City of Davis to institute new ordinance on soda "ban" with kid's meals

No, but today's people know that being overweight/obese is a bad thing. If they KNOW that, then why aren't they able to avoid it?

What if learning about how to eat correctly was a class curriculum?

Here's my views on your first assumption. I'd like to point out that sometime in the past 20 years overweight stopped being synonymous with "unhealthy". Despite the overwhelming evidence that being overweight and even obese has ill effects on health, as the population grows even larger (and seemingly more sensitive to weight) the media presence overall tends to float towards the "body acceptance" movement. Each and every day I see more and more "curvy" "effyourbeautystandards" nonsense.

I'd implore you to explore the following:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BodyAcceptance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/
http://bigliberty.net/
etc.

People are now being encouraged to "embrace their curves", and that somehow weight doesn't have any correlation with health. You can be "healthy" at any size!

As far as education is concerned, i agree wholeheartedly, however, I have to wonder how that would even begin to be implemented. It seems as if schools who DO try and offer nutritional information (based on fact) are being bombarded with lawsuits by said people above for being a "nanny" or by companies/figures with an interest in business which have some sort of "all carbs are evil" "sugar is the problem" "no you're eating too much fat" "The type of fat you're eating is the real problem" and so forth.

http://healthyenough.net/calorie-counting/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

Even for suggesting material on calories in/calories out is being debated by these people.

At some point I have to ask, do these people just not CARE about their size? Do they just not CARE about their health? Why do they CHOOSE to do this even when presented with the truth?

I dont know. I think something better needs to be addressed here. How many people think feeding their children a lunch of cheetos, oreos, and a big gulp soda is perfectly fine? I'd say far too many. And it's them (and us) who pay the price.

If education is implemented, will that solve the obesity crisis? I don't know. I still think many would choose to follow the path of the glutton...

ndj1979 wrote: »

So my answer to your question, is that there really is no easy answer. Now if this was communist china we could just put everyone in labor camps and they would be active and thin, but they would have zero freedom …LOL

but... but... starvation mode.

ninerbuff wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

No, but today's people know that being overweight/obese is a bad thing. If they KNOW that, then why aren't they able to avoid it?

What if learning about how to eat correctly was a class curriculum?

Here's my views on your first assumption. I'd like to point out that sometime in the past 20 years overweight stopped being synonymous with "unhealthy". Despite the overwhelming evidence that being overweight and even obese has ill effects on health, as the population grows even larger (and seemingly more sensitive to weight) the media presence overall tends to float towards the "body acceptance" movement. Each and every day I see more and more "curvy" "effyourbeautystandards" nonsense.

I'd implore you to explore the following:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BodyAcceptance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/
http://bigliberty.net/
etc.

People are now being encouraged to "embrace their curves", and that somehow weight doesn't have any correlation with health. You can be "healthy" at any size!

As far as education is concerned, i agree wholeheartedly, however, I have to wonder how that would even begin to be implemented. It seems as if schools who DO try and offer nutritional information (based on fact) are being bombarded with lawsuits by said people above for being a "nanny" or by companies/figures with an interest in business which have some sort of "all carbs are evil" "sugar is the problem" "no you're eating too much fat" "The type of fat you're eating is the real problem" and so forth.

http://healthyenough.net/calorie-counting/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

Even for suggesting material on calories in/calories out is being debated by these people.

At some point I have to ask, do these people just not CARE about their size? Do they just not CARE about their health? Why do they CHOOSE to do this even when presented with the truth?

I dont know. I think something better needs to be addressed here. How many people think feeding their children a lunch of cheetos, oreos, and a big gulp soda is perfectly fine? I'd say far too many. And it's them (and us) who pay the price.

If education is implemented, will that solve the obesity crisis? I don't know. I still think many would choose to follow the path of the glutton...

Well I would think people think that way because it's all they know. I mean take a phone away from the average teen today and what do you think would happen? IMO, they'd probably freak out so bad because they don't know HOW to live without their phone. Social media today takes up a lot of their time.
Take those same teens and teach them a program on how to interact with others at social gatherings, clubs, cheerleading, football, science club, going to the library, etc. BEFORE getting them a phone, and these kids probably would be fine finding a way to do without a phone.

