming 15 years or so. With all the attention obesity and overweightness has gotten, people seem to eat less and move more again.0 -
Even if Belgium was the fattest country in the world, they still have some of the best beer and chocolate.
And that's pretty big in my book...
Beer and Chocolate.
His and Hers paradise.
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I saw some people interviewed by researchers trying to determine what made a country score higher on the happiness scale. The winning country that year was the Netherlands. The people interviewed seemed rather stumped on why they scored so high, explaining that in general they don't live extravagant lives, often rent instead of own, often don't own motor vehicles and are heavily taxed.
Finally one guy said, "I think maybe our expectations are rather low, so we are easily pleased, which makes us happy."
For some reason that stuck with me.0 -
I've removed water and "out of classifying". Now Belgium is pretty on par with the US. They still have less of an overweight problem than the US, as does most of Europe.
Grams of WHAT?!?? That is literally like comparing "30 minutes of exercise" without knowing what the exercise was. The data is meaningless. Urg0 -
I am not trying to compare grams to calories, but country to country. Apples to apples.
As long as I stay within the data set and criteria for the calorie [edited to correct, dietary] clusters, countries can be compared with each other.
You're not even doing that though. You're comparing cluster to cluster, which =/= country to country and then it's a pointless exercise as food availability is not is not calculated the same in every country, no is it a great proxy for actual consumption and it can esp be misleading for large countries in terms of geography.
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@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
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@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
@Mr_Knight we figured out that they were saying the people were eating 3000 grams per day. In that was almost 1000 grams of water, so the US and Belgium have a food intake of 2000 grams of stuff daily. 2000 grams does not mean X amount of calories, just actual weight of food.0 -
@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
@Mr_Knight we figured out that they were saying the people were eating 3000 grams per day. In that was almost 1000 grams of water, so the US and Belgium have a food intake of 2000 grams of stuff daily. 2000 grams does not mean X amount of calories, just actual weight of food.
OMG.
Seriously?
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@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
@Mr_Knight we figured out that they were saying the people were eating 3000 grams per day. In that was almost 1000 grams of water, so the US and Belgium have a food intake of 2000 grams of stuff daily. 2000 grams does not mean X amount of calories, just actual weight of food.
OMG.
Seriously?
That's it. The data she was using was weight of food and drinks.0 -
@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
@Mr_Knight we figured out that they were saying the people were eating 3000 grams per day. In that was almost 1000 grams of water, so the US and Belgium have a food intake of 2000 grams of stuff daily. 2000 grams does not mean X amount of calories, just actual weight of food.
OMG.
Seriously?
That's it. The data she was using was weight of food and drinks.
Weird that a so called data fiend missed that, it took less than a minute for me to dl the spreadsheet and see the difference was mainly water intake0 -
@Mr_Knight , these grams do indeed also include consumption of liquids.
Where are you getting that they eat 12,000 calories worth of carbs per day? Show us a link.
I provided a link to my source.
Nowhere in your links did it say anyone was eating 12,000 calories a day (and that's the minimum for 3000g).
@Mr_Knight we figured out that they were saying the people were eating 3000 grams per day. In that was almost 1000 grams of water, so the US and Belgium have a food intake of 2000 grams of stuff daily. 2000 grams does not mean X amount of calories, just actual weight of food.
OMG.
Seriously?
That's it. The data she was using was weight of food and drinks.
Weird that a so called data fiend missed that, it took less than a minute for me to dl the spreadsheet and see the difference was mainly water intake
Even after finding out we ingest the same amount weight wise for calorie containing items I wanted to see if I could find a calorie and macro comparison. Seeing how they were almost identical for calorie intake and macro percentages, but Belgium is #66 on the world fatness scale and the US is #5, I am going to go with my first assumption that Belgium is more active.0 -
The misunderstanding was rectified. All good now
No need to make anyone feel like an eejit....
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christinev297 wrote: »The misunderstanding was rectified. All good now
No need to make anyone feel like an eejit....
Let's not mince words, it was not an understanding but a fundamental lack of basic research and intelligence.
"I've been analysing cluster diet data published by the WHO, comparing against a world obesity map, and I'm finding unusual results. Belgium and the Netherlands do not have an obesity problem (less than 10% of the population), even though they consume almost 3,000 grams a day; higher than North America's diet of just over 2,000."
Besides the fact that that the consumption included non caloric sources, OP considered the following countries as "North America"
Belarus, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Italy, Japan, Lativa, Malta, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United States of America
"With a mere 10% obesity rate, I'd say a good part of the country is doing things "right"."
Half the population is overweight
"however, if I compare apples to apples, comparisons can still be made."
Can't comprehend that they weren't comparing apples to apples
"I've removed water and "out of classifying". Now Belgium is pretty on par with the US. They still have less of an overweight problem than the US, as does most of Europe."
