Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..

There is no obligation to "help".

If you are asking for help, the obligation is on you to be clear, accurate, and forthcoming. If you don't do all those things, you're in no position to complain about either the quality or the tenor of the "help" you receive.

3dogsrunning wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

3dogsrunning wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."

California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!

And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.

Yes, it can. It can apply to all kinds of things. It's a pretty general thing.

Ok. Then I don't get the point.

Best I can glean from it is to quit the arguments in various threads because it's not beneficial to people seeking help

Edit for clarity

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.

There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.

Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.

Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.

This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?

If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.

I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.

I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.

It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.

Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.

There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.

In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.

If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.

It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.

We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.

It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.

I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.

There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.

Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.

Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.

This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?

If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.

I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.

I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.

It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.

Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.

There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.

In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.

If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.

It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.

We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.

It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.

I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.

You've made some good points of your own, but didn't really address what you quoted

She said if newbies are irritated because they keep reading the same responses, maybe they could read existing posts, which would reduce the total count of the same answers

What's 1+1? Answer: 2

Doesn't matter how many ways shapes or forms you ask this question, it always will be that simple and the answer ain't gunna change. What really is to be done for people not wanting to read that same answer over and over again? If anything, that happens because other users are patient and do answer the question no matter how many times it is posed, in an attempt to give each OP the attention they would have wanted for themselves when they were in the same situation

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.

There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.

Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.

Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.

This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?

If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.

I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.

I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.

It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.

Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.

There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.

In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.

If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.

It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.

We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.

It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.

I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.

Agreed. And also, some people have been here so long they just like to start messing with people. For some, this is more than a serious forum for exchange of eating style and fitness goals. It's a place to make fun of toxinzzz and placebos and diet scams. Can't take the internet seriously all the time, yanno?

Last year, I was having a lot of problems trying to get started. And my weight was gradually rising to the 200 mark. Finally, I reached out to my health provider (a local hospital), who put me in touch with a dietician. She got me started with two simple goals: put a cap on my eating (which I was having trouble doing) and increase my activity. I did both. I'm down 25 pounds since January. I use MFP, plus I go to the gym often. (Exercise of choice: rowing machine, plus I work out with a training 2-3 times a week.) I also use Fitbit.

But basically, use MFP to count your calories and stick to it. And increase the activity. 10k steps a day is a good start.

JaneiR36 wrote: »

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

BasicGreatGuy wrote: »

ogmomma2012 wrote: »

Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.

There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.

Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.

Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.

This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?

If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.

I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.

I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.

It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.

Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.

There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.

In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.

If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.

It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.

We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.

It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.

I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.

You've made some good points of your own, but didn't really address what you quoted

She said if newbies are irritated because they keep reading the same responses, maybe they could read existing posts, which would reduce the total count of the same answers

What's 1+1? Answer: 2

Doesn't matter how many ways shapes or forms you ask this question, it always will be that simple and the answer ain't gunna change. What really is to be done for people not wanting to read that same answer over and over again? If anything, that happens because other users are patient and do answer the question no matter how many times it is posed, in an attempt to give each OP the attention they would have wanted for themselves when they were in the same situation

My last retort was more of a general observation response than a point by point retort that addressed many specifics of the member's post.

A lot of people new to the site don't know their way around, are not computer savvy, <insert any number of reasons here>.

I know it can get frustrating seeing the same question posted day after day, not to mention questions being asked with little to no information or background. It happens on every forum that I have seen. No matter what, it is going to happen, even if the answer is right in front of someone. A long time member can get irritated and rebuke the new member and be condescending, or he or she can take a few extra minutes and help someone. And who knows how much that could really mean to the one helped or someone reading after the fact.

Once a person loses his or her voice on a forum, it is very hard to ever get it back. All people will want to remember is that bad moment you had. And for several veterans here, it looks like there have been several bad moments.

We don't always get treated like we would like. And when you come to a forum day after day trying to help, only to be met with the kinds of things I have mentioned, it can take its toll on you if you allow it to.

When all is said and done, all we can truly control, is how each of us responds to the other. None of us is perfect. But, I think the thread could have gone much better than it has, if bruised egos hadn't gotten in the way, with kids kicking dirt on each other saying my dad can beat up your dad mentality.

I have done my best to convey my points. As such, I will take leave. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I just ask that people stop for a few moments and reflect on what has been said. And if you still disagree, no problem. That is what makes the world a great place. We can agree to disagree.