Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
Replies
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So the gist of all this is that newbies who fail to use the search function or read the stickies and ask vague questions on a free forum are getting answers from strangers trying to help that you feel are not personalized and complete enough?0
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blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.
Yet every post that references "clean eating" will eventually be closed/deleted because it devolves into a tired debate about how CICO is all that matters and foods are completely equal outside of individual dietary context. Doesn't seem very accepting of alternate approaches.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
The fact that you think there's a single alternative is the problem. It depends on circumstance, which is the entire point of the OP that seems to have been missed.0 -
Alluminati wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
And despite it all you're still here so it seems you figured it out somehow, even with all the noise and impoliteness. Of course you're going to say excuse me, because the guy in front of you is unaware that he's in your way, he was just standing there doing his own thing. Now if he was blocking your way and asking questions, and asking you to please explain the answers to him in minute detail, then proceeded to whine about the answers you gave him......well. I know which response I would give, and it would be worse than "move".
Possibly... Possibly.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.
Yet every post that references "clean eating" will eventually be closed/deleted because it devolves into a tired debate about how CICO is all that matters and foods are completely equal outside of individual dietary context. Doesn't seem very accepting of alternate approaches.
No, it's closed because opposing factions with strangely identical food diaries can't stay civil. It's not closed because of the debate itself.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
The fact that you think there's an alternative is the problem. It depends on circumstance, which is the entire point of the OP that seems to have been missed.
An alternative to what?
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The obvious answer would seem to be...bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If they have a question about eating a healthier diet, discuss healthy diet options.
If they have a question about plateaus, discuss plateaus.
...so I assume that you think that's out for some reason, because it's just too obvious to be missed. What's wrong it?
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accidentalpancake wrote: »blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.
Yet every post that references "clean eating" will eventually be closed/deleted because it devolves into a tired debate about how CICO is all that matters and foods are completely equal outside of individual dietary context. Doesn't seem very accepting of alternate approaches.
IMO clean eating threads go south because of the trend to attach moral values to food choices. And you're showing a bias by saying that CICO people bash clean eating (which is a misrepresentation anyway, since as I stated, true CICO just means maintaining a deficit by the means of your choice), but not admitting that some clean eating people sometimes portray sugar as evil.
Heaven forbid that we accept that neither side is 'bad', just achieving a deficit (CICO) through alternate means. And heaven forbid that we acknowledge that most people here advocate eating a generally healthy diet to achieve CICO, and add treats as your CICO allowance permits.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
Yes. Agreed.
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blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.
Yet every post that references "clean eating" will eventually be closed/deleted because it devolves into a tired debate about how CICO is all that matters and foods are completely equal outside of individual dietary context. Doesn't seem very accepting of alternate approaches.
IMO clean eating threads go south because of the trend to attach moral values to food choices. And you're showing a bias by saying that CICO people bash clean eating (which is a misrepresentation anyway, since as I stated, true CICO just means maintaining a deficit by the means of your choice), but not admitting that some clean eating people sometimes portray sugar as evil.
Heaven forbid that we accept that neither side is 'bad', just achieving a deficit (CICO) through alternate means. And heaven forbid that we acknowledge that most people here advocate eating a generally healthy diet to achieve CICO, and add treats as your CICO allowance permits.
The only people I ever see talk about moral value of food are people who get upset at the mention of reducing or eliminating a given food. Some of them view it as a personal attack which is just bizarre and says more about them than it does about the person talking about food. Just like the people who go crazy when someone mentions junk food. It's aimed at the food, not the people who eat it.
Same with the word evil...it is usually used by people who DO eat the food.0 -
Yes, some people are way over the top on the sugar thing. So what. It's not a personal insult to those who eat it. It's not good reason to make fun of them.blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »blankiefinder wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
CICO includes low carb, or low sugar, or whatever other route people want to take to achieve a deficit.
Yet every post that references "clean eating" will eventually be closed/deleted because it devolves into a tired debate about how CICO is all that matters and foods are completely equal outside of individual dietary context. Doesn't seem very accepting of alternate approaches.
IMO clean eating threads go south because of the trend to attach moral values to food choices. And you're showing a bias by saying that CICO people bash clean eating (which is a misrepresentation anyway, since as I stated, true CICO just means maintaining a deficit by the means of your choice), but not admitting that some clean eating people sometimes portray sugar as evil.