I have a TV. I have a computer. They DON'T dominate my life because I've learned things to do outside of what they offer. I love the gym, I like walking, I spend time outside with my daughter.
There are lots and lots of adults who can't say the same because they either don't know, or weren't exposed positively to the benefits.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Agreed. But i guess my point would be that there needs to be an overall shift in society's views regarding obesity, weight, and health. And with all of the social media campaigns, multimillion dollar "diet industry", and so on I don't see that happening any time soon.

stealthq wrote: »

jesikalovesyou wrote: »

stealthq wrote: »

jesikalovesyou wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

jesikalovesyou wrote: »

I don't drink soda, my husband does, but my kids also don't. I grew up drinking soda and Kool-aid. I was always overweight and obese and I know drinking soda and such doesn't help. I also had cavities all the time.

So in other words your parent(s) didn't work and educate you adequately and you had inadequate oral hygiene habits.

I see parents all the time buying large sodas for their kids (and toddlers!) and they just sit there slurping down probably all the calories they need in a day.

I think teaching kids to drink water (and even milk) will help them in the long run. My son will ask for water before anything else. When we go out, he would choose a banana as a treat over doughnuts or cookies any day.

So you're educating him on better options right?

We give them the tools (or take the bad stuff out of the forefront) and it will help them learn healthy habits for the future!

So if we ban drugs and alcohol or keep them away from kids, that's a for sure way to ensure they don't engage in either?

Education is more important than banning. Lots and lots of kids who become legal adults at 18 engage in activities/food/behaviors that they weren't allowed to do under too strict a rule.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Yeah. My parents didn't educate me on healthy eating habits. They fed us terrible food and didn't tell us what was good for us.

My parents were drug addicts and alcoholics. When they got clean, they made sure that we weren't doing any drugs whatsoever. Yes. It is easier for the parents to teach the kids if they aren't bombarded with the terrible stuff. I never saw people doing drugs or drinking at all growing up, so it was easier to not do drugs or drink.

In Japan, they give water with your meal. Unless it is a chain (like McDonald's), you will automatically get a glass of water. Getting soda or juice isn't a thing. You have to specially request it if it is that important to you. I feel they are doing it right.

Am I missing something? Every restaurant I've been to, with the exception of fast food places, serves water by default. Just like Japan. I find it annoying because I hate drinking water and the extra glasses clutter up the table. Only difference is the waitstaff then ask if I want something else to drink.

Anywho, yes it's overreach. If the government wants to put in their 2 cents, let them fund infomercials and the like to educate. That's within their purview. Otherwise they can butt out.

I'm not saying they bring you water with your drink. They only bring water, nothing else. If you want a different kind of drink, you have to order it. They don't ask.

They don't bring water with your drink. You sit down, water is either already on the table, or is brought immediately. Later, you're asked if you want to order a drink.

So, yes, the only difference is that in the US you're asked if you want to order something other than water. Unless the Japanese are ignorant of other available drink choices, I don't think that's the relevant issue. More likely, the Japanese are accustomed to drinking water regularly, or the other drinks are much more expensive than they are in the US. Or, maybe their water generally tastes better. Plenty of areas in the US have water that tastes awful.

I literally said they don't bring water with your drink.

Many places (except fast food) don't ask for drinks. They expect you to drink water. They have sodas everywhere in vending machines there but you don't generally drink it with meals.

People have the unhealthy habit of chugging down beverages at meals without realizing how much they are taking in.

mantium999 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

I think it's a good decision. Obviously america has a weight problem. Some know I believe it's not due to "inactivity". I already posted studies showing that "exercise" doesn't produce weight loss. The issue is the food we eat.

Comments like "it's not the governments job to make parent decisions for the kids" if the parents can't take care of their kids properly someone has to step in. I have seen countless women who are struggling with their weight on MFP. One reason is because they end up buying junk food for the kids, and the mother over consumes it. WHat are these parents teaching their kids?

