How do you know when it's time for first bulk?

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galgenstrick
galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
How can you tell when you're at the right body fat % for a first time bulk?

Calipers say I'm at 12%, the bioimpedence scale says I'm at 16%, and in the mirror and comparing with the online pictures I look closer to the 15% category. I don't have very much muscle, so maybe it's hard to tell from the online pictures which show more athletic men in the under 20% categories.

Any insight from people that went from overweight into their first bulk?
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Replies

  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
    edited May 2015
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    You just know =D

    I'm not sure of the percentages for guys, post some pics and you should get some decent feedback.

    edit: MFP only wanted to post half my answer :/
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    When you want to start getting big again and push your strength to new levels. Really it depends on the person and their goals but a lot of people like to get at least to the 10-12% mark before starting. I hit around 8% and am still under 10% but it's all a personal issue.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    When you want to start getting big again and push your strength to new levels. Really it depends on the person and their goals but a lot of people like to get at least to the 10-12% mark before starting. I hit around 8% and am still under 10% but it's all a personal issue.

    Thanks, I guess my question is, how do you know when you're at the 10-12% range when you don't really have any muscle and are getting a lot of different readings from calipers / scale / pics.

    Edit: I should clarify that I want to bulk for both strength and appearance.
  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
    edited May 2015
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    not really about percentages. there comes a time when you know if you have enough muscle to keep cutting. If you don't have much muscle as you say. then bulk forget about the percentages for now.

    I was 185, overweight, got down to 151. wanted to go to 145 but my RD said you need to bulk. I'm back up to 162 and will probably bulk for another 5 weeks min. I would love to cut right now for the summer but it is not in the cards. Do what is best for you and forget about the beach, at least this year
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,404 Member
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    When in doubt, bulk......

    If your modest with your surplus 250 cals you're not going to balloon up. The nice thing about bulking is you can always dial back the calories if needed.

    I was once in your shoes and I thought I needed to "cut" down to a certain percentage. In reality I was wasting time and should have been at least at TDEE and focusing on building strength and muscle.

    Many people will say on here just cut to "x BF%" to be ripped or see your abs.....well If you don’t have the muscle underneath you won’t have anything to show....... I'm still working on my core and chest as they are my least aesthetic features.

    My calipers say 12.5% but I don't get caught up on what my "true" BF % is. It's simply a number for me to use as a guide during my bulk. My plan is to bulk until my calipers say 16-17% BF and do the "Mirror" test.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
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    Thanks guys. Here's some pics I took today, down 30lbs from when I started MFP. @MrM27 @ndj1979 Do you mind weighing in?



    qqepbgrzkoxf.jpg

    l9w3wwkfyaq4.jpg
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,404 Member
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    START LIFTING and BULK BABY BULK!!!
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    galgenstrick wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    When you want to start getting big again and push your strength to new levels. Really it depends on the person and their goals but a lot of people like to get at least to the 10-12% mark before starting. I hit around 8% and am still under 10% but it's all a personal issue.

    Thanks, I guess my question is, how do you know when you're at the 10-12% range when you don't really have any muscle and are getting a lot of different readings from calipers / scale / pics.

    Edit: I should clarify that I want to bulk for both strength and appearance.

    When you can start to see your middle and top abs clearly and start to see your lower abs but not very clearly you will likely be in that range.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
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    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    galgenstrick wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    When you want to start getting big again and push your strength to new levels. Really it depends on the person and their goals but a lot of people like to get at least to the 10-12% mark before starting. I hit around 8% and am still under 10% but it's all a personal issue.

    Thanks, I guess my question is, how do you know when you're at the 10-12% range when you don't really have any muscle and are getting a lot of different readings from calipers / scale / pics.

    Edit: I should clarify that I want to bulk for both strength and appearance.

    When you can start to see your middle and top abs clearly and start to see your lower abs but not very clearly you will likely be in that range.

    Thanks, if I stretch my belly skin, then I can see them. Otherwise not so much.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Lifting program is Stronglifts 5x5 for the past 3 months, didn't lift before that
    I'm eating ~1800 calories on average every day and losing weight pretty steadily at 1.5lbs / week
    Macros are 35% Carbs, 40% protein, 25% fat. I feel pretty good with these numbers, plenty of energy and satiety.
    I started at 192 pounds and am down to 162. So about 30 pounds lost


    My current plan was to cut down to about 155, then slowly ramp calories to bulk, and start "Bigger, Leaner, Stronger" It seems like a good program which focus on strength with compound lifts as well as aesthetics.

