How can I get off the sugar?
Replies
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It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
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Sugar isn't the issue, but if its a trigger for you - reduce it. Substitute with drink subs like stevia/mio/etc. As for coffee try cutting sugar and just using milk/creamer or trying any of the unlimited versions of tea out there.
As long as your calories out exceed your calories in and nutrient/macros are met you're fine for both weight loss/maintenance and general health.
Don't buy into trendy diet nonsense. There are far too many variables to diet and exercise to blame one specific item whether it be GMO, real butter, eggs, carbs, high fructose corn syrup, or any of the other excuses de jour. It's all garbage science based on cherry picked data that supports the desired hypothesis.
Unless you have some other medical condition sugar is fine, gives you some quick energy.0 -
I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.0 -
Feel free to tell yourself whatever you need to feel better about the level of lack of personal responsibility.
Oh please, talk about twisting words.0 -
No, I don't think you do.I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.
They've been debunked using scientific principles. Opinions don't debunk. You can't debunk something by having a different opinion.
If you believe that's how science works or that Fed Up is based on science then, yeah, you do have a problem, whether you are able to recognize it or not.
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I don't exclude every food group categorically.
So I eat those too.
I am concerned with the total sugar in my diet. I don't think we are on radically different planes here. I think I understand your point. In fact I'm sure. I don't think I am making mine clear.
I (me personally) really truly do believe that the most success, the longest lasting, the most maintainable healthy self I have achieved in 30yrs of dieting (and yes I have not been lucky enough to just grow up in a household where good diet was the norm and later it just was "the way I eat". Not suggesting you were buy if you were then great) I achieved when I made an effort of specifically cutting "out" sugar.
When I was still craving sugar I would try to find ways to substitute it in my life. So I made some almond flour banana bread. No sugar. Portioned it out. Served me a serving of 179 calories. I could hardly wait to eat it. My mouth watered. It was super yummy. Took my time. Then sat. Waiting. For what I did not know. Still I waited. After 15 min I said "funny doesn't feel like I ate banana bread". I seriously said that to myself. So I got up and got another. Thinking that would satisfy my crave. 179 Cal more later... No such luck. I enjoyed the rest of my loaf over the course of my week in the alloted portions. Satisfied. No more craving. Craving is he'll. Craving is being unable to think of anything else but my next donut. I don't want to go back there. Not even if I just ate 179 Cal of a donut. It affects me in not a good way.
I feel that the high sugar contents affect me like a drug and turns me into a sugar seeking addict for whom, and believe me this is true, there are no limit . Not the same way an almond laden banana bread slice affects me. Just the way it worked for me.
So. Do I count my Cal absolutely. When my body is on less sugar percentage fuel it feels better and I can stay within my limits without effort. Or at least far less effort. And I can't argue with that.
What was your point with the banana bread example?
That 179 calories of almond banana bread affect me differently than I expected 179 calories of a higher sugar content banana bread. I did not feel my usual sugar high. It was the moment I realized what a sugar high I really experience when I consume it in those quantities. And once I get that high, I becomes impossible to resist consuming more of it and going for more of it.
Resisting the urge becomes easier for me when I limit the sugar. It is what it is.
I have this same experience with bread made from flour vs that from sprouted grains like Alvarado St Bakery or Food for Life - flour makes me cravey/bingey and sprouted grain bread does not.
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i have just recently decided enough is enough, I need to lose the excess weight! I am the biggest I have ever been, from the tracking I am doing, I'm finding my worst enemy is my coffee/sugar! I do truly believe I'm addicted and how can I get off it? Any tips or advice? Plz feel free to friend me to chat
Hi Tash - I'm wondering if you mean all sugar, which would include that in fruits, or sugar in empty calories?
For reducing sugar in my black tea, I just kept using smaller and smaller amounts over time.
For green tea, I often drink the kinds from Celestial Seasoning that includes stevia/Rebiana.
http://www.celestialseasonings.com/search/node/stevia
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So many experts...0
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For me, I found it helpful to break up the caffeine source and the sugar source, and then deal with each one separately. For example, do you feel the same craving if you keep the sugar the same but use decaf? How about regular coffee with non-sugar sweetener? What if you experiment with different coffees to find one that tastes good to you black (they exist!) and then eat some fruit as needed for the sugar kick?
Or, drink your coffee the way you like it, but only one cup that you really savor and make fit in your macros?0 -
Use the quote function so it doesn't look like you're talking to yourself.kshama2001 wrote: »Oh please, talk about twisting words.