Heaven forbid that we accept that neither side is 'bad', just achieving a deficit (CICO) through alternate means. And heaven forbid that we acknowledge that most people here advocate eating a generally healthy diet to achieve CICO, and add treats as your CICO allowance permits.
Even if they refuse to believe that any sugar is okay - so what.
Remember the guy who hated breakfast? He was insane with his war on breakfast and crusade against it. There was NO WAY that guy was ever giving up. He was going to fight breakfast until he drew his last breath. Nobody was going to stop him from trying to introduce his Abolish Breakfast messages from any (or every) thread.
I learned a lot from Breakfast Is Evil And Must Die guy. They're never going to change their minds. Sugar people are no different.
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accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
Have a look at the thread entitled : "Help with Toning exercises" First post is pretty much what is being discussed here. Its a generalized CICO post with the again repeated "You can't spot reduce" all of which isn't even an answer to the OP's original question! Its not helping anyone.0 -
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Subtlety is a lost art :bigsmile:0
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kittywrangler wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
Have a look at the thread entitled : "Help with Toning exercises" First post is pretty much what is being discussed here. Its a generalized CICO post with the again repeated "You can't spot reduce" all of which isn't even an answer to the OP's original question! Its not helping anyone.
4 out of the 7 or so posts include helpful sources of information. Do you expect people to spoon feed information to adults? Maybe it's because I usually try to Google stuff on my own before asking really simple questions on an internet forum... I just don't get why people don't just type their thread titles into Google.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »I've lost 40lbs about, so what I'm doing is working for me, I'm not complaining. But I get frustrated when I see a forums response like "Just eat less calories than you're burning...are you sure you're weighing accurately?" This seems patronizing, and also is flawed in a couple ways.
First, it's really difficult to just know how many calories you're burning..I don't have a butt stamp indicating that number, or even an owners manual, so the best I've got is taking blood tests and running fitness experiments (which simply isn't practical for an average person), OR using an online calculator/guestimator, which let's be honest, has a HUGE margin of error. Some sites I have a 2500 TDE, some say 3500..
Secondly, its really difficult to just know how many calories you're eating..Have you googled "food label accuracy"? That stuff can often be 20%-40% wrong..not even to mention that some things just cant be calculated accurately..ie. one steak from a package could be hugely more caloric-ly dense simply due to a higher fat content.
My point is, even if you follow all the right steps, you could easily have an over estimated TDE (by no fault of your own), and eat far underestimated calories (by no fault of your own), and simply not lose weight. Thus "just eat less than you burn" is fairly useless.
If I had any advice to offer to people struggling, I'd say it's all about trial and error, which can be frustratingly slow. You gotta try something, whether its working out more, or trying to stay under a certain amount-ish of calories, and see how that goes for a few weeks. If that doesn't work, change it up, and try again. Patience has been my biggest struggle but probably my greatest ally during the last few months, and I know that once you find your groove you're gonna kick your fitness goals right in the somewhat large *kitten*. Rant over..
I now I'm late to the game, and I have not read any replies yet, but you're right, it's all pretty much estimates and trial and error, but a person can still strive for accuracy. Weigh and log everything you eat and do your own research to ensure your calorie intake is as accurate as you can get it. If you exercise, getting a heart rate monitor is a good idea. If calibrated properly, its estimate will be more accurate than any app or online source.0 -
At least everyone can agree that the spam should be flagged.
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
Have a look at the thread entitled : "Help with Toning exercises" First post is pretty much what is being discussed here. Its a generalized CICO post with the again repeated "You can't spot reduce" all of which isn't even an answer to the OP's original question! Its not helping anyone.
4 out of the 7 or so posts include helpful sources of information. Do you expect people to spoon feed information to adults? Maybe it's because I usually try to Google stuff on my own before asking really simple questions on an internet forum... I just don't get why people don't just type their thread titles into Google.
Maybe people are looking for a connection? Maybe they're lonely. Maybe they need support. Maybe they're drunk. Maybe they've been bullied and are so frustrated with their weight they are looking for help and have no idea where to start. Enter MFP forums where they can further get online bullied. Unhelpful posts appear passive aggressive.
The point I'm trying to make is we are all human and I think a little more compassion is needed in life.
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kittywrangler wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
Have a look at the thread entitled : "Help with Toning exercises" First post is pretty much what is being discussed here. Its a generalized CICO post with the again repeated "You can't spot reduce" all of which isn't even an answer to the OP's original question! Its not helping anyone.
