New article against organic food...
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_John_
Posts: 8,642 Member
reads like bullet point list of discussions here (obviously from the unsupportive side of organic food). Posting here to discuss because reasons...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2015/07/29/why-organic-agriculture-is-a-colossal-hoax/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2015/07/29/why-organic-agriculture-is-a-colossal-hoax/
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Wow. This statement "Some consumers think that the USDA National Organic Program (NOP) requires certified organic products to be free of ingredients from “GMOs,” organisms crafted with molecular techniques of genetic engineering. Wrong again. USDA does not require organic products to be GMO-free. " is very misleading and smacks of propaganda or fear mongering.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5105405
The use of genetic engineering, or genetically modified organisms (GMOs), is prohibited in organic products. This means an organic farmer can’t plant GMO seeds, an organic cow can’t eat GMO alfalfa or corn, and an organic soup producer can’t use any GMO ingredients.
To meet the USDA organic regulations, farmers and processors must show they aren’t using GMOs and that they are protecting their products from contact with prohibited substances from farm to table.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Wow. This statement "Some consumers think that the USDA National Organic Program (NOP) requires certified organic products to be free of ingredients from “GMOs,” organisms crafted with molecular techniques of genetic engineering. Wrong again. USDA does not require organic products to be GMO-free. " is very misleading and smacks of propaganda or fear mongering.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5105405
The use of genetic engineering, or genetically modified organisms (GMOs), is prohibited in organic products. This means an organic farmer can’t plant GMO seeds, an organic cow can’t eat GMO alfalfa or corn, and an organic soup producer can’t use any GMO ingredients.
To meet the USDA organic regulations, farmers and processors must show they aren’t using GMOs and that they are protecting their products from contact with prohibited substances from farm to table.
yeah, that's a far cry from "if a farmer has done all his paper work and follows proper procedures and happens to get a GMO in a crop anyway (however unlikely), then it can still be sold as organic".0 -
I just bought "certified organic" peacotums (apricot-plum-peach hybrid) two weeks ago. Washed off more pesticides off them than I did anything else I bought at that farmers market...
I generally avoid organic crap like my life depends on it. I am not a fan of paying extra money for food because that farmer can afford to pay the government the fee to be certifiable. It means nothing (says the girl that grew up on an orchard). Only got these atrocities because my husband wanted to try them. FYI.... they were either not ripe or they are just super bitter.0 -
Shalaurise wrote: »I just bought "certified organic" peacotums (apricot-plum-peach hybrid) two weeks ago. Washed off more pesticides off them than I did anything else I bought at that farmers market...
I'd be curious to know how you know this. How did you measure the amount of pesticides washed off? What pesticides were they?0 -
"Organic" is just another way to sell the same thing to stupid people at a higher price...most of the time "organic" is inferior, it's also not sustainable for our population. Just dumb hipsters trying to be "cool"0
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Escloflowne wrote: