Carbohydrate Addiction
Replies
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
Did you read my post and the source listed? unbiased, independent source? biased sources skew results to find what they want to see.
She (the author of that paper) would not be the first to cook their findings to suit their pet theory. One of the big proponents of the GI theory does this with his studies all the time, and he's the one whose work makes the news.
Other studies on GI/GL, done on mixed meals and designed more around the way people normally eat, don't support his findings.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I think you're misunderstanding what AlabasterVerve is suggesting. The theory is that IR impacts cravings, and by reducing carbs, the cravings are reduced, allowing the person to be successful with their weight loss. As we know, weight loss improves IR, meaning that once someone is a healthy weight and no longer dealing with the IR, they find themselves able to moderate foods that previously they found themselves overeating.
I don't know how much scientific support there is for this, but it's an interesting idea, and could help explain why moderation is more difficult for some people. @AlabasterVerve, did you read this somewhere, or is this just you positing this idea?
No, it's not new. The earliest reference to it I've found so far is from 1993 (I posted this earlier):
"It is proposed that chronic hyperinsulinemia is largely responsible for hunger, cravings and weight gain observed in many obese. This form of obesity can be treated by decreasing frequency of daily intake of carbohydrates to one well-balance meal each day and allowing for additional meals that are low in fat, low carbohydrates and high fiber. Animal experimentation and epidemiological evidence support the role of chronic hyperinsulinemia as a major factor in obesity and accounts for the frequent failures of diet and behavioral modification programs. Chronic hyperinsulinemia upsets metabolic balances and favors anabolic metabolism; fosters carbohydrate cravings; promotes insulin resistance which further promotes anabolic metabolism; and insulin resistance in turn exacerbates chronic hyperinsulinemia. This vicious cycle maintains excess weight and defeats diet and behavioral modification attempts to treat obesity. An eating program focused on reduction of chronic hyperinsulinemia coupled with appropriate exercise and behavior modification can successfully and permanently bring down cravings, hunger and body weight." --Hyperinsulinemic obesity and carbohydrate addiction: the missing link is the carbohydrate frequency factor
ETA: I really have no idea how mainstream any of these theories are since most everything I read on the subject comes through those who favor low carb.
Thanks for sharing, I had forgotten I'd asked you about it. I'm not sure how much I buy into the impacts of insulin or some of the claims how many people suffer from IR, but it's an interesting idea. I know people who tend to overeat sugar containing foods (hyperpalatable fat/sugar combos) and have gone low carb in the past and lost weight, so I'm going to ask them about whether they noticed a difference. Anecdotal, obviously, but the nice thing about science is anecdotes and general observations often lead to new discoveries and information.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I think you're misunderstanding what AlabasterVerve is suggesting. The theory is that IR impacts cravings, and by reducing carbs, the cravings are reduced, allowing the person to be successful with their weight loss. As we know, weight loss improves IR, meaning that once someone is a healthy weight and no longer dealing with the IR, they find themselves able to moderate foods that previously they found themselves overeating.
I don't know how much scientific support there is for this, but it's an interesting idea, and could help explain why moderation is more difficult for some people. @AlabasterVerve, did you read this somewhere, or is this just you positing this idea?
No, it's not new. The earliest reference to it I've found so far is from 1993 (I posted this earlier):
"It is proposed that chronic hyperinsulinemia is largely responsible for hunger, cravings and weight gain observed in many obese. This form of obesity can be treated by decreasing frequency of daily intake of carbohydrates to one well-balance meal each day and allowing for additional meals that are low in fat, low carbohydrates and high fiber. Animal experimentation and epidemiological evidence support the role of chronic hyperinsulinemia as a major factor in obesity and accounts for the frequent failures of diet and behavioral modification programs. Chronic hyperinsulinemia upsets metabolic balances and favors anabolic metabolism; fosters carbohydrate cravings; promotes insulin resistance which further promotes anabolic metabolism; and insulin resistance in turn exacerbates chronic hyperinsulinemia. This vicious cycle maintains excess weight and defeats diet and behavioral modification attempts to treat obesity. An eating program focused on reduction of chronic hyperinsulinemia coupled with appropriate exercise and behavior modification can successfully and permanently bring down cravings, hunger and body weight." --Hyperinsulinemic obesity and carbohydrate addiction: the missing link is the carbohydrate frequency factor
ETA: I really have no idea how mainstream any of these theories are since most everything I read on the subject comes through those who favor low carb.
Thanks for sharing, I had forgotten I'd asked you about it. I'm not sure how much I buy into the impacts of insulin or some of the claims how many people suffer from IR, but it's an interesting idea. I know people who tend to overeat sugar containing foods (hyperpalatable fat/sugar combos) and have gone low carb in the past and lost weight, so I'm going to ask them about whether they noticed a difference. Anecdotal, obviously, but the nice thing about science is anecdotes and general observations often lead to new discoveries and information.
