Organic...
Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The bees are not dying off. Actual, registered honeybee hive numbers are actually going up. I don't know if anyone is tracking wild bees off the top of my head, but honestly, I wouldn't care as honeybees are not native to North America, so seeing wild ones die off isn't an environmental disaster.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy. Copper sulfate is natural, and approved in organic farming. It does not breakdown readily. It actually tends to accumulated in soil and groundwater. It also has a much worse LD50 than a lot of synthetic pesticides.
It sounds like you are reading things into my post that weren't there. I never said all natural pesticides would break down faster, in fact, I never said anything about natural pesticides at all.
So what "things" that "naturally" break down are small organic farms using?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue.
There are any number of things depending on the problem. Neem oil and hydrogen peroxide are pretty common.
And those are not pesticides?0 -
It isn't top on my list but I do prefer to buy from local farmers markets or eat what we grow in our garden during the summer. In the winter, I buy what is cheapest and that typically isn't organic.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The bees are not dying off. Actual, registered honeybee hive numbers are actually going up. I don't know if anyone is tracking wild bees off the top of my head, but honestly, I wouldn't care as honeybees are not native to North America, so seeing wild ones die off isn't an environmental disaster.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy. Copper sulfate is natural, and approved in organic farming. It does not breakdown readily. It actually tends to accumulated in soil and groundwater. It also has a much worse LD50 than a lot of synthetic pesticides.
It sounds like you are reading things into my post that weren't there. I never said all natural pesticides would break down faster, in fact, I never said anything about natural pesticides at all.
So what "things" that "naturally" break down are small organic farms using?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue.
There are any number of things depending on the problem. Neem oil and hydrogen peroxide are pretty common.
And those are not pesticides?
Yes (insecticides). You asked me for examples of things that break down quickly that a local organic farmer might be likely to use.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?0 -
Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry. I eat as much organic as I can, mainly with meats, dairy, and fruits/vegetables. It's alarming to see an organic piece of fruit next to a conventional piece of fruit, the conventional looks like it is on steroids...why risk it if you don't know what you're putting into your body? I must say that I feel better when I eat organic, my skin has improved, and I feel energized rather than drained. So I will spend the extra money so that one day I at least won't have to say to myself, "I wish I would have done this or that."0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?
no, but you posted that as if widespread use of organochlorines was still the norm...
I was asking what specific pesticides used by "big ag" leave residues (and then I added the no adverse effect level because that would be how science would rate if what's left there as a residue even matters).
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So you were referring to natural pesticides that breakdown quickly, but I was wrong to read into it you claiming organic farmers use natural pesticides that breakdown quickly? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The bees are not dying off. Actual, registered honeybee hive numbers are actually going up. I don't know if anyone is tracking wild bees off the top of my head, but honestly, I wouldn't care as honeybees are not native to North America, so seeing wild ones die off isn't an environmental disaster.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy. Copper sulfate is natural, and approved in organic farming. It does not breakdown readily. It actually tends to accumulated in soil and groundwater. It also has a much worse LD50 than a lot of synthetic pesticides.
It sounds like you are reading things into my post that weren't there. I never said all natural pesticides would break down faster, in fact, I never said anything about natural pesticides at all.
So what "things" that "naturally" break down are small organic farms using?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue.
There are any number of things depending on the problem. Neem oil and hydrogen peroxide are pretty common.
And those are not pesticides?
Yes (insecticides). You asked me for examples of things that break down quickly that a local organic farmer might be likely to use.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?
no, but you posted that as if widespread use of organochlorines was still the norm...
Or you read it that way.
But he said she said is silly in a forum where what was said is visible.0 -
There's prevention, too, like netting to deter the cabbage butterfly.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?
no, but you posted that as if widespread use of organochlorines was still the norm...
Or you read it that way.
But he said she said is silly in a forum where what was said is visible.
ok...I'll pull it back for everyone (again). You said big ag uses indiscriminate pesticides that leave residues while organic farmers are likely to use natural pesticides that don't.
I ask you to provide examples of the pesticides since it was stated as fact.
You dodged every thing afterwards...
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Research Article
Dietary Exposure to Pesticide Residues from Commodities Alleged to Contain the Highest Contamination Levels
Carl K. Winter and Josh M. Katz
Department of Food Science and Technology, University of California, One Shields Avenue, Davis, CA 95616, USA
Received 29 November 2010; Accepted 16 March 2011
Academic Editor: Ian Munro
Copyright © 2011 Carl K. Winter and Josh M. Katz. This is an open access article distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.
