Grains and Carbs
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Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
wikipedia???
Have a read of this:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
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Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
You do know protein is highly insulinogenic, right?
So if you have any circulating insulin, you cannot burn any fat? It can only be stored? Hmmmm
I wonder what you are using for energy then, especially on a deficit!! Talk about depleting glycogen!.0 -
Despite what you may think, that is not correct. Holding calories and protein constant, fat loss isn't significantly different between low carb or higher carb diets, at least in ward trials, save for kekwick and one of the rabst studies and one other that I can't think of off the top of my head.
Where on earth did you come up with the logic for the 3rd paragraph?
Who said to hold calories constant? I'm saying that for many people who restrict carbs, they will burn more body fat which will result in a calorie deficit. For many people who are sensitive to carbs, eating a lot of carbs will cause them to store body fat, which will result in either more eating or decreased energy expenditure (calorie surplus).
How can you look at the efficacy if you do not hold calories constant?
Edited to try to fix messed up quotes.0 -
Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
wikipedia???
Have a read of this:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
Not a bad article. The first thing it confirms is that all of the items I posted from wiki are true (Increased Lipogenesis/Decreased Lipolysis)
A couple of other points (copying the myth/fact)
MYTH:A High Carbohydrate Diet Leads to Chronically High Insulin Levels
FACT:Insulin Is Only Elevated During the Time After a Meal In Healthy Individuals
Agree with this - however most of the people who are overweight or obese and trying to lose weight are not healthy individuals whose insulin levels follow the charts listed.
MYTH: Carbohydrate Drives Insulin, Which Drives Fat Storage
FACT: Your Body Can Synthesize and Store Fat Even When Insulin Is Low
Agree that if you eat 10000 calories of fat you will manage to store some - not very realist.
MYTH: Carbohydrate Is Singularly Responsible for Driving Insulin
FACT: Protein Is a Potent Stimulator of Insulin Too
Agree with this too. An effective low-carb diet requires moderate amounts of protein.0 -
Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
You do know protein is highly insulinogenic, right?
So if you have any circulating insulin, you cannot burn any fat? It can only be stored? Hmmmm
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Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
You do know protein is highly insulinogenic, right?
So if you have any circulating insulin, you cannot burn any fat? It can only be stored? Hmmmm
I didn't say 'any' or 'only' - for most people (particularly overweight people) if they keep their insulin down they will tend to burn fat rather than store it.0 -
Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
wikipedia???
Have a read of this:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
Not a bad article. The first thing it confirms is that all of the items I posted from wiki are true (Increased Lipogenesis/Decreased Lipolysis)
A couple of other points (copying the myth/fact)
MYTH:A High Carbohydrate Diet Leads to Chronically High Insulin Levels
FACT:Insulin Is Only Elevated During the Time After a Meal In Healthy Individuals
Agree with this - however most of the people who are overweight or obese and trying to lose weight are not healthy individuals whose insulin levels follow the charts listed.
MYTH: Carbohydrate Drives Insulin, Which Drives Fat Storage
FACT: Your Body Can Synthesize and Store Fat Even When Insulin Is Low
Agree that if you eat 10000 calories of fat you will manage to store some - not very realist.
MYTH: Carbohydrate Is Singularly Responsible for Driving Insulin
FACT: Protein Is a Potent Stimulator of Insulin Too
Agree with this too. An effective low-carb diet requires moderate amounts of protein.
It puts them into context and explains the impact, unlike your list. Your comments also were blanket statements and made no mention of only applying to people with insulin resistance. [Added: I just noticed you put a proviso on a later post that I missed as the messed up quotes were confusing]
Re the bolded...I have no idea how that is relevant to the point.
The commentary in the article explains:
"One of the biggest misconceptions regarding insulin is that it's needed for fat storage. It isn't. Your body has ways to store and retain fat even when insulin is low. For example, there is an enzyme in your fat cells called hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL). HSL helps break down fat. Insulin suppresses the activity of HSL, and thus suppresses the breakdown of fat. This has caused people to point fingers at carbohydrate for causing fat gain.
However, fat will also suppress HSL even when insulin levels are low. This means you will be unable to lose fat even when carbohydrate intake is low, if you are overeating on calories. If you ate no carbohydrate but 5,000 calories of fat, you would still be unable to lose fat even though insulin would not be elevated. This would be because the high fat intake would suppress HSL. This also means that, if you're on a low carbohydrate diet, you still need to eat less calories than you expend to lose weight.
Now, some people might say, "Just try and consume 5000 calories of olive oil and see how far you get." Well, 5000 calories of olive oil isn't very palatable so of course I won't get very far. I wouldn't get very far consuming 5,000 calories of pure table sugar either."
Also, you are missing the point of the last one you quoted - and if you go low carb, you actually increase your protein requirements.0 -
I eat a low cab, high fat diet. Eating fewer carbs won't make you lose weight, eating at a calorie deficit will. BUT! Eating fewer carbs and more fat/protein/veggies etc. will make you feel fuller for longer, and these foods (even fat) tend to be lower-calorie per oz. than the carbs you're going to eat, which makes it easier to maintain a calorie deficit.