US now = Belarus, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Italy, Japan, Lativa, Malta, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United States of America
"I am not trying to compare grams to calories, but country to country. Apples to apples.
As long as I stay within the data set and criteria for the calorie [edited to correct, dietary] clusters, countries can be compared with each other."
Again, data integrity does not matter to the poster
So is it really a misunderstanding? If someone says they are analyzing something, how to they overlook the most basic things?
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Comparing this data to the obesity map yielded surprises. A country with the highest consumption also has a very low obesity rate. Why?
Why is obesity in Saudi Arabia so high when their food consumption is relatively low?
What other characteristics make these countries stand out? Daily physical activity is one, though that is anecdotal. Living in a fairly stable, healthy, educated community is another.
The U.S. obesity epidemic is uneven. Looking at a U.S. county obesity map makes this clear. Places like New England and California do not have the same obesity problem. What distinguishes the fat states/counties from the skinny ones? Poverty is one.
I just don't think we can blame obesity on the poor though, as if they are too ignorant or incapable of putting a reasonable diet together.
You may laugh but I have seen comments where the relatively prosperous lament that the poor can't access the wealth of food at a Whole Foods for instance.
I know you will probably overlook this but Saudis are fat because they eat a lot of fast foods and go out to a lot of restaurants. There are a lot of American chains in Saudi Arabia. I have no idea why you think they consume so little calories....The population is generally sendentry because it's hot as he'll 80% of the year, people drive everywhere in their air conditioned cars. I have spent time in Saudi and generally people are fat and content.
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And lots of other really good food. Belgians say that the best French cooking is in Belgium, and that the best Belgian cooking is in Leuven. Well, I've only heard the last part in Leuven, but, believe me, Belgians eat very well. Pastries, foie gras, frites, waffles, Belgian spaghetti (with vegetables and Emmental cheese), Bernaise and other sauces on their steak. When one is invited over for dinner in someone's home, be prepared for many courses of food and wine and conversation until 4:00 am.andrikosDE wrote: »Even if Belgium was the fattest country in the world, they still have some of the best beer and chocolate.
And that's pretty big in my book...
Beer and Chocolate.
His and Hers paradise.0 -
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Why is obesity in Saudi Arabia so high when their food consumption is relatively low?I know you will probably overlook this but Saudis are fat because they eat a lot of fast foods and go out to a lot of restaurants. There are a lot of American chains in Saudi Arabia. I have no idea why you think they consume so little calories....The population is generally sendentry because it's hot as he'll 80% of the year, people drive everywhere in their air conditioned cars. I have spent time in Saudi and generally people are fat and content.
I don't want to overlook evidence but the dietary cluster that Saudi Arabia says they do indeed eat less than the U.S./Belgian diet. Your observations are anecdotal.
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Should I be worried that my food intake is over 5000 grams per day?
Of course that includes over 3 liters of water but still...0 -
I am Dutch and yes I like many before me I think it has a lot to do with our infrastructure. It is safe to cycle everywhere and also the walkways are in good order. Not only that but if there is an accident that involves a car and a bicycle or pedestrian the cardriver is considered to be at falt first. It helps and as a result a lot of activity is happening in the streets on a daily basis.
We are a counrtry high in agriculture, specifically vegetables. I tend to think that this is one of the reasons why a lot of it is on our plates. Plus water is more popular than any soda here. It all helps
Having said that I was reading something on the WHO report by Prof Jaap Seidell - he is the country’s foremost obesity specialist and researcher (http://www.vu.nl/en/research/topresearchers-at-vu/university-professors/seidell/index.asp) and he stated that yes overall the Netherlands seem to be lower in the obesity stakes but that there is a worrying trend visible which is income related. It seems that the obesity rates in the lower income classes are on the increase. Too bad his twitter feed (@jaapseidell) is in Dutch as it is constant feed of sensible scientificly sound papers and knowledge.
I should add, I am prejudiced a little Prof Seidell was one of the teachers at my university - though at that stage he was still doing his PhD.0 -
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Why is obesity in Saudi Arabia so high when their food consumption is relatively low?I know you will probably overlook this but Saudis are fat because they eat a lot of fast foods and go out to a lot of restaurants. There are a lot of American chains in Saudi Arabia. I have no idea why you think they consume so little calories....The population is generally sendentry because it's hot as he'll 80% of the year, people drive everywhere in their air conditioned cars. I have spent time in Saudi and generally people are fat and content.
I don't want to overlook evidence but the dietary cluster that Saudi Arabia says they do indeed eat less than the U.S./Belgian diet. Your observations are anecdotal.
Lol. Still not very good at this.
The data isn't consumption, it is supply utilization, which can correspond to consumption, but the data you are referencing is not consumption.
There is also nothing that says Saudi Arabia eats less than the US or Belgium in terms of calories or volume.
