Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
Replies
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nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
In your example, you've literally got a dozen choices
I, for one, think we could all benefit from a forum etiquette and *kitten* Kissing of OP stickie. That way when people who've taken time out of their day to respond to an OP's post aren't doing it in the nicest way, we can direct those jerks to "Read the Stickies". How about that!0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
Except . . . do you deny that a person eating less and moving more is more likely to find success than someone who doesn't do those things? Many on here have told posters that they should consider medical attention if weighing their food, going by what MFP or a calculator gives them for calories, or are otherwise not seeing results.
Honestly though, how long has it taken you to lose those 40 pounds? You started out VERY obese and have been crash dieting, so we could be talking weeks here. You ignore all of the posters who have had success (including some who have maintained for years) and +1 all the other noobs who agree with you. Your post was a morass of fat logic and I can't believe people are taking you seriously.0 -
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3dogsrunning wrote: »"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.
THAT, right there, is the real problem. For some incomprehensible reason, certain people on this site view this as taking sides. An US AGAINST THEM battle of some sort. It is truly bizarre to me. Supposedly everybody here is interested in health. This is not a competitive thing...we can all be healthier. If I get healthier doing something different than you, it doesn't take anything away from your own progress. Yet people attach their ego to their eating habits and weight loss strategies and every thread turns into a steel cage death match.0 -
I know it can get frustrating seeing the same question posted day after day, not to mention questions being asked with little to no information or background. It happens on every forum that I have seen. No matter what, it is going to happen, even if the answer is right in front of someone. A long time member can get irritated and rebuke the new member and be condescending, or he or she can take a few extra minutes and help someone. And who knows how much that could really mean to the one helped or someone reading after the fact
Like I said, it's an interesting point. It just highlights what you think is the experience from the "veteran" perspective, whereas both the OP and the post you initially quoted were about new people not wanting to read the same responses over and over again. "Newbie" frustration, not "veteran" frustration0 -
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danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
I guess I am a little slow tonight. How is that not usable advice? Typically it is followed by
Do you weight your foods
Do you completely Log
Do you only eat back only part of your exercise calories
And 99% of the time one of these comes with a no. Problem is pointed out then magically the person comes back 2 - 4 weeks later and goes it works !!!
I do find it kind of funny that a person who fails to take advice tells others they shouldn't give advice.
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I don't understand why just saying "CICO" is supposed to be rude.
It's science. Science has no emotion, either positive or negative.
If you don't like it, that's your fault, not the person stating the truth.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
So who's fault is that?0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
So affirming the most basic steps with new people who are struggling is a waste of time? If they had mastered those basic steps, they wouldn't be struggling - logic dictates the you start at the beginning. Sorry if that's not good enough for you.0 -
There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
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professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.0 -
I still have yet to see anyone complaining about the CICO advice give something better.0
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nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
But if you're the one asking the question, you don't get to direct the manner in which it's answered. Take the information presented, use it or throw it away - that's up to you. You can't get worked up because you didn't like the 'tone' of the response - just be grateful someone cared enough to try to help.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »@nvsmomketo /agree
Shocker.0 -
barbecuesauce wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
Except . . . do you deny that a person eating less and moving more is more likely to find success than someone who doesn't do those things? Many on here have told posters that they should consider medical attention if weighing their food, going by what MFP or a calculator gives them for calories, or are otherwise not seeing results.
Honestly though, how long has it taken you to lose those 40 pounds? You started out VERY obese and have been crash dieting, so we could be talking weeks here. You ignore all of the posters who have had success (including some who have maintained for years) and +1 all the other noobs who agree with you. Your post was a morass of fat logic and I can't believe people are taking you seriously.
+ 1 because truth.0 -
Daniel, you'd find the reception to your threads would be vastly different if you explained what your doctor has said about your VLCD. Best wishes.0
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It's been my experience that the longer and more complex the advice being given is, the less likely it is that the OP will even read it. And only about half of all OPs come back to answer follow-up questions that could help with more specific advice (even when a thread stays small and uncontentious). I think many people give shortened responses because they're in a rush or on a mobile device or just think it's more likely that the OP will read one sentence vs. five paragraphs. Many of them may hope or assume that other users who have the time can help fill in any blanks they've left. If someone is unhappy with the shorthand advice being given, take the time to help fill in those blanks.0
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »@nvsmomketo /agree
Shocker.
See, there's that whole lack of manners thing I brought up.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
It is an incomplete answer
That is the problem with the quip type answers that prevail on MFP
Most people do not want to disregard health for weight loss
Even attempting to defend the weak answers of CICO on does not seem logical
Who says I want to lose weight with no regard to health?
It is not the "science behind weight loss". It is one element in the science of weight loss.
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accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
I don't know what threads you've been to, but I've seen plenty of people give advice on eating styles and sustainability of said eating styles and pro and cons people have experienced while doing IF or IIFYM or what have you. People don't want bunches of options, it seems. Then again, many arguments happen because one person favors something another doesn't. The ROOT of the issue when it comes to weight loss IS calories in, calories out. No need to summarize the entirety of this forum for every post. People are kind enough to, as I said above, make very helpful things to get people through their obstacles, like a flow chart that includes factors like starting a new exercise routine, how long they have been in a caloric deficit. It's the internet, you're gonna swim through some BS and YES, unless you have a health condition that can impede goals, it DOES boil down to accurately tracking. Nobody on this forum has disagreed with adding more fruits and vegetables to your daily meals. But by golly, you should not be afraid to eat ice cream if you want to eat ice cream!0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
But if you're the one asking the question, you don't get to direct the manner in which it's answered. Take the information presented, use it or throw it away - that's up to you. You can't get worked up because you didn't like the 'tone' of the response - just be grateful someone cared enough to try to help.
Tone matters. I question whether some of the people who respond...not referring to anybody in this thread...are actually trying to help. I think there really are a few who just like to take any opportunity to talk down to somebody else, and these forums give them an easy way to do it. I also think there are a few who care much more about trying to be funny and posting the cutest cat gif than they do about trying to help the OP. Hijacking someone's thread when they ask for help is not helpful.0 -
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nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
And despite it all you're still here so it seems you figured it out somehow, even with all the noise and impoliteness. Of course you're going to say excuse me, because the guy in front of you is unaware that he's in your way, he was just standing there doing his own thing. Now if he was blocking your way and asking questions, and asking you to please explain the answers to him in minute detail, then proceeded to whine about the answers you gave him......well. I know which response I would give, and it would be worse than "move".0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.0 -
Cranquistador wrote: »
Oh yeah, and this.^^0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.0
This discussion has been closed.
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