It never made sense to me when people have foods they have problems with "junk foods that cause them to over eat and binge" in the house. Their common response is, "I shouldn't need to punish my kids because I am trying to lose weight." So what's the objective, let your kids get over weight?

I went off tangent of my original post. As @guitarjerry said, marketing to kids isn't cool. We have ot keep in mind food companies are a business. If you had a business of selling something, such as cars. Wouldn't you wan tto sell as many cars as you can and get people interested in your product and keep on buying it?

It's no different for food companies, they have a product, they want to make profit. They have food scientists making these foods as close to addicting as possible. They're not stupid, give as much flavor/taste as possible that people like, and put it in smallest volume possible. What is this? High caloric density foods, they digest quickly, so who wants more? It tastes good too.. so we should all just keep on buying and buying and buying.

Just as you say exercise is not the reason people are obese. Food is also not the reason people are obese.

Personal decisions are. If a person is aware that something lacks nutrients and contains high calorie content and chooses to indulge anyway, that is not the fault of the inanimate food item. If a person does not know that the food is high in caloric content and over consumption could lead to weight gain and poor health, that is an education issue, again not the foods fault.

I don't disagree with you, i agree with you. In my case, my dad always bought me and my brother whatever we wanted. We would see him every weekend and spend the summer with him. He's not over weight, and neither is my mother. I remember sometimes eating ice cream for breakfast, and drinking pepsi's all week as our water source. I learned some bad habits that evolved around food. I also remember eating Taco Bell and Burger King constantly. I eventually got up to 400lbs. When i was at my heaviest, Taco Bell was my favorite food. My brother is younger, and he's getting up there in weight. I lost most of my weight, but sometimes it's still a struggle as it is for most of us here. I asked my dad, "why did you give us whatever we wanted?" He said, "So you can learn what's right and wrong on your own and make wise decisions." I have had the freedom since child hood, it didn't workout well.

Do you think it would be acceptable for companies to put some drug in our food such as heroine or methamphetamine. The answer should be obviously not. I don't see how this is any different than the things food companies do to our foods. Someone might reply with, "those are damaging to your health" are they in low dosages? The food companies do the same.

Why though is it the food companies ? What about a local mom and pop bakery are their foods loaded with ingredients that make you keep coming back? What are these specific items that the food companies are using?

It's all sugar one way or the other. sugar can also be defined as processed carbs as well.

So it's whoever processes the carbs fault? Or is it the grower that sold it to the processor's fault?

What is it that is added to these items by the food industry that prevents only some individuals from limiting their intake?

A better question would be is "what makes certain drugs illegal, and who's fault is it?" that should answer the question. Of course there is personal responsibility in all this, but there is also people who have some serious problems. MOST Americans are over weight, so most people have a problem.

The problem is too many people, cramming too many calories into their pie holes, combined with the average person's inability to take information, understand it, and apply it. The sugar and or the calories in soda, or any other food for that matter, are not the problem, nor is the corporate model. Thinking that isolating a single item (sugar), declaring it as evil and the root of people being fat, doesn't help anyone understand why they are fat, nor how to reverse their problem.

If this is all true (let's say it is, though I personally completely disagree about the corporate model being a-ok) and we care about the obesity problem and its consequences, what is the logical conclusion?

Maybe, it's to use policies and other tools so that the "average person" is less burdened by having to account for those single items - and their summation. Because you 're right, it's not just the soda, or the ice cream, or the 10 oz cheeseburger and fries. It's that people eat that stuff all the time.

On top of the food quality/quantity issue

ninerbuff wrote: »

tomatoey wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

No, but today's people know that being overweight/obese is a bad thing. If they KNOW that, then why aren't they able to avoid it?

What if learning about how to eat correctly was a class curriculum?

Here's my views on your first assumption. I'd like to point out that sometime in the past 20 years overweight stopped being synonymous with "unhealthy". Despite the overwhelming evidence that being overweight and even obese has ill effects on health, as the population grows even larger (and seemingly more sensitive to weight) the media presence overall tends to float towards the "body acceptance" movement. Each and every day I see more and more "curvy" "effyourbeautystandards" nonsense.