Abstract
Probabilistic techniques were used to characterize dietary exposure of consumers to pesticides found in twelve commodities implicated as having the greatest potential for pesticide residue contamination by a United States-based environmental advocacy group. Estimates of exposures were derived for the ten most frequently detected pesticide residues on each of the twelve commodities based upon residue findings from the United States Department of Agriculture's Pesticide Data Program. All pesticide exposure estimates were well below established chronic reference doses (RfDs). Only one of the 120 exposure estimates exceeded 1% of the RfD (methamidophos on bell peppers at 2% of the RfD), and only seven exposure estimates (5.8 percent) exceeded 0.1% of the RfD. Three quarters of the pesticide/commodity combinations demonstrated exposure estimates below 0.01% of the RfD (corresponding to exposures one million times below chronic No Observable Adverse Effect Levels from animal toxicology studies), and 40.8% had exposure estimates below 0.001% of the RfD. It is concluded that (1) exposures to the most commonly detected pesticides on the twelve commodities pose negligible risks to consumers, (2) substitution of organic forms of the twelve commodities for conventional forms does not result in any appreciable reduction of consumer risks, and (3) the methodology used by the environmental advocacy group to rank commodities with respect to pesticide risks lacks scientific credibility.
Full paper: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2011/589674/0 -
I used to work on a certified usda organic farm. We used lady bugs for pest control. The only thing we ever sprayed on the plants was Fish and Seaweed fertilizer. A massive emphasis was on soil quality. We were always doing stuff to build up the soil: cover crops, bone meal, mulching, crop rotation, etc... Good soil grows strong plants which are more naturally resistant to pests and disease.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?
no, but you posted that as if widespread use of organochlorines was still the norm...
Or you read it that way.
But he said she said is silly in a forum where what was said is visible.
ok...I'll pull it back for everyone (again). You said big ag uses indiscriminate pesticides that leave residues while organic farmers are likely to use natural pesticides that don't.
I ask you to provide examples of the pesticides since it was stated as fact.
You dodged every thing afterwards...
I never said most of what you say I said, but if you want data on pesticide residue all you need do is a simple internet search.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC51100070 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
"big ag" (from a farmer's perspective) likes not using pesticides at all...pesticides mean money. This is where engineering crops that maintain nutrition and produce their own pesticides or are resistant to effective herbicides such as glyphosphate and drought and insects are huge.
Also, an example of a pesticide that commonly leaves residues in foods above an adverse effect level would be nice since you state that as truth.
Another reading things into my post that weren't there.
This was you, right?These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
It is. Do you see something in there about adverse effect?
no, but you posted that as if widespread use of organochlorines was still the norm...
Or you read it that way.
But he said she said is silly in a forum where what was said is visible.
ok...I'll pull it back for everyone (again). You said big ag uses indiscriminate pesticides that leave residues while organic farmers are likely to use natural pesticides that don't.
I ask you to provide examples of the pesticides since it was stated as fact.
You dodged every thing afterwards...
I never said most of what you say I said, but if you want data on pesticide residue all you need do is a simple internet search.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5110007
wow...again, what you posted previouslyThe difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.0 -
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So you were referring to natural pesticides that breakdown quickly, but I was wrong to read into it you claiming organic farmers use natural pesticides that breakdown quickly? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The bees are not dying off. Actual, registered honeybee hive numbers are actually going up. I don't know if anyone is tracking wild bees off the top of my head, but honestly, I wouldn't care as honeybees are not native to North America, so seeing wild ones die off isn't an environmental disaster.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy. Copper sulfate is natural, and approved in organic farming. It does not breakdown readily. It actually tends to accumulated in soil and groundwater. It also has a much worse LD50 than a lot of synthetic pesticides.
It sounds like you are reading things into my post that weren't there. I never said all natural pesticides would break down faster, in fact, I never said anything about natural pesticides at all.
So what "things" that "naturally" break down are small organic farms using?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue.
There are any number of things depending on the problem. Neem oil and hydrogen peroxide are pretty common.
And those are not pesticides?
Yes (insecticides). You asked me for examples of things that break down quickly that a local organic farmer might be likely to use.