    I'm also well aware that the body I want is going to take about 3 years or maybe longer, and I'm not going to look great this summer, but probably next summer :smile:
  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
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    based on the pics...bulk bulk bulk
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
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    Oh, I'm also aware that If I cut a little more I'm still not going to look good until I put on some muscle haha, but I don't mind too much because I'm still looking a lot better than I did when I started. That's why my plan was to cut a little more down to 155.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    galgenstrick wrote: »
    Thanks guys. Here's some pics I took today, down 30lbs from when I started MFP. @MrM27 @ndj1979 Do you mind weighing in?



    qqepbgrzkoxf.jpg

    l9w3wwkfyaq4.jpg

    I would put you at 13-15%....

    what do you think @MrM27 ?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    MrM27 wrote: »
    galgenstrick wrote: »
    Thanks guys. Here's some pics I took today, down 30lbs from when I started MFP. @MrM27 @ndj1979 Do you mind weighing in?

    As far as how do you know when you're in the lower teen range without a dunk test or scan, I feel visual estimates are best. Calipers and bio-impedance readers have so many flaws that if you are looking to hit somewhere from 10-12% and it's reading improperly then you are planning your goals on faulty information.

    In your case I am going to have to say that the bio impedance reader is actually kind of accurate. The biggest issue as you've stated is lack of lbm. If you continue to lose more weight you will look thinner but it won't be so much of an improvement. What is your lifting program like?
    How long have you been lifting?
    What's you intake as far as calories and macros?
    How much weight have you lost?

    I know I don't have the responses yet but I'm going to tell you what advice I'm inclined to give because I think I already know the answers to those questions. As one poster above mentioned already, whatever vanity goals you might have had for this summer probably won't happen. I'm not knocking vanity because I'm very vain. Losing weight will leave you as a skinnier version of your current self and I don't think a full blown bulk is necessary right now in your case. I would honestly get the intake right around maintenance if it's slightly higher like 100 of so I think that's fine. From the looks of it you are under trained and you can make decent progress through beginner gains. I would probably take the entire summer and fall to be at maintenance and get on a proper program. Nothing will improve your appearance if your programming isn't right. The fat have now and whatever fat you accumulate in the next 2 seasons, if any, can be addressed next spring to prepare for the summer. That will leave you in a position to get ready for next summer. After that you can get on standard bulk/cut cycles to make your way to your long term goal. It's a long term so don't sabotage yourself by expecting instant results. Proper nutrition, proper training and patience.

    I agree, and was thinking that you should go to maintenance over the summer months and then run a bulk staring on September first and then run that until about February 1 and re-assess where you are. Aim for .5 pound gain when you do bulk, and make sure that you take starting measurements so that you can track progress.

    if you frankly don't give a damn about vanity, which to quote Al Pacino is my favorite sin LOL - then go ahead and run the bulk now and run it up until December 1 and re-assess where you are then..

    Are you on a structured lifting program?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    galgenstrick wrote: »
    Lifting program is Stronglifts 5x5 for the past 3 months, didn't lift before that
    I'm eating ~1800 calories on average every day and losing weight pretty steadily at 1.5lbs / week
    Macros are 35% Carbs, 40% protein, 25% fat. I feel pretty good with these numbers, plenty of energy and satiety.
    I started at 192 pounds and am down to 162. So about 30 pounds lost


    My current plan was to cut down to about 155, then slowly ramp calories to bulk, and start "Bigger, Leaner, Stronger" It seems like a good program which focus on strength with compound lifts as well as aesthetics.

    I'm also well aware that the body I want is going to take about 3 years or maybe longer, and I'm not going to look great this summer, but probably next summer :smile:

    whoops, just saw this response.

    that sounds like a legit plan to me....if you are losing 1.5 pounds a week maybe you could bump up to one pound per week loss so that you retain some muscle...?
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
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    Squat: 100
    Bench: 120
    Row: 95
    OH press: 60
    Deadlift: 175

    I'm making very slow strength gains. I had to deload the squats a couple times to correct form, still getting used to doing it correctly. But the others that I have an easier time with form are increasing. The starting lifts were the recommended start for SL5x5, basically the bar on all the lifts except 65 on DL and Row.

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