It made more sense before you edited your post.
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Sarasmaintaining wrote: »
Saying all that still doesn't make what you said before accurate.I eat a lot of vegetables. Yes. Is that wrong? Hmmm.
I have struggled for lifetime and Im quite happy with my progress. Not satisfied yet but i I tend never to be fully satisfied as I don't believe I will ever stop trying to learn more ways to eat better.
So in answer to your question. Yes I do eat a lot vegetables. Actually I don't eat rice. I do eat fruit.
What don't I do. I don't exclude every food group categorically. So have I eaten rice in the last year yes. Have I eaten pasta? A bite out two. Have I put milk in my coffee on a random day? Yep.
Do I drink beer? Yep.
Am I addicted to fruits vegetables and rice. Lol. No.
Addicted is what I was when I couldn't stop eating processed foods. I was addicted to sugar.
The point of my post was to share my story with the original poster and let her know it is possible to give up a sugar addiction. And also that 100% quitting sugar is not only not desirable but not possible. However "essentially" quitting it does reduce it to a level in my diet where a whole other spectrum of food is open to me and I find it more easy to carry on with those better choices without the Enormous Levels that were formerly present.
I am freer than ever when it comes to food choice.
Incidentally. I also eat meat and eggs.
Have a great day and journey.
And no. You weren't addicted to sugar. You just really like eating it. It's the same sugar in fruit you are just choosing to believe it's different.
+1
+2.
There is nothing wrong with eating less sugar, but saying you (you in the general sense) are/were addicted to it usually means that you are not taking responsibility to moderate things with added sugar. Never give your power away to food like that.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, I don't think you do.I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.
They've been debunked using scientific principles. Opinions don't debunk. You can't debunk something by having a different opinion.
If you believe that's how science works or that Fed Up is based on science then, yeah, you do have a problem, whether you are able to recognize it or not.
That article you linked doesn't "debunk" anything.
Just out of interest I followed the link within in that was supposed to prove that Dr Lustig (aka Mr Anti-Sugar) is talking out of his *kitten*. In fact it transpires that the writer (David Katz) completely agrees with Lustig about the dangers of the overconsumption of sugar, and agrees that sugar can be addictive. He just doesn't believe (as Lustig apparently does) that fructose should be singled out for particular blame.
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I don't exclude every food group categorically.
So I eat those too.
I am concerned with the total sugar in my diet. I don't think we are on radically different planes here. I think I understand your point. In fact I'm sure. I don't think I am making mine clear.
I (me personally) really truly do believe that the most success, the longest lasting, the most maintainable healthy self I have achieved in 30yrs of dieting (and yes I have not been lucky enough to just grow up in a household where good diet was the norm and later it just was "the way I eat". Not suggesting you were buy if you were then great) I achieved when I made an effort of specifically cutting "out" sugar.
When I was still craving sugar I would try to find ways to substitute it in my life. So I made some almond flour banana bread. No sugar. Portioned it out. Served me a serving of 179 calories. I could hardly wait to eat it. My mouth watered. It was super yummy. Took my time. Then sat. Waiting. For what I did not know. Still I waited. After 15 min I said "funny doesn't feel like I ate banana bread". I seriously said that to myself. So I got up and got another. Thinking that would satisfy my crave. 179 Cal more later... No such luck. I enjoyed the rest of my loaf over the course of my week in the alloted portions. Satisfied. No more craving. Craving is he'll. Craving is being unable to think of anything else but my next donut. I don't want to go back there. Not even if I just ate 179 Cal of a donut. It affects me in not a good way.
I feel that the high sugar contents affect me like a drug and turns me into a sugar seeking addict for whom, and believe me this is true, there are no limit . Not the same way an almond laden banana bread slice affects me. Just the way it worked for me.
So. Do I count my Cal absolutely. When my body is on less sugar percentage fuel it feels better and I can stay within my limits without effort. Or at least far less effort. And I can't argue with that.
What was your point with the banana bread example?
That 179 calories of almond banana bread affect me differently than I expected 179 calories of a higher sugar content banana bread. I did not feel my usual sugar high. It was the moment I realized what a sugar high I really experience when I consume it in those quantities. And once I get that high, I becomes impossible to resist consuming more of it and going for more of it.
Resisting the urge becomes easier for me when I limit the sugar. It is what it is.