The part I thought you were reading in that was never suggested is that my statement applied to ALL natural pesticides, because of your statement "There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy."
I said nothing about "natural" pesticides or ALL natural pesticides. My statement was simple, true and had no subtext.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »I think eating organic is extremely important. I buy it whenever I can because I'm not a huge fan of having herbicides and pesticides on my food. When they apply that stuff, there is a reason why they are wearing suits...it's because it's toxic.
There are people that say that you don't get that much nutrition benefit from it but that's very primitive thinking. There is so much more to food than just macros, calories, vitamins, and/or minerals. Every biological process and chemical reaction our bodies have to food and the possible toxins it carries are way too complex for anyone to fully comprehend. With that said, I do my best to fuel my body with the best available food. It's just a no brainer for me.
Very much agree with this. There are some foods you don't really have to worry about buying organic - avocados for instance, but others it's very important to eat organic due to the heavy pesticide spraying - grapes and strawberries, for example.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »I think eating organic is extremely important. I buy it whenever I can because I'm not a huge fan of having herbicides and pesticides on my food. When they apply that stuff, there is a reason why they are wearing suits...it's because it's toxic.
There are people that say that you don't get that much nutrition benefit from it but that's very primitive thinking. There is so much more to food than just macros, calories, vitamins, and/or minerals. Every biological process and chemical reaction our bodies have to food and the possible toxins it carries are way too complex for anyone to fully comprehend. With that said, I do my best to fuel my body with the best available food. It's just a no brainer for me.
Very much agree with this. There are some foods you don't really have to worry about buying organic - avocados for instance, but others it's very important to eat organic due to the heavy pesticide spraying - grapes and strawberries, for example.
In the paper I just posted that looked at pesticide residue levels of the "dirty dozen", the highest average concentration detected of the most commonly detected pesticides was 36,000 times less than the reference dose (chronic exposure level for acceptable risk of any harm) for strawberries (http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2011/589674/tab8/), and 4,110 times less than the reference dose for grapes (http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2011/589674/tab7/).
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hollydubs85 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
The bees are not dying off. Actual, registered honeybee hive numbers are actually going up. I don't know if anyone is tracking wild bees off the top of my head, but honestly, I wouldn't care as honeybees are not native to North America, so seeing wild ones die off isn't an environmental disaster.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »governatorkp wrote: »IMO looking for local farmers to buy your products is better, finding ones that don't use pesticides/use natural enemies.
Because as mentioned before, pesticides are indeed also found on organic-labelled brands.
As some others have mentioned too, I focus on buying the purest, least processed food possible. I buy grass-fed meat and antibiotic-free poultry.
To me the most important is to get your food in the most pure form available.
It's actually pretty hard to keep any type of profitable garden going without pesticides. Even the most environmentally conscience local organic farmers will usually use pesticides/herbicides of some type if they are in it for profit.
The difference is that small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue. Things that don't kill the honeybees that pollinate their crops. These must be applied more often, which is why big ag likes the harsher stuff that will kill indiscriminately and not break down. Not even before it reaches your table.
There is nothing about natural pesticides that means they will break down faster. That's a huge naturalistic fallacy. Copper sulfate is natural, and approved in organic farming. It does not breakdown readily. It actually tends to accumulated in soil and groundwater. It also has a much worse LD50 than a lot of synthetic pesticides.
It sounds like you are reading things into my post that weren't there. I never said all natural pesticides would break down faster, in fact, I never said anything about natural pesticides at all.
So what "things" that "naturally" break down are small organic farms using?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »small organic farmers are much more likely to use things that naturally break down quickly and leave no residue.
My guess is ladybugs. IPM plans are becoming more popular, and ladybugs are beasts, man. :bigsmile:
I keep telling the Hubster that we need ladybugs to protect our plants... He seems skeptical, not because he doesn't think it'll work but because I think he knows I just want ladybugs. Ha
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I know the organic gardens by us don't really use anything other than fingers to neutralize pests and weeds. a friend of mine worked at a nearby one0
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http://agriculturesociety.com/tag/monocropping/
It is important to educate on the differences in organic farming practices as opposed to conventional: mainly monocropping. Crops grown in this style need synthetic pesticides and fertilizers as poor soil quality leaves malnourished plants extremely vulnerable to pests and disease. Crop rotation allows the soil to rest and regenerate nutrients through cover crops. It is a more ecologically efficient system. Plants grown in the ideal soil don't need much more than weeding and water.0 -
http://agriculturesociety.com/tag/monocropping/
It is important to educate on the differences in organic farming practices as opposed to conventional: mainly monocropping. Crops grown in this style need synthetic pesticides and fertilizers as poor soil quality leaves malnourished plants extremely vulnerable to pests and disease. Crop rotation allows the soil to rest and regenerate nutrients through cover crops. It is a more ecologically efficient system. Plants grown in the ideal soil don't need much more than weeding and water.