???
Any food with high fat will be more calories then high carb food. Each gram of fat packs more then twice the amount of calories per gram as compared to carbs.
Jelly Beans are basically 100% sugar, aka carbs. An ounce of Jelly Beans is 100 calories. An ounce of almonds is 163 calories. One is fat free, one is over 50% fat.......0 -
I went from 100% paleo (no grains... and gaining weight) to actually eating grains in a calorie deficit and losing weight. I really want to believe in low carb because it worked so so well for my mom.... But I really really really really really really like carbsssssss0
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So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
No sir, I think it is you who is confused.
Your body is always burning fat. All the time. Day in, and day out. I am leaving aside anaerobic efforts here. When your body is in calorie deficit, it breaks down fat from your fat stores. And when you are in surplus, it stores fat in your fat stores. Your body is constantly burning a mixture of fat and glycogen.
Reducing calories and therefore creating a deficit causes you to burn more fat for energy.
I eat hundreds of grams of carbs a day, and I have lost 4 pounds this month...unintentionally, but still. Lots of cars, and sugar. I am not eating very clean. I am creating large deficits through exercise, and am having issues eating enough.
(As an aside, a sugar and a low carb troll in the same day!)0 -
So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
No sir, I think it is you who is confused.
Your body is always burning fat. All the time. Day in, and day out. I am leaving aside anaerobic efforts here. When your body is in calorie deficit, it breaks down fat from your fat stores. And when you are in surplus, it stores fat in your fat stores. Your body is constantly burning a mixture of fat and glycogen.
Reducing calories and therefore creating a deficit causes you to burn more fat for energy.
I eat hundreds of grams of carbs a day, and I have lost 4 pounds this month...unintentionally, but still. Lots of cars, and sugar. I am not eating very clean. I am creating large deficits through exercise, and am having issues eating enough.
(As an aside, a sugar and a low carb troll in the same day!)
I would say that when your body is in a state of increased lipid synthesis and esterification of fatty acids, it stores fat in your fat stores. When it is in a state of increased lipolysis it breaks down fat from your fat stores. Although these can be quite complex, insulin is a major factor and for many overweight people, reducing insulin via low-carb eating is effective. And the result (not the cause) of this is that they move into a calorie-deficit.
Without looking at your profile, something tells me that you are not 100+ pounds overweight. If you were and were losing 4 pounds a month by eating lots of carbs and sugar and exercising a lot I would find your example more compelling.
You seem to be saying that for people suffering from obesity they simply need to exercise more and eat less and they would be able to eat tons of carbs and sugar like you. This doesn't seem like good advice.
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So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
No sir, I think it is you who is confused.
Your body is always burning fat. All the time. Day in, and day out. I am leaving aside anaerobic efforts here. When your body is in calorie deficit, it breaks down fat from your fat stores. And when you are in surplus, it stores fat in your fat stores. Your body is constantly burning a mixture of fat and glycogen.
Reducing calories and therefore creating a deficit causes you to burn more fat for energy.
I eat hundreds of grams of carbs a day, and I have lost 4 pounds this month...unintentionally, but still. Lots of cars, and sugar. I am not eating very clean. I am creating large deficits through exercise, and am having issues eating enough.
(As an aside, a sugar and a low carb troll in the same day!)
I would say that when your body is in a state of increased lipid synthesis and esterification of fatty acids, it stores fat in your fat stores. When it is in a state of increased lipolysis it breaks down fat from your fat stores. Although these can be quite complex, insulin is a major factor and for many overweight people, reducing insulin via low-carb eating is effective. And the result (not the cause) of this is that they move into a calorie-deficit.
Without looking at your profile, something tells me that you are not 100+ pounds overweight. If you were and were losing 4 pounds a month by eating lots of carbs and sugar and exercising a lot I would find your example more compelling.
You seem to be saying that for people suffering from obesity they simply need to exercise more and eat less and they would be able to eat tons of carbs and sugar like you. This doesn't seem like good advice.
It is if you are throwing technical terms around for the sole purpose of confusing people. Wading through the bafflegab here, it seems that you are saying that low carb eating reduces insulin. The result of reducing insulin is that you go into calorie deficit?
So, if you are on a 5% carb, 30% protein, and 65% fat diet, and you were still eating 2000 cals above maintenance, you would still lose wait because you reduced your insulin?
That is nonsense. People have lost weight on a twinkie diet. Its CICO,
If you want to say that a low carb diet is easier to adhere to, and that people tend to have increased satiety, and tend to eat less calories overall (because adequate protein, increased satiety, etc), then I will not argue that point.
