the myth, starvation mode, and dont eat before bed.

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

Don't worry, I read it very carefully. And if you want experience, I know that I was in starvation mode for quite a while.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/175241-a-personal-view-on-exercise-cals-and-underfeeding

I experienced it. So...does that mean you believe in it now? Since I've given you a personal experience? I'm guessing not. The point being, we're talking about biology, anatomy, chemical/hormonal reactions and science. It's hardly unreasonable to be interested in direct evidence that shows that what you're claiming is backed up by science.

BTW, I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with eating at night. Though I would disagree with taking in the majority of your calories at night. I suppose IF (intermittent fasting) does work for some people, it is not sustainable for the vast majority.

probably the most incorrect post ive ever seen on this site, LOL

your heart seems to be in the right place, but THIS IS THE WORST ADVICE

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS POST PEOPLE!!

starvation mood DOES exist if you are eating less then 1200 cal for women or 1500 cal for men your body will store its body fat because it thinks theres a famine taking place. you need enough calories to function daily. get exercise instead of eating less way better for you!!!

breakfast IS important! fires up the metabolism and gives you the fuel you need to start your day. starving yourself until lunch will cause you to over indulge and possibly make poor food choices

DO NOT eat a big meal before bed if youre trying to lose weight. best time to be hungry is when your asleep. plus your bod will go burn fat if theres nothing in your stomach for it to burn

basically do the exact opposite of what this post says and you should be on the right track

However, your loss so far is almost certainly largely water weight, as with anyone starting new eating habits. It's normal and expected to lose large amounts of water weight in the first couple of weeks.

Starvation mode is very much dependent on the levels of fat stores, exact level of intake and exact energy expenditure. Most people with large amounts of fat stores are not in danger of entering starvation mode to any significant degree. So it doesn't really apply to you...at this point. When you get closer to a healthy body fat %, it will become much more relevant to you.

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

Don't worry, I read it very carefully. And if you want experience, I know that I was in starvation mode for quite a while.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/175241-a-personal-view-on-exercise-cals-and-underfeeding

I experienced it. So...does that mean you believe in it now? Since I've given you a personal experience? I'm guessing not. The point being, we're talking about biology, anatomy, chemical/hormonal reactions and science. It's hardly unreasonable to be interested in direct evidence that shows that what you're claiming is backed up by science.

BTW, I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with eating at night. Though I would disagree with taking in the majority of your calories at night. I suppose IF (intermittent fasting) does work for some people, it is not sustainable for the vast majority.

okay, I read your post. In the post you said, "intake of around 1000-1200 for about 5 years. My BMR is about 1500, and maintenance cals at sedentary are about 2000. So I should have been losing weight, right?"

How do you know that was you BMR, by a chart? I have used the bodybugg in the past, it's a device you wear that tells you how many calories you burn throughout the day, with a 90% accuracy. Those charts where dead wrong. They are based on body weight, height, activity level, age. A real BMR is based on muscle mass. It's very possible you're bmr calculations where wrong.

Another issue you talked about carb loading, you knew you where eating too much carbs. That can have been the issue why you couldn't reduce body fat any farther.

I do agree that if you do have a restrictive caloric diet, you will lose muscle mass. I never said "go on a low restrictive diet" I eat my caloric needs, but I do them in a cycle, as I mentioned already. I guess i was too vague when i posted it. I am curious what you did to combat your issue. You said you're losing weight now, so tell me how you did it. I am curious.

Using several different BMR calculations that all consider height, weight, age and activity level. The point is, even if my BMR or TDEE was off...say by even 20%... My intake was still far below that. I still should have been losing weight - if you don't believe in starvation mode. But I didn't.

And it wasn't that I couldn't reduce body fat - it's that I gained body fat and reduced lean mass. Classic famine response. Of course carbs contributed to it, but they still do not explain not losing weight overall at a deficit of about 1000 cals per day.

As for what I'm doing now, I just posted an update earlier about my progress. But essentially, I eat twice as much as I used to, decreased carbs slightly (still over 150 most days) and do a very moderate amount of exercise (and eat back those cals).

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/249476-victories-scale-and-otherwise

One question, to people who are in opposition, have you even tried what I said? I know you haven't cause i just posted it. I don't even advise to do it, with out proper education on the subject so you don't hurt yourself. If you know about how diet affects the biochemicals, and how to trigger GH with diet, and increase insulin at the proper times to prevent muscle mass loss. Then check it out. If you don't... then how can your even comment on a subject you know nothing about?

Haven't tried what? Starvation mode? Calorie cycling?

I think the problem is you're trying to argue against starvation mode by saying calorie cycling works, so starvation mode must be a myth. Two entirely separate issues, because starvation mode does not happen in A) obese individuals or after just a few days of low cal levels. So no, calorie cycling doesn't cause starvation mode (necessarily), but that doesn't mean starvation mode doesn't exist.

I think the big misunderstanding, is "what is starvation mode?" I do agree if you eat at low caloric levels for a long time you will find a new BMR. I am in complete agreement on that. Never said that wasn't the case. WHat i said state... is wrong is "HOW" starvation mode is created.

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding that, that people are thinking "he said, if you eat low calories you won't lose muscle mass" that is dead wrong, you will lose muscle mass.

The theory is, "if you don't eat enough calories, you will train your body to think there is no food so it will turn everything in to fat" THat is NOT how it works. THAT is wrong. That doesn't exist. It's a complete lie.

How it works, if you decrease calories too low, you won't have enough calories to support the muscle mass, so it will go away. Your body will eat it for energy. Now you have less muscle mass. This will obviously give you a lower BMR. I am not challenging that lowering calories will cause you to lose muscle mass. I am challenging the term "starvation mode."

I won't argue at all that the term is overused, misunderstood and misapplied by many people. That's certainly true. But when it comes down to it, frankly I'd rather have people be overly cautious on the subject rather than under. Particularly because a lot of people (especially women) tend to think weight loss = extreme calorie restriction, so starvation mode (or whatever you want to call it) is actually pretty prevalent around here (or any dieting community), especially among beginners. That's why there's so much yo-yo dieting, and it doesn't work. My aim is always to help people find habits that are sustainable. Large deficits simply aren't sustainable.

I read your thing on starvation mode, I don't disagree with you, i agree with you. The only part i do disagree with, is that people who are at higher bf% are at less risk for starvation mode. You state that it's due to the higher fat stores. Fat stores don't increase, they just get bigger. I don't know how it would make a difference if a person is at 12% bodyfat, or 30% bodyfat. Actually I think the opposite is true. People with higher % of bodyfat are more prone to starvation mode theory.

Now we're getting in to exercise. A person who is very over weight, can have difficulty just walking. It takes a lot of energy for them to move their mass. It's kind of like a resistance exercise like lifting weights. They get very tired very quickly. This will trigger the muscle fiber types of 2A or 2B which will increase lactic acid which would atrophy the muscle. If someone is out of breath, they're triggering lactic acid, which destroy muscle. Lactic acid is created because the person can't oxidize the acid produced by the muscle, so it starts to accumulate in the body causing them to get out of breath, their muscles are using too much oxygen trying to cope with the lactic acid. Lactic acid destroys muscle. And of course lower levels of muscle creates lower BMR.

RMR and muscle mass do decrease in obese individuals, when at a caloric deficit. But the ratio of fat vs lean mass lost is in their favor. They will always lose more fat than muscle, simply because more fat is available. They are still effected by lean mass loss, but not to the same extent. The higher the body fat %, the more stored energy there is. The more stored energy, the better the body is able to compensate for a deficit by accessing those fat stores.

Some good info on this aspect:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/153704-myth-or-fact-simple-math-3500-calories-one-pound-eat
(the text is adapted from an article by Tom Venuto)