There is absolutely not a thing wrong with limiting/moderating any food at all, including sugar. To me, when you say you got "high," it makes me think you just ate too much of the sweet stuff, and a person will usually not feel good eating too much of anything. For example, I love freshly cooked spinach and I feel great (high) from eating a lot it, but then I feel pretty awful after I've stuffed myself with it.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, I don't think you do.I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.
They've been debunked using scientific principles. Opinions don't debunk. You can't debunk something by having a different opinion.
If you believe that's how science works or that Fed Up is based on science then, yeah, you do have a problem, whether you are able to recognize it or not.
You have no idea where I am on my journey. I have no notion of yours. We probably have closer views than you think. But the topic here was advice for someone who wants to cut their sugar. So yes- shared some which helped me in a similar endeavor. And I think they probably appreciate that.
Someone has posted a nice link with an opposing view. I'm sure you have several. Your posts would have an entirely different tone if you tempered them with some and avoided the personal assaults on other people of whom you know nothing.
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I think this about sums up this train wreck of a thread:
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Just cut out added sugar. Regardless of the "calorie is a calorie" people, your body doesn't need sugar to excess. Fruit is fine.0
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Why is it that every time someone comes on here and tries to ask for advice on how to cut back on sugar, the sugar-defendants come out and try to convince them not to? Not at all helpful.
OP, I cut back on drinking sugary calories by replacing soda with sweet tea and then little by little each week I've cut back a teaspoon here teaspoon there. My teas now have half the sugar they used to have and still taste sweet enough for me. Just had to go slow. Maybe that something that you can do with your coffee.
Mmmmm........
The op said:I'm finding my worst enemy is my coffee/sugar! I do truly believe I'm addicted and how can I get off it
She's not asking about cutting back, she's saying she's addicted to sugar (no such thing) and she wants to get off of it (you can't).0 -
Show me a personal assault I made.DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, I don't think you do.I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.
They've been debunked using scientific principles. Opinions don't debunk. You can't debunk something by having a different opinion.
If you believe that's how science works or that Fed Up is based on science then, yeah, you do have a problem, whether you are able to recognize it or not.
You have no idea where I am on my journey. I have no notion of yours. We probably have closer views than you think. But the topic here was advice for someone who wants to cut their sugar. So yes- shared some which helped me in a similar endeavor. And I think they probably appreciate that.
Someone has posted a nice link with an opposing view. I'm sure you have several. Your posts would have an entirely different tone if you tempered them with some and avoided the personal assaults on other people of whom you know nothing.
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What article did I link?Chrysalid2014 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
No, I don't think you do.I don't have a problemDeguelloTex wrote: »
It doesn't bother me that the videos helped you. Crystal pyramids help some people. What bothers me is the foisting of intellectual garbage in the guise of "hey, we don't know everything."ThanDeguelloTex wrote: »@nvmroz If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. Have at it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or evil about sugar or that the videos you mention are anything except pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Insightful. Thank you.
My advice was for the person who started the thread. And actually she did want to cut ter sugar back.
If you want to eat large quantities of sugar then eat large quantities of sugar. "Have it. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong or evil" about not eating sugar in large quantities.
And those videos did help me on my journey- sorry if that bothers you but it is what it is. It helped me start. And since the poster was asking for tips... Well that's that.
Glad your journey has landed you at the pinnacle of scientific truth. Congratulations.
Peace out.
The videos you link have been thoroughly debunked. If debunked "science" motivates you, that's your problem. It doesn't need to be made someone else's problem by letting them be recommended as if they bear any relationship to reality.
I didn't write anything about the merits or lack thereof of cutting back sugar. I wrote only about the egregiously bad links you posted in support of cutting back.
I don't have a problem
But thanks for caring.
Debunked by another opinion. I see. I get it now.
They've been debunked using scientific principles. Opinions don't debunk. You can't debunk something by having a different opinion.
If you believe that's how science works or that Fed Up is based on science then, yeah, you do have a problem, whether you are able to recognize it or not.
That article you linked doesn't "debunk" anything.
Just out of interest I followed the link within in that was supposed to prove that Dr Lustig (aka Mr Anti-Sugar) is talking out of his *kitten*. In fact it transpires that the writer (David Katz) completely agrees with Lustig about the dangers of the overconsumption of sugar, and agrees that sugar can be addictive. He just doesn't believe (as Lustig apparently does) that fructose should be singled out for particular blame.
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Feel free to tell yourself whatever you need to feel better about the level of lack of personal responsibility.Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
I don't exclude every food group categorically.
