Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
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I think the problem is when nobody is arguing against CICO, but saying they need information or want to know about other things and people bombard them with, "This is what I did, so this is what you need to do! CICO! CICO! CICO!"MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Generally knowing that the more food you eat the more you will weigh is not the same as knowing that calories in calories out works for a certainty, in 100% of people. More food does not always equal more calories.
What I've seen most people asking is why they're not losing weight. I wouldn't presume to tell them what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, after work snack, before picking up the kid, and what each meal should contain. That would be presumptuous and condescending, IMO. Heck, not everyone that is working on losing weight and not seeing results is necessarily hungry, so we can't just dive right into tips on how to feel sated, either, for example.
There's only one answer to why folks aren't losing weight - not in a long term caloric deficit. As you reference people being adults, if they have other questions or points of confusion, it's their responsibility to ask or perform a search. It's a bit ridiculous to expect the forum participants to be mind readers...
You've seen it. People say they're trying to eat a healthier diet - which is like some kind of unpardonable sin to some - and they start in with their "No! My way! My way! My way!" (I'm not even exaggerating there. I didn't make that up, lol.)
There's also the "We did it this way and lost weight, so don't disagree with us!" and "If you don't diet our way, you will fail!" stuff.
It's just a little much.
In the most recent one I can think of, the OP never even returned to explain why she was interested in a certain way of eating. It's one thing if it's just a legitimate preference or they've got some sort of medical sensitivity. Otherwise, personally I'd want a bunch of people to tell me if a certain plan i had in mind may be needlessly complicated
For instance, I would think an interest in veganism would have to do with ethical treatment of animals, not because "OMG this girl is vegan and so thin so I'd like to do that, give me info!!" To me that's an excellent situation to at least verify that the person understands that CICO works and no magic is necessary. If they explain that they really just want to go this route, only at that point would I consider further CICO and logging "education" to be a bit much0 -
hi. i've lost over 100 lbs and i joined MFP just a little over a year ago and so far, for me it was accurate. i log absolutely everything i eat (down to spices) and eat within 1200-1600 calories every day. if i do some exercise, i don't log it here as MFP looks to me like they're overestimating calories burned displayed on the app.
re: nutritional facts, some labels ARE inaccurate. Nutella for example. it says a serving is 2 table spoons = 200 calories. it also displays on the side it says 37g. on paper, yes 2 tbps = 30ml. 37ml is just a little over 2 tbps. when i weighed it one day i found out that a table spoon of Nutella is already around 28g. 2tbps is over 50g. almost twice the calories as advertised in the label. weigh and log everything to the gram. most food on the database breaks the food down to the gram so that will greatly help you overtime.0 -
Agreed. Mentioning it is one thing. Demanding that everyone diet the way you want everyone to diet - that's another.
I think the problem is when nobody is arguing against CICO, but saying they need information or want to know about other things and people bombard them with, "This is what I did, so this is what you need to do! CICO! CICO! CICO!"MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Generally knowing that the more food you eat the more you will weigh is not the same as knowing that calories in calories out works for a certainty, in 100% of people. More food does not always equal more calories.
What I've seen most people asking is why they're not losing weight. I wouldn't presume to tell them what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, after work snack, before picking up the kid, and what each meal should contain. That would be presumptuous and condescending, IMO. Heck, not everyone that is working on losing weight and not seeing results is necessarily hungry, so we can't just dive right into tips on how to feel sated, either, for example.
There's only one answer to why folks aren't losing weight - not in a long term caloric deficit. As you reference people being adults, if they have other questions or points of confusion, it's their responsibility to ask or perform a search. It's a bit ridiculous to expect the forum participants to be mind readers...
You've seen it. People say they're trying to eat a healthier diet - which is like some kind of unpardonable sin to some - and they start in with their "No! My way! My way! My way!" (I'm not even exaggerating there. I didn't make that up, lol.)
There's also the "We did it this way and lost weight, so don't disagree with us!" and "If you don't diet our way, you will fail!" stuff.
It's just a little much.