What type of soil would prevent cabbage worms (moths)? I rotate, I compost, I test and nourish my soil. I still have to cover the brassica.0 -
Plants grown in the ideal soil don't need much more than weeding and water.
Tell that to the potato beetle. We've got great vegetable growing soil around here but our community plot is also overrun by mice, rabbits, transients, and the potato beetle. Natural selection takes no prisoners, and there's a vital struggle going on both sides. I take the beetle out on sight, but it's a long growing season and I'm not out there all day.
I deal with my community garden losses by calling them "donations".0 -
I strongly feel that the organic fair trade non GMO buy local movement is fueled by ignorance, bulls*&t propoganda and first world problems. It's a social construct meant to tell other people that you think you're better than them.0
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punkrockgoth wrote: »I strongly feel that the organic fair trade non GMO buy local movement is fueled by ignorance, bulls*&t propoganda and first world problems. It's a social construct meant to tell other people that you think you're better than them.
This sounds a bit paranoid. Do you really think anyone chooses or suggests organic eating to belittle you?0 -
krissydelrio wrote: »Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry. I eat as much organic as I can, mainly with meats, dairy, and fruits/vegetables. It's alarming to see an organic piece of fruit next to a conventional piece of fruit, the conventional looks like it is on steroids...why risk it if you don't know what you're putting into your body? I must say that I feel better when I eat organic, my skin has improved, and I feel energized rather than drained. So I will spend the extra money so that one day I at least won't have to say to myself, "I wish I would have done this or that."
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punkrockgoth wrote: »I strongly feel that the organic fair trade non GMO buy local movement is fueled by ignorance, bulls*&t propoganda and first world problems. It's a social construct meant to tell other people that you think you're better than them.
+10 -
http://agriculturesociety.com/tag/monocropping/
It is important to educate on the differences in organic farming practices as opposed to conventional: mainly monocropping. Crops grown in this style need synthetic pesticides and fertilizers as poor soil quality leaves malnourished plants extremely vulnerable to pests and disease. Crop rotation allows the soil to rest and regenerate nutrients through cover crops. It is a more ecologically efficient system. Plants grown in the ideal soil don't need much more than weeding and water.
This is common practice now in both organic and conventional farming. At least, that's what I've observed and experienced with the farmers I am in contact with.
ETA: I also agree with jgnatca above. There are more quarantined plant pests and diseases than you think.0 -
hollydubs85 wrote: »http://agriculturesociety.com/tag/monocropping/
It is important to educate on the differences in organic farming practices as opposed to conventional: mainly monocropping. Crops grown in this style need synthetic pesticides and fertilizers as poor soil quality leaves malnourished plants extremely vulnerable to pests and disease. Crop rotation allows the soil to rest and regenerate nutrients through cover crops. It is a more ecologically efficient system. Plants grown in the ideal soil don't need much more than weeding and water.
This is common practice now in both organic and conventional farming. At least, that's what I've observed and experienced with the farmers I am in contact with.
She speaks for the Texas panhandle and I for north Louisiana...when I say this. Corn and cotton are particularly hard on soils "monocropped".
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ITT: Appeal to nature fallacy.
To people claiming that grocery store organic tastes better/is more nutritional (I am keeping it separate from local crops, I think that is a totally different argument), studies have been done that say that little to no difference can be found. http://foodscience.missouri.edu/news/organic-milk.php http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/3/680.full and http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2012/09/little-evidence-of-health-benefits-from-organic-foods-study-finds.html
What happens most often is that people get tricked into thinking more expensive = better tasting. Look at wine, if you put a cheap wine into an expensive bottle it will be rated higher than that same wine in a cheaper looking bottle. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-not-so-smart-why-we-cant-tell-good-wine-from-bad/247240/
Organic is a marketing term to make you buy more expensive food for no practical reason. Much like the term "all natural" it serves no purpose for most people.0
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