I'd implore you to explore the following:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BodyAcceptance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/
http://bigliberty.net/
etc.

People are now being encouraged to "embrace their curves", and that somehow weight doesn't have any correlation with health. You can be "healthy" at any size!

As far as education is concerned, i agree wholeheartedly, however, I have to wonder how that would even begin to be implemented. It seems as if schools who DO try and offer nutritional information (based on fact) are being bombarded with lawsuits by said people above for being a "nanny" or by companies/figures with an interest in business which have some sort of "all carbs are evil" "sugar is the problem" "no you're eating too much fat" "The type of fat you're eating is the real problem" and so forth.

http://healthyenough.net/calorie-counting/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

Even for suggesting material on calories in/calories out is being debated by these people.

At some point I have to ask, do these people just not CARE about their size? Do they just not CARE about their health? Why do they CHOOSE to do this even when presented with the truth?

I dont know. I think something better needs to be addressed here. How many people think feeding their children a lunch of cheetos, oreos, and a big gulp soda is perfectly fine? I'd say far too many. And it's them (and us) who pay the price.

If education is implemented, will that solve the obesity crisis? I don't know. I still think many would choose to follow the path of the glutton...

Well I would think people think that way because it's all they know. I mean take a phone away from the average teen today and what do you think would happen? IMO, they'd probably freak out so bad because they don't know HOW to live without their phone. Social media today takes up a lot of their time.
Take those same teens and teach them a program on how to interact with others at social gatherings, clubs, cheerleading, football, science club, going to the library, etc. BEFORE getting them a phone, and these kids probably would be fine finding a way to do without a phone.

I have a TV. I have a computer. They DON'T dominate my life because I've learned things to do outside of what they offer. I love the gym, I like walking, I spend time outside with my daughter.
There are lots and lots of adults who can't say the same because they either don't know, or weren't exposed positively to the benefits.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You love activity like it's your job. Oh wait, it is ;p

It's a multifactorial problem. Less people like activity, maybe. There is also less opportunity for activity because most people's jobs are sedentary, then they have to drive 30-60 minutes to get home because in lots of places walking is just impractical if not impossible. Then we have the conveniences of modern life. Going for a half hour walk for pleasure isn't going to fight all that on its own. Most people spend all day sitting (and eating) and that is because of many reasons relating to societal structures.

Whether it was my job or not, I'd still love it. I was a bodybuilder and active person BEFORE I even considered a career in it. Before this I sold vacuum cleaners door to door and was a manager for a popular electronics chain before it went bankrupt (not my fault).
And I disagree with you when it comes to physical activity. Many other industrialized countries who have commuting issues, are freezing cold outside, and job that require more sitting than physically moving around, don't deal with obesity because they don't eat so much. WE have that problem not due to society, but because of habitual behavior. Create a habit of not eating so much and guess what? There wouldn't be much of a weight problem.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I'm just saying there are many factors, overall reduction of NEAT activity is one. Habit is, too. But people will always take the shortcut given a choice. That's usually smart, but in this environment, not so much. One solution (the policy solution) is to tweak the environment, given we know that's how people are.

ninerbuff wrote: »

tomatoey wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

tomatoey wrote: »

mantium999 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Pu_239 wrote: »

I think it's a good decision. Obviously america has a weight problem. Some know I believe it's not due to "inactivity". I already posted studies showing that "exercise" doesn't produce weight loss. The issue is the food we eat.

Comments like "it's not the governments job to make parent decisions for the kids" if the parents can't take care of their kids properly someone has to step in. I have seen countless women who are struggling with their weight on MFP. One reason is because they end up buying junk food for the kids, and the mother over consumes it. WHat are these parents teaching their kids?

It never made sense to me when people have foods they have problems with "junk foods that cause them to over eat and binge" in the house. Their common response is, "I shouldn't need to punish my kids because I am trying to lose weight." So what's the objective, let your kids get over weight?