In the most recent one I can think of, the OP never even returned to explain why she was interested in a certain way of eating. It's one thing if it's just a legitimate preference or they've got some sort of medical sensitivity. Otherwise, personally I'd want a bunch of people to tell me if a certain plan i had in mind may be needlessly complicated
For instance, I would think an interest in veganism would have to do with ethical treatment of animals, not because "OMG this girl is vegan and so thin so I'd like to do that, give me info!!" To me that's an excellent situation to at least verify that the person understands that CICO works and no magic is necessary. If they explain that they really just want to go this route, only at that point would I consider further CICO and logging "education" to be a bit much
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I wanna say something, the whole weighing food , I thought it was silly, I didn't do it back then when I had 25 kgs ( 43 lbs? to lose ) I think I would of gone faster if I did, I don't have a real binge problem BUT some foods I usually can't stop from eating when I've had enough, like super salty food, and I try not to eat it cos kidney stones and stuff,BUT now that I weight my food ( it's only been about 7 days? ) I don't have this problem anymore!!
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OP - you seem to only be responding to those that support your preconceived notions, and that's your prerogative - but the people you're choosing to ignore are some of the most successful on this site.
You can cite inaccuracies till the cows come home and while you're waiting for the nirvana of perfection, the rest of us will be meeting / maintaining our goals. I sincerely hope you meet yours as well, but it's going to take a remarkable attitude adjustment.
Good luck, you're gonna need it.0 -
It may suck but CICO is the epitome of success. Whether it's Vegan, HFLC, HCLF, Paleo. Some people do not understand that no matter how healthy you are eating, if you are eating too much you will gain weight. Even if the threshold is lower for some people due to health issues, the concept is the same.0
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123user456 wrote: »123user456 wrote: »The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR
I don't understand why some folks stick around if the forums suck so much and are just filled with pushy, sarcastic, condescending meanies ...
I love what I learn here. After 2 kids and 10 years of trying to lose the weight, I've lost 32 pounds using MFP. I can honestly say I would not have been this successful without the forums.
Not sure what you're saying, or who that is pointed at ...care to clarify?
Not pointed at anyone although you are one of many here with great advice. It just seems like a lot of people are complaining about how useless and obnoxious the forums are. I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it. If the forums don't help, don't use them ... But maybe I'm misinterpreting the message.
sorry I think I got a bit touchy there
I agree there's a lot of unneccessary sniping and attempted one-upmanship at present, hopefully it will die down
Thanks, but no apologies are necessary. I didn't think you were touchy, and there's no harm in asking for clarification.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »It may suck but CICO is the epitome of success. Whether it's Vegan, HFLC, HCLF, Paleo. Some people do not understand that no matter how healthy you are eating, if you are eating too much you will gain weight. Even if the threshold is lower for some people due to health issues, the concept is the same.
Yep.0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »
You can cite inaccuracies till the cows come home and while you're waiting for the nirvana of perfection, the rest of us will be meeting / maintaining our goals. I sincerely hope you meet yours as well, but it's going to take a remarkable attitude adjustment.
Good luck, you're gonna need it.
You seem to misunderstand my post entirely, while at the same time sort of supporting it. I wrote the post to highlight patronizing responses that basically only serve to belittle a person.
Also, I'm not gonna need luck or an attitude adjustment, as I said in my post, I've been very successful losing 40lbs already..thanks tho.0 -
^^Good thing he asked! I didn't realize this was a "mean people of MFP" post0
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danieltsmoke wrote: »
Maybe people have just been here so long that all the repeat threads just wear on people. I mean... it's only the most obvious answer that doesn't require any complex description. Eat less, move more. Simple concept, sometimes hard to apply.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »
The validity and effectiveness of calorie counting methodology is a different topic than snarkiness of forum participants
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danieltsmoke wrote: »
While this is a support structure, you must realize not every question is a good question.At a certain point it gets tiring hearing the exact same questions over and over again.No sugars aren't the devil, no a cleanse wont work, no a mlm scheme isn't your friend, there is no starvation mode, and no eating 900 calories a day isn't good. A lot of the snark (that I have seen), comes when the same person does the same thing over and over again looking for validation on something that was told was a bad idea before hand. So yea it is easier to just say It is easy just do CICO.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
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strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.0 -
I think the problem is when nobody is arguing against CICO, but saying they need information or want to know about other things and people bombard them with, "This is what I did, so this is what you need to do! CICO! CICO! CICO!"MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Generally knowing that the more food you eat the more you will weigh is not the same as knowing that calories in calories out works for a certainty, in 100% of people. More food does not always equal more calories.
What I've seen most people asking is why they're not losing weight. I wouldn't presume to tell them what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, after work snack, before picking up the kid, and what each meal should contain. That would be presumptuous and condescending, IMO. Heck, not everyone that is working on losing weight and not seeing results is necessarily hungry, so we can't just dive right into tips on how to feel sated, either, for example.