Your observations are ignorant and show a distinct lack of ability to comprehend simple data sets0 -
When I was in Germany, I felt like I was the only fat person there. Not true of course, but walking is very normal there, taking the car for a 4 block trip to the store just didn't happen. I was talking to my friends grandmother, and she was laughing at a news article about a 40 hike some folks were doing for charity in the USA. She said, 40 miles, that's just a good start.0
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Yeah, biking has something to do with that, also they take their lunch to work avoiding over eating.0
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rainbowbow wrote: »Belgium:
People: 10,827,519
Bicycles: 5,200,000
Cyclists: ~48%
In Belgium 8% of all trips are made by bike and 48% commute daily by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 0.9 km. In Belgium, cycling commuters are being paid 20 euro cents(29 U.S. cents) per kilometer, where as those in the Netherlands can earn 15 cents and participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free. In Belgium, a popular cycling nation and home to five-time Tour de France and Giro D'Italia winner Eddie Merckx, finance ministry figures show that more than 270,000 people took part in the scheme in 2010, up from 140,000 in 2006. In 2010, that meant the Belgian tax man paid out 43 million euros ($62 mln) to those who bill for cycling to work.
Netherlands:
People: 16,652,800
Bicycles: 16,500,000
Cyclists: ~99.1%
In the Netherlands 27% of all trips and 25% of trips to work are made by bike. The average distance cycled per person per day is 2.5 km. Holland and bicycles go together like bread and jam. Despite the recession the cycle-happy Dutch are still spending a lot of money on their bicycles – nearly 1 billion euros’ worth a year. About 1.3 million bicycles were sold in the Netherlands in 2009, at an average price of 713 euros ($1,008) each. Amsterdam (the capital and largest city of the Netherlands) is one of the most bicycle-friendly large cities in the world. It has 400 km of bike lanes and nearly 40% of all commutes in Amsterdam are done on bike.
Of course there's where i live:
Denmark:
People: 5,560,628
Bicycles: 4,500,000
Cyclists: ~80.1%
In the Denmark 18% of all trips are made by bike.The average distance cycled per person is 1.6 km. Cycling is generally perceived as a healthier, cheaper, environmentally friendlier and often even quicker way to travel around towns than car or public transport and it is therefore municipal policy for the number of commuters by bike to go up to 40% by 2012 and 50% by 2015. In Copenhagen (the capital of Denmark) 37% of all citizens ride their bike on a daily basis. The local town hall even offers the visitors rental bikes for free.Interesting fact: the average travelling speed in Copenhagen is 16 kph for cyclists and 27 kph for cars.
The fact of the matter is they have the infrastructure, knowledge, laws, and schemes in place to make being more active and riding to work the BETTER, easier, cheaper option.
So to answer your question? They are significantly more active on a daily basis. Even if you aren't biking you are walking around more often than the average desk-job American.
Well in all fairness, I live in NYC and we might as well be living in a box with how little space we get for what we pay so even though we really want bikes, we have no room. It's either a bike or a bed. Sigh.
You need a Brompton... Amazing folding bikes from the UK.0 -
KarenJanine wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »?.. participants in Britain up to 20 pence (32 U.S. cents) per mile -- all of it tax-free.
Do you have a source for this scheme in Britain? I wasn't aware of it and I've cycle commuted 10 miles per day for the last 6 years, so if it exists I want in!
The scheme I am aware of is the 'cycle to work scheme' where employees are offered tax breaks on the cost of buying a new bike for commuting purposes. But the scheme is very flawed as it's actually a bike hire plan, where a sum is deducted from monthly salary pre-tax, but at the end of the 'hire' period, the cyclist must pay a lump sum if they want to keep the bike. Overall the savings are minimal (if anything) and when I looked into it I was better off purchasing a bike myself on a 0% interest credit card.
I think this is when you claim expenses for a journey. So say I have a meeting out my office, but in the same town, I could cycle there and claim 15p per mile.
Not just your regular commute... As you couldn't claim for it in a car.0 -
fabian_chipper wrote: »Yeah, biking has something to do with that, also they take their lunch to work avoiding over eating.
Is that such a weird thing to do? I figured people in other countries did this as well.
I'm Belgian...I find this thread funny, to be honest. How I wish I was as skinny as the rest of Belgium apparently is.
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I am Dutch too and I agree with weavingtheweb: although a minority may be really obese, almost half of the population is overweight including me. But I recently read that we still have the best figures of Europe. Some factors that may contribute to that: 1) It's very common here to cycle to work, school, etc. The roads are safe for that (a lot of special bike roads). That is not seen as exercise, but as transport. 2) People tend to be tall and skinny (except for me). Maybe a genetic thing? 3) We consume a lot of dairy products and meat. Containing growth hormones (that may have caused people being so tall?). Maybe there is something associated with milk and weight. Maybe a more healthy bacterial population in your belly? This is pure speculation on my side.0
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Americans are sedentary. We are in a crisis. Over 50% of our population is overweight to obese, including our children.0
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