So I eat those too.
I am concerned with the total sugar in my diet. I don't think we are on radically different planes here. I think I understand your point. In fact I'm sure. I don't think I am making mine clear.
I (me personally) really truly do believe that the most success, the longest lasting, the most maintainable healthy self I have achieved in 30yrs of dieting (and yes I have not been lucky enough to just grow up in a household where good diet was the norm and later it just was "the way I eat". Not suggesting you were buy if you were then great) I achieved when I made an effort of specifically cutting "out" sugar.
When I was still craving sugar I would try to find ways to substitute it in my life. So I made some almond flour banana bread. No sugar. Portioned it out. Served me a serving of 179 calories. I could hardly wait to eat it. My mouth watered. It was super yummy. Took my time. Then sat. Waiting. For what I did not know. Still I waited. After 15 min I said "funny doesn't feel like I ate banana bread". I seriously said that to myself. So I got up and got another. Thinking that would satisfy my crave. 179 Cal more later... No such luck. I enjoyed the rest of my loaf over the course of my week in the alloted portions. Satisfied. No more craving. Craving is he'll. Craving is being unable to think of anything else but my next donut. I don't want to go back there. Not even if I just ate 179 Cal of a donut. It affects me in not a good way.
I feel that the high sugar contents affect me like a drug and turns me into a sugar seeking addict for whom, and believe me this is true, there are no limit . Not the same way an almond laden banana bread slice affects me. Just the way it worked for me.
So. Do I count my Cal absolutely. When my body is on less sugar percentage fuel it feels better and I can stay within my limits without effort. Or at least far less effort. And I can't argue with that.
What was your point with the banana bread example?
That 179 calories of almond banana bread affect me differently than I expected 179 calories of a higher sugar content banana bread. I did not feel my usual sugar high. It was the moment I realized what a sugar high I really experience when I consume it in those quantities. And once I get that high, I becomes impossible to resist consuming more of it and going for more of it.
Resisting the urge becomes easier for me when I limit the sugar. It is what it is.
I hear you! It's the same for me.
People say it can't be an addiction because with an addiction the person can't have any of the addictive substance at all. I don't believe that because if that's true why can reformed alcoholics consume rum cake and coq au vin without relapsing?
I think it's something to do with the concentration of the substance in whatever form you're consuming it, so your banana bread example makes complete sense.
If it's an addiction then it's an addiction to all sugar, not just the ones you have no self control around. Your body is processing everything, you are just choosing to believe some magical process happens because it's from a different source. It's a cop out
If the amount of the addictive substance is low enough in the thing being consumed, then it apparently doesn't produce what are called the "psychoactive and rewarding effects" - i.e. it doesn't reinforce the addiction.
There was a proposal about 20 years ago to force the tobacco industry to do this with cigarettes (i.e. reduce the amount of nicotine until it was below this threshold) but mysteriously it never materialised.cwolfman13 wrote: »Why is it that every time someone comes on here and tries to ask for advice on how to cut back on sugar, the sugar-defendants come out and try to convince them not to? Not at all helpful.
because people are ignorant and like to compare sugar to crack cocaine...it's ridiculous...
most people who eat anything resembling the SAD could definitely stand to cut back on their sugar consumption...but the way it gets portrayed as some kind of crack around here is just ridiculous.
Yeap, we need balance on both sides of the fence. Sugar is not crack, BUT most of us are eating too much of it and would benefit from cutting back.
I don't disagree. But I also agree that we in general eat to much of every macronutrient. Sugar just happens to be what many of us go to but not because we are addicts, it's because it's taste so damn good. People can't just admit things. One day someone will come by and say "Hi my name is..... and I love sour patch kids and eat a lot of it, not because I'm addicted to sugar but because I'm a glutton". Hopefully.I'm still confused. So eating sugary banana bread made you high and made you crave it. The low sugar banana bread didn't make you high. So you ate more low sugar banana bread to make sure that you weren't getting high? And you concluded that a 179 Cal donut made you feel bad too.
The stuff I read on here....
Yeah. It is too bad you don't get it.
Stick around a bit longer before you say who gets it and doesn't. You don't even know yet what you get and don't get.
Don't think I was referring to you when I made my comment about getting it. I have every right to feel that someone is or is not getting my point. It is my point to deliberate upon. It is my opinion.
What is sad is that the OP was asking for advice on how to lower sugar not a discussion on the merits of it. I hope you (op) find your inspirations.
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