I went off tangent of my original post. As @guitarjerry said, marketing to kids isn't cool. We have ot keep in mind food companies are a business. If you had a business of selling something, such as cars. Wouldn't you wan tto sell as many cars as you can and get people interested in your product and keep on buying it?

It's no different for food companies, they have a product, they want to make profit. They have food scientists making these foods as close to addicting as possible. They're not stupid, give as much flavor/taste as possible that people like, and put it in smallest volume possible. What is this? High caloric density foods, they digest quickly, so who wants more? It tastes good too.. so we should all just keep on buying and buying and buying.

Just as you say exercise is not the reason people are obese. Food is also not the reason people are obese.

Personal decisions are. If a person is aware that something lacks nutrients and contains high calorie content and chooses to indulge anyway, that is not the fault of the inanimate food item. If a person does not know that the food is high in caloric content and over consumption could lead to weight gain and poor health, that is an education issue, again not the foods fault.

I don't disagree with you, i agree with you. In my case, my dad always bought me and my brother whatever we wanted. We would see him every weekend and spend the summer with him. He's not over weight, and neither is my mother. I remember sometimes eating ice cream for breakfast, and drinking pepsi's all week as our water source. I learned some bad habits that evolved around food. I also remember eating Taco Bell and Burger King constantly. I eventually got up to 400lbs. When i was at my heaviest, Taco Bell was my favorite food. My brother is younger, and he's getting up there in weight. I lost most of my weight, but sometimes it's still a struggle as it is for most of us here. I asked my dad, "why did you give us whatever we wanted?" He said, "So you can learn what's right and wrong on your own and make wise decisions." I have had the freedom since child hood, it didn't workout well.

Do you think it would be acceptable for companies to put some drug in our food such as heroine or methamphetamine. The answer should be obviously not. I don't see how this is any different than the things food companies do to our foods. Someone might reply with, "those are damaging to your health" are they in low dosages? The food companies do the same.

Why though is it the food companies ? What about a local mom and pop bakery are their foods loaded with ingredients that make you keep coming back? What are these specific items that the food companies are using?

It's all sugar one way or the other. sugar can also be defined as processed carbs as well.

So it's whoever processes the carbs fault? Or is it the grower that sold it to the processor's fault?

What is it that is added to these items by the food industry that prevents only some individuals from limiting their intake?

A better question would be is "what makes certain drugs illegal, and who's fault is it?" that should answer the question. Of course there is personal responsibility in all this, but there is also people who have some serious problems. MOST Americans are over weight, so most people have a problem.

The problem is too many people, cramming too many calories into their pie holes, combined with the average person's inability to take information, understand it, and apply it. The sugar and or the calories in soda, or any other food for that matter, are not the problem, nor is the corporate model. Thinking that isolating a single item (sugar), declaring it as evil and the root of people being fat, doesn't help anyone understand why they are fat, nor how to reverse their problem.

If this is all true (let's say it is, though I personally completely disagree about the corporate model being a-ok) and we care about the obesity problem and its consequences, what is the logical conclusion?

Maybe, it's to use policies and other tools so that the "average person" is less burdened by having to account for those single items - and their summation. Because you 're right, it's not just the soda, or the ice cream, or the 10 oz cheeseburger and fries. It's that people eat that stuff all the time.

People really don't care that much about obesity any more than they care about people starving. People are going to do what they need to do to ensure the survival of their immediate family/relatives and future generation. And maybe some very close friends.
IMO, government gets involved when government starts losing money.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

There's also an obligation to promote health and wellbeing, though, as well. I see it that way, at least.

If that were entirely true, then healthcare should be taken care of by the government instead of insurance companies. The US is one of the only countries who's government doesn't do this and we spend more money per capita than any other country without ranking in the top 35.
If people can't afford to go to the doctor for check ups, could it be possible that they ignore health markers that indicate a dire issue that needs to be addressed? I would say yes.
Maybe if the government considered spending less on policing the world and more on health and well being, we might not be in the dilema we are in now. Of course that's just my opinion on it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I agree with you on all this completely. (I'm not a US person, though, just to say.)