And no, I am not 100 pounds overweight (anymore). I lost 110 pounds over the course of a year (pre MFP), and i didn't do it with low-carb. I did it with the old fashioned approach. Eat less, move more. I have kept the weight of for over two years now.0 -
spirit7125 wrote: »Well I guess it's not really "low" carb, more like less than 30% of calories...thank you for replying
That is generally considered "reduced carb" rather than "low carb" and many people do it for various reasons (35% carb seems to be a number I see around here a lot). Either they are upping their protein for body re-composition, lowering their carbs to treat blood sugar issues like PCOS or diabetes, or they just feel full longer on fewer carbs (like it sounds you are).
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Spirit - congrats on your weight loss. I've been back to low carb for the past 7 weeks or so and lost 20+ pounds (219->197, at 6 feet). I agree that getting rid of bread and other starches and sugars will help.
I disagree with a lot of the 'pro-grain' and 'anti-low-carb' responses here. For many people, cutting out carbs is not simply a matter of being in a 'calorie-deficit' or even that fat 'makes you feel full'. I really think that by reducing grains and carbs, you better control your insulin and your metabolism starts to burn body fat and prevents additional fatty acids from being stored in your fat cells - replacing those carbs with fat accelerates this process.
So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
so much wrong….0 -
Spirit - congrats on your weight loss. I've been back to low carb for the past 7 weeks or so and lost 20+ pounds (219->197, at 6 feet). I agree that getting rid of bread and other starches and sugars will help.
I disagree with a lot of the 'pro-grain' and 'anti-low-carb' responses here. For many people, cutting out carbs is not simply a matter of being in a 'calorie-deficit' or even that fat 'makes you feel full'. I really think that by reducing grains and carbs, you better control your insulin and your metabolism starts to burn body fat and prevents additional fatty acids from being stored in your fat cells - replacing those carbs with fat accelerates this process.
So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
I love it when people think they know science.0 -
Spirit - congrats on your weight loss. I've been back to low carb for the past 7 weeks or so and lost 20+ pounds (219->197, at 6 feet). I agree that getting rid of bread and other starches and sugars will help.
I disagree with a lot of the 'pro-grain' and 'anti-low-carb' responses here. For many people, cutting out carbs is not simply a matter of being in a 'calorie-deficit' or even that fat 'makes you feel full'. I really think that by reducing grains and carbs, you better control your insulin and your metabolism starts to burn body fat and prevents additional fatty acids from being stored in your fat cells - replacing those carbs with fat accelerates this process.
So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
Mind-boggling in its wrongness.
And almost sounds like what someone else used to say. Is this a common myth/misconception perpetuated in low the fringe of carb circles? I know there's some serious junk science out there on these issues, I'd be interested to here if this is actually a thing or just some random ramblings from a few internet outliers.
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Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
You do know protein is highly insulinogenic, right?
So if you have any circulating insulin, you cannot burn any fat? It can only be stored? Hmmmm
I didn't say 'any' or 'only' - for most people (particularly overweight people) if they keep their insulin down they will tend to burn fat rather than store it.
Then how do you explain people that have followed low carb/keto diets long-term and they are still fat and some have gained at a faster rate that the typical SAD diet? I don't know maybe they are eating too much eh. Low carb gurus insulin hypothesis is easily defeated0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Spirit - congrats on your weight loss. I've been back to low carb for the past 7 weeks or so and lost 20+ pounds (219->197, at 6 feet). I agree that getting rid of bread and other starches and sugars will help.
I disagree with a lot of the 'pro-grain' and 'anti-low-carb' responses here. For many people, cutting out carbs is not simply a matter of being in a 'calorie-deficit' or even that fat 'makes you feel full'. I really think that by reducing grains and carbs, you better control your insulin and your metabolism starts to burn body fat and prevents additional fatty acids from being stored in your fat cells - replacing those carbs with fat accelerates this process.
So when people say 'you are losing body fat because you are in a calorie-deficit', they are confusing cause and effect. I would phrase it as 'you are in a calorie-deficit because your metabolism is burning body fat'. Reducing the carbs is causing your metabolism to burn body fat and as a result you are less hungry and have more energy (which results in the calorie-deficit).
Good luck.
Mind-boggling in its wrongness.
And almost sounds like what someone else used to say. Is this a common myth/misconception perpetuated in low the fringe of carb circles? I know there's some serious junk science out there on these issues, I'd be interested to here if this is actually a thing or just some random ramblings from a few internet outliers.
I guess he has not read the FAQ on the LC site????0 -
Insulin causes fat to be stored rather than used for energy. Starches raise your insulin. Here are a couple of quotes from wikipedia on the effects of insulin:
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
You do know protein is highly insulinogenic, right?
So if you have any circulating insulin, you cannot burn any fat? It can only be stored? Hmmmm
I didn't say 'any' or 'only' - for most people (particularly overweight people) if they keep their insulin down they will tend to burn fat rather than store it.
Yeah. The whole thing about low carb and fat burning? They burn the fat they eat. Not body fat.
You really need to read more about insulin and how energy balance works.
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