There's only one answer to why folks aren't losing weight - not in a long term caloric deficit. As you reference people being adults, if they have other questions or points of confusion, it's their responsibility to ask or perform a search. It's a bit ridiculous to expect the forum participants to be mind readers...
You've seen it. People say they're trying to eat a healthier diet - which is like some kind of unpardonable sin to some - and they start in with their "No! My way! My way! My way!" (I'm not even exaggerating there. I didn't make that up, lol.)
There's also the "We did it this way and lost weight, so don't disagree with us!" and "If you don't diet our way, you will fail!" stuff.
It's just a little much.
Exactly.0 -
Thank you for this post OP0
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danieltsmoke wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.
Because it is. While it's not EASY to calculate the calories burned during exercise or have an exact number of calories in a deficit, it's not as difficult as you're making it out to be.
Even the average person who ISN'T counting CICO can cut down on portion sizes, become more mindful of their food choices, and exercise more and see great results.
My idea is that while my calorie range that i'm logging is not perfectly accurate, it's accurate enough to count a downward trend or upward trend and adjust my exercise/food accordingly. This takes a few weeks to get the hang of, but it's not the rocket science you're making it out to be.
Of course suggesting someone starts weighing their food, being more accurate in their logging, wearing a fitness device which estimates calories burned, etc. Is still great advice because for these people they are NOT yet being honest with WHAT and HOW MUCH they are eating. Maybe they need to be a little more accurate because they aren't losing. Or gaining. Or they're an athlete. etc.
The point is, logging food/exercise is really not that difficult. And something can always be done to make it more accurate when need be.
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@joaniee glad you liked it. It's just that I've spent a lot of time teaching class rooms, and learned a long to way that being approachable and able to diffuse frustration are some of the most important assets to education ..on the contrary, feeling insecure or belittled basically shuts down most people's capacity to learn.0
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rainbowbow wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.
Because it is. While it's not EASY to calculate the calories burned during exercise or have an exact number of calories in a deficit, it's not as difficult as you're making it out to be.
Even the average person who ISN'T counting CICO can cut down on portion sizes, become more mindful of their food choices, and exercise more and see great results.
My idea is that while my calorie range that i'm logging is not perfectly accurate, it's accurate enough to count a downward trend or upward trend and adjust my exercise/food accordingly. This takes a few weeks to get the hang of, but it's not the rocket science you're making it out to be.
Of course suggesting someone starts weighing their food, being more accurate in their logging, wearing a fitness device which estimates calories burned, etc. Is still great advice because for these people they are NOT yet being honest with WHAT and HOW MUCH they are eating. Maybe they need to be a little more accurate because they aren't losing. Or gaining. Or they're an athlete. etc.
The point is, logging food/exercise is really not that difficult. And something can always be done to make it more accurate when need be.
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danieltsmoke wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.
I read your first post, I was one of the first responders who said CICO does work, I've put it into practice and lost weight.0 -
Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
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bennettinfinity wrote: »OP - you seem to only be responding to those that support your preconceived notions, and that's your prerogative - but the people you're choosing to ignore are some of the most successful on this site.
You can cite inaccuracies till the cows come home and while you're waiting for the nirvana of perfection, the rest of us will be meeting / maintaining our goals. I sincerely hope you meet yours as well, but it's going to take a remarkable attitude adjustment.
Good luck, you're gonna need it.
I doubt the OP will need a remarkable attitude adjustment. He's lost 40 pounds with the attitude he has. I hope he sticks with what's working for him!!!0 -
kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
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So if you don't want to hear "CICO" or "eat less than you burn," what would be an acceptable message ... Cuz "everyone is different" seems pretty useless.0
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Simple doesn't mean easy. And simple is often overlooked in the multi-million dollar diet and weight loss industry. Simple is hard to make money off.
It is all CICO. Actually doing it is a lot harder. Accurately logging and weighing is not something most are accustomed. Following all these rules and diet plans that guarantee success is something that people are used to. I've fallen victim to that more times than I could count. I failed on most of them. That is why I was overweight, not because I couldn't count but because I was convinced it was more complicated than just counting.
So I will say CICO til the cows come home. If that grates, please feel free to ignore me. I will still say it for those who it might make a difference for...like it did for me.
It doesn't grate, I just don't think it is very helpful.
But we disagree, so that's just how it is.
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