I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
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I think for me....it is more that my favorite, habit forming, comforting, stress relieving, tasty foods....just so happen to be labeled a carb. But food is my addiction. This is your first post.... you are in a good place. A lot of support here. Grab yourself a few friends that are faithfully logging and form a new habit..... making better food choices. good luck....DON'T GIVE UP!0
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
I am glad you found a good way of eating but LC doesnt prevent those things in bold. Obesity and genetics will have a much greater impact on all of them.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
I think you might be on to something, as addiction is a bit more accepted compared to "invisible" disorders in mental health. Mental health has a stigma, and I think the cases in which the disorder is not severe to the point of being debilitating or readily noticeable is even less accepted - the person is just quirky, or having a tough time, or (insert reason here). Trying to convince someone, even medical professionals, that there is something going on can be difficult, so people may want it to be something else so that someone will take notice.0 -
Yes, and I have a terrible family history with all three, cancer in particular. And one thing that stood out for me (when I was most vulnerable) was watching a panel of cancer specialists and researchers talk and when the moderator of the discussion asked what people should be concerned about every single one of them, some reluctantly, said they'd be the most concerned with carbs. That got the low carb ball rolling for me. Finding out that fat does not cause heart disease, vegetables don't prevent cancer and that low carb diets improve a multitude of health markers in RCT studies all created the perfect storm so to speak and I adopted a low carb diet.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
I am glad you found a good way of eating but LC doesnt prevent those things in bold. Obesity and genetics will have a much greater impact on all of them.
The reason why I've stuck with low carb three years later is the tangible, immediate health benefits I get. I'm crossing my fingers on the cancer, heart disease and diabetes bit.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
There don't even have to be mental health issues at play, per se.
I was thinking of this earlier. I think one of the struggles some of us go through on our way to finding the ultimate solution to an ongoing weight problem is one of our own self-identity. How we think of ourselves and our relationship with food within that context is a big stumbling block for some people.
A lot of times, what some people (yes, even me) call excuses, are really people trying to find a way to cling to that same self-identity but to try to make progress towards what they think they should be doing. It's a tough row to hoe, because sometimes, that self-identity revolves around being fat -- and what you think you should do is not be fat! What a conundrum. I think this is why a lot of diets fail.
Ultimately, it's an endless game of fooling yourself, but it's a viscous cycle to be caught in. I've been there, so I speak from personal experience.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »
Yes, and I have a terrible family history with all three, cancer in particular. And one thing that stood out for me (when I was most vulnerable) was watching a panel of cancer specialists and researchers talk and when the moderator of the discussion asked what people should be concerned about every single one of them, some reluctantly, said they'd be the most concerned with carbs. That got the low carb ball rolling for me. Finding out that fat does not cause heart disease, vegetables don't prevent cancer and that low carb diets improve a multitude of health markers in RCT studies all created the perfect storm so to speak and I adopted a low carb diet.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
I am glad you found a good way of eating but LC doesnt prevent those things in bold. Obesity and genetics will have a much greater impact on all of them.
The reason why I've stuck with low carb three years later is the tangible, immediate health benefits I get. I'm crossing my fingers on the cancer, heart disease and diabetes bit.
I completely reverse my heart disease eating carbs.0 -
Is Carbohydrate Addiction real? During my first few days of dieting, I've been eating more protein, less sugar and less carbs. I feel fires and lethargic. Is this normal? Is my body craving more carbs? Is these an adjustment period?
People can be addicted to Alcohol so why not carbs0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »
Yes, and I have a terrible family history with all three, cancer in particular. And one thing that stood out for me (when I was most vulnerable) was watching a panel of cancer specialists and researchers talk and when the moderator of the discussion asked what people should be concerned about every single one of them, some reluctantly, said they'd be the most concerned with carbs. That got the low carb ball rolling for me. Finding out that fat does not cause heart disease, vegetables don't prevent cancer and that low carb diets improve a multitude of health markers in RCT studies all created the perfect storm so to speak and I adopted a low carb diet.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
I am glad you found a good way of eating but LC doesnt prevent those things in bold. Obesity and genetics will have a much greater impact on all of them.
The reason why I've stuck with low carb three years later is the tangible, immediate health benefits I get. I'm crossing my fingers on the cancer, heart disease and diabetes bit.
I completely reverse my heart disease eating carbs.
That is good to hear considering I eat carbs as well!0 -
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Is Carbohydrate Addiction real? During my first few days of dieting, I've been eating more protein, less sugar and less carbs. I feel fires and lethargic. Is this normal? Is my body craving more carbs? Is these an adjustment period?
People can be addicted to Alcohol so why not carbs
Any method of self-medication can be addictive.
Addiction as Self-Medication
Brain patterns formed by trauma sometimes need fixing—at any price
...let’s look at self-medication as the essence of addiction.
The self-medication model seems to be the kindest of the three. It has the advantage of the disease model, in absolving the addict of excessive blame, but it has the additional advantage of avoiding the stigma of “disease” and all that goes with it. In fact, it gives control (agency) back to the addict, who is, after all, acting as his or her own physician. Whereas the disease model places agency in the hands of others and casts the addict as a passive victim. Furthermore, the self-medication model just might be the most accurate of the three.
The idea is simple: trauma is the root cause. Trauma includes abuse, neglect, medical emergencies, and other familiar categories, but it also includes emotional abuse, and above all loss. Loss of a parent during childhood or adolescence can take many forms, including divorce, being sent away from home (in my case) or the shutting down of one or both parents due to depression or other psychiatric problems. Trauma is often followed by post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), which includes partial memory loss, intrusive thoughts, anxiety and panic attacks, avoidance of particular places, people, or contexts, emotional numbing or a sense of deadness, and overwhelming feelings of guilt or shame. But if that’s not bad enough, PTSD is about 80% comorbid with other psychiatric conditions—depression and anxiety disorders being chief among them.
...So how does self-medication work? There must be something about PTSD, depression, and anxiety that gets soothed by drugs, booze, binge-eating, and other addictive hobbies. Again, it’s not complicated. PTSD, depression, and anxiety disorders all hinge on an overactive amygdala—one that is not controlled or “re-oriented” by more sophisticated (and realistic) appraisals coming from the prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate cortex (ACC). That traumatized amygdala keeps signalling the likelihood of harm, threat, rejection, or disapproval, even when there is nothing in the environment of immediate concern. In fact, this gyrating amygdala lassos the prefrontal cortex, foisting its interpretation on the orbitofrontal cortex (and ventral ACC) rather than the other way around (which we might loosely call emotion regulation). The whole brain is dominated by limbic imperialism—making it a less-than-optimal neighbourhood in which to reside.
At the very least, drugs, booze, gambling and so forth take you out of yourself. They focus your attention elsewhere. They may rev up your excitement and anticipation of reward (in the case of speed, coke, or gambling) or they may quell anxiety directly by lowering amygdala activation (in the case of downers, opiates, booze, and maybe food). The mechanisms by which this happens are various and complex. But addicts and ex-addicts (like me) know what it feels like. If we find something that relieves the gnawing sense of wrongness, we take it, we do it, and then we do it again.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
I think you might be on to something, as addiction is a bit more accepted compared to "invisible" disorders in mental health. Mental health has a stigma, and I think the cases in which the disorder is not severe to the point of being debilitating or readily noticeable is even less accepted - the person is just quirky, or having a tough time, or (insert reason here). Trying to convince someone, even medical professionals, that there is something going on can be difficult, so people may want it to be something else so that someone will take notice.
Right. My advice to people who believe they are addicted to food is to go talk to a professional. I'm certainly not going to convince them that they're not addicted, but I think, in most cases, a therapist is going to help a whole lot more than total deprivation.PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
There don't even have to be mental health issues at play, per se.
I was thinking of this earlier. I think one of the struggles some of us go through on our way to finding the ultimate solution to an ongoing weight problem is one of our own self-identity. How we think of ourselves and our relationship with food within that context is a big stumbling block for some people.
A lot of times, what some people (yes, even me) call excuses, are really people trying to find a way to cling to that same self-identity but to try to make progress towards what they think they should be doing. It's a tough row to hoe, because sometimes, that self-identity revolves around being fat -- and what you think you should do is not be fat! What a conundrum. I think this is why a lot of diets fail.
Ultimately, it's an endless game of fooling yourself, but it's a viscous cycle to be caught in. I've been there, so I speak from personal experience.
You're right - not everyone who claims to be addicted to food is going to necessarily have some formal mental health issue; I'm more mulling over if there's a correlation at all.
I definitely agree with the self-identity part. I'm [not so secretly] terrified of getting to the point where I may view my wedding photos as my "fat" pictures. For a lot of us, there's always going to be that part of all of this. I think the part that is important is owning it.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »
Yes, and I have a terrible family history with all three, cancer in particular. And one thing that stood out for me (when I was most vulnerable) was watching a panel of cancer specialists and researchers talk and when the moderator of the discussion asked what people should be concerned about every single one of them, some reluctantly, said they'd be the most concerned with carbs. That got the low carb ball rolling for me. Finding out that fat does not cause heart disease, vegetables don't prevent cancer and that low carb diets improve a multitude of health markers in RCT studies all created the perfect storm so to speak and I adopted a low carb diet.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I started eating a low carb diet to reduce my risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer (not as a weight loss strategy) so the normalized appetite came as a surprise to me. It was such a profound relief to feel normal again I'll happily eat a low carb diet for the rest of my life. But I think it helps that eating low carb is not all that different than what I grew up with so it feels comfortable and familiar to me.
But that it worked so well and so quickly definitely peaked my interest into what was going on and how it worked. I assumed it was just the carbs/sugar causing an increase in appetite, or I thought perhaps the ketone production was suppressing appetite but the IR angle came up more than once here on the forums and after reading up on it that seems to explain my experience as well as anything else. I'm not married to any one theory but the IR aspect seems promising and there is some support in the mainstream literature for it. Whatever it is, I'm very much interested in the subject and I'm happy to see research time and money being devoted to it. I think low carb, for some people like myself, is working on a level beyond creating the necessary calorie deficit.
Necessary MFP Disclaimer: I don't prescribe low carb for anyone let alone everyone, not even for someone with metabolic issues that might very well benefit from a low carb diet. As PeachyCarol pointed out above there's psychological components that need to be considered and sometimes addressed. And I know for myself there was behavioral changes I needed to make; low carb was not a cure all.
I am glad you found a good way of eating but LC doesnt prevent those things in bold. Obesity and genetics will have a much greater impact on all of them.
The reason why I've stuck with low carb three years later is the tangible, immediate health benefits I get. I'm crossing my fingers on the cancer, heart disease and diabetes bit.
If you maintain a healthy weight/have good body composition, then you should be good on the whole heart disease and diabetes front. The more i hear about cancer the more i hear its being discovered its more linked to genetics than thought before. Ita why i tend to go to the doctors frequently.
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Is Carbohydrate Addiction real? During my first few days of dieting, I've been eating more protein, less sugar and less carbs. I feel fires and lethargic. Is this normal? Is my body craving more carbs? Is these an adjustment period?
Stop. Why are doing this?
https://youtu.be/zHKxLTH_R5w
https://youtu.be/DyRMrCysSh0
https://youtu.be/a8cji0edYAE 0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
No, I don't think that the hypothesis is without merit. A lot of obese people likely have IR.
However, I disagree that it's necessary to low-carb to diet down to desirable weight to reverse it.
I'll wait for the n=1 that I know of who disproves the necessity of doing so to post her experience. I think I saw her avi while the page scrolled down, so I think she already DID reply
It's certainly an option for someone to choose to low carb, and some people might have more issue with craving, but... the psychological component to the whole craving cycle is being given very little attention in this thread, and I believe it deserves more, because it's a powerful component to our attachment to and association with certain foods.
Agreed.
I get that mental health has a giant stigma around it (I'm in the US, so that's what I'm talking to at this point; it may be different elsewhere, but I don't always get that impression), but I think @PeachyCarol is making an excellent point about the psychological component being ignored. Compulsion is extremely powerful. Is it addiction? Not as such, but that doesn't mean it should get ignored.
I almost wonder if people want this to be an addiction so that they "can't help it" over acknowledging they might need some therapy to help so they don't have to go down the mental health stigma road.
I don't know - the idea of addiction we are used to, the worn-down hobos on the street corners, is not exactly the same, but still, lots of similarities... It has to be different because food is legal, cheap and easily available, whereas drugs and alcohol are regulated, and food is something we have to deal with because we need it, while drugs and alcohol is unnecessary. The thought of some hyperpalatable foods makes me excited in a way I find disturbing, I tremble all over, I can't get the idea out of my head until I've had some, and "some" is a lot more than I need, calorie wise, and more than I really want, rationally. It's not just that I like it too much. I like the taste, obviously, but I hate not being in control. I would choose candy, chips and chocolate over breakfast, lunch and dinner, and I was undernourished, sick and fat.
Maybe it's more of a compulsion than an addiction, but the two have a lot in common and are not easily separated, so the distinction is useless for any practical purpose.
I have taken some of the control back by treating my problem as an addiction. I haven't gotten treatment in any way, but I modify my environment as much as I can, and work with my mind and behavior modification to form better habits. To make life easier for myself, I avoid temptations. I don't bring hyperpalatable food into my house. I meal plan and make shopping list accordingly. I go guerrilla grocery shopping. I aim for a varied and balanced diet, focusing on nutrient rich, tasty food I like, that I can eat to satiety and feel satisfied and not ashamed after eating.
Using my food diary and learning about how the brain and body works in our current food environment has helped me a lot. I used to binge almost every day, now I have mini-binges every two weeks. My relationship with food is not perfect, but I feel much better and safer around food now, and I have gone from slightly obese to mid-normal BMI, and have a lot more energy.0
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