4 out of the 7 or so posts include helpful sources of information. Do you expect people to spoon feed information to adults? Maybe it's because I usually try to Google stuff on my own before asking really simple questions on an internet forum... I just don't get why people don't just type their thread titles into Google.
Maybe people are looking for a connection? Maybe they're lonely. Maybe they need support. Maybe they're drunk. Maybe they've been bullied and are so frustrated with their weight they are looking for help and have no idea where to start. Enter MFP forums where they can further get online bullied. Unhelpful posts appear passive aggressive.
The point I'm trying to make is we are all human and I think a little more compassion is needed in life.
I agree compassion is needed, but adults shouldn't be treated like children... You have the entire world at your fingertips and... just.... ugh. My expectations may just be too high. Leaving work now. Have a good night ya'll!0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
Hi,
First congrats on your losses to date, and best of luck to you with the rest of your program.
I think the reason you see CICO comments so often is that first and foremost, it's the single common denominator in getting the weight off. The manner in which you do your CICO (low carb, low fat, keto, veg/vegan, etc) is up to you. There are so many views there that you'll never get a consensus. Everyone has their own tricks, but what worked for me or someone else might not work for you.
But the net remains ... you have to take in less than you burn.
Just as frustrated as you are with the CICO mantra, I get frustrated by people (in the physical world) asking me about the "secret" to my success. Unfortunately, there wasn't one, I ate fewer calories (helped by eating lots of fresh veg with lots of volume but few calories) and I moved more. There was no magic, but so many people asking me seemed to want just magic, not work. It was indeed, hard work. And remains hard work to keep the weight off. And will remain forever hard work for me to keep the weight off.
If people aren't getting answers by asking "how can I lose weight?" in the general forum, maybe try reading up on some success stories. Perhaps they'll see a program there that works for them, and they can follow a path that interests them.
For example, here's mine: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10021880/what-a-difference-a-year-makes/p1
Then you can build up a collection of like-minded, similarly focused friends, and work together in a small group.
Cheers ...
PS -- Edited to add, I found this comment in my own success story: "It's been a great journey, which I don't think I would have done without the data tracking on MFP, as well as the support from some fantastic MFP friends." For me, it was all about tracking the numbers. Without the data, I wouldn't have succeeded ... likewise, I wouldn't have done it without the support of some really good friends I made along the way.
0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction. That puts you on the road to rejecting large calorie loads (ONE cookie is 300 calories?! NOT worth it! *munches carrots*)
CICO isn't ABOUT -health-, it's just the science behind weight loss. When people ask about weight loss, that is the answer they get.
Actually, pretty much any question is answered with CICO, which is part of the problem.
Want advice on eating healthier diet? You'll get a ridiculous argument that food is food and CICO is all that matters.
Ask a question about a plateau? The answer is CICO and you must not be accurately tracking intake.
It'd be amusing if it weren't so actively unhelpful to those seeking assistance.
If you have better advice, we're all ears... pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
If you think that spouting off CICO as the final answer to either of the example questions in my post, there's no discussion worth having.
Some of us prefer to realize that nuance and personal circumstance play a large role in success. If someone wants to give low carb a try or reduce their sugar intake, who are you to demean that decision?
CICO isn't being denied, only the derisive and unhelpful way in which it is used to belittle any approach that adds other, more personal variables.
So, you don't really have one.
Due to a lot of complaints about the "incomplete" nature of the CICO response, most posters have modified it to be something along the lines of:
1) CICO for weight loss
2) Macros for health, satiety, consistency, and sustainability.
3) Exercise if you want to (but you probably should because it's good for you; find something you enjoy).
*Disclaimer: If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor and probably a registered dietitian to set you on the right path for you.
I have not seen just "CICO" as a response in a long, long time, unless the OP is giving a lot of push back because there just HAS to be some secret.
And to the person saying tone matters - tone is extremely difficult to determine based on text. Is it just maybe possible that you read hostility into responses from people who you don't like/have had disagreements with? That seems to be the only tone issues I've ever truly seen.
Have a look at the thread entitled : "Help with Toning exercises" First post is pretty much what is being discussed here. Its a generalized CICO post with the again repeated "You can't spot reduce" all of which isn't even an answer to the OP's original question! Its not helping anyone.
4 out of the 7 or so posts include helpful sources of information. Do you expect people to spoon feed information to adults? Maybe it's because I usually try to Google stuff on my own before asking really simple questions on an internet forum... I just don't get why people don't just type their thread titles into Google.
Maybe people are looking for a connection? Maybe they're lonely. Maybe they need support. Maybe they're drunk. Maybe they've been bullied and are so frustrated with their weight they are looking for help and have no idea where to start. Enter MFP forums where they can further get online bullied. Unhelpful posts appear passive aggressive.
The point I'm trying to make is we are all human and I think a little more compassion is needed in life.
I agree compassion is needed, but adults shouldn't be treated like children... You have the entire world at your fingertips and... just.... ugh. My expectations may just be too high. Leaving work now. Have a good night ya'll!
Not everyone is as smart or savvy as you. Have a good evening!0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction.
That's not the first step.
It's not even the second step.
0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction.
That's not the first step.
It's not even the second step.
Please expand on this.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »professionalHobbyist wrote: »There are lots of condescending comments to new people on MFP.
The whole CICO is one very simple aspect of food
It ignores all of the other aspects of nutrition
I ate a crappy diet. Eating less of a crappy diet is not the best health option. That is why my dr sent me to a nutritionist.
I don't think many people want to just lose weight with no regard to learning how to eat a balanced diet.
Maybe some do, not sure why but that is their choice.
I'm glad I had worked with a nutritionist and trainer before getting to MFP.
The point is to understand the first step. Calorie restriction.
That's not the first step.
It's not even the second step.
Please expand on this.
The first step for many people is accepting that there isn't any magic to the process and that they CAN do it. Many here don't believe they can, and many are looking for non-existent shortcuts.
The second step is to learn how to log - jumping right to calorie restrictions isn't going to help someone until they first figure out how to count what they're eating. And that happens...a LOT...around here.
(This is assuming someone is committing to calorie counting, which isn't strictly speaking necessary at all).
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I'm a numbers junkie, and can be pretty OCD, so everything about calorie counting is awesome...for me. But I'm not normal - that all these numbers and calculators and estimators make *me* happy should actually be a warning sign that maybe this isn't the best approach for more typical people.
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I'm a numbers junkie, and can be pretty OCD, so everything about calorie counting is awesome...for me. But I'm not normal - that all these numbers and calculators and estimators make *me* happy should actually be a warning sign that maybe this isn't the best approach for more typical people.
Yeah... There was actually an interesting comment earlier about one of the posters being mad about food scale advise because it would be contraindicated for those with OCD tendencies. Of course I've never actually seen people continue to insist that those who have those issues continue to weigh their food. It's just a simple option ($15 item) that can be used to get better results, and so is suggested ALL the time. If one cannot use it for any reason, then it's time to explore other options
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So the gist of all this is that newbies who fail to use the search function or read the stickies and ask vague questions on a free forum are getting answers from strangers trying to help that you feel are not personalized and complete enough?
I'm quite a bit more cynical
I think the topic and concerns were actually as presented in the OP. People took the time to present their takes on how food logged and calories burned could indeed be more accurate, and suddenly the OP digs their heels in - in their attempt to still be right - and Oh, they really meant all along that people are just rude
Honestly, I do vaguely remember someone asking him on his thread why he wanted to be a fool or some such. If the topic really is people's lack of manners, I suppose it's an interesting one - just not one we were sold in the OP and I'm not sure I would have bothered reading past the first sentence or participating if that were the case
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diannethegeek wrote: »It's been my experience that the longer and more complex the advice being given is, the less likely it is that the OP will even read it. And only about half of all OPs come back to answer follow-up questions that could help with more specific advice (even when a thread stays small and uncontentious). I think many people give shortened responses because they're in a rush or on a mobile device or just think it's more likely that the OP will read one sentence vs. five paragraphs. Many of them may hope or assume that other users who have the time can help fill in any blanks they've left. If someone is unhappy with the shorthand advice being given, take the time to help fill in those blanks.
This.
Many op's never respond on their own post... why explain in detail if they don't seem serious.
Many ops are not detailed enough, so they get the basic answer. You cannot mind read what is going on with the op.
The stickies are the best advice to noob.
It is the internet, you have to be able to weed out the sarcasm and move on.
Some give short answers just to keep it bumped so others may see it and give better/detailed answers.0
This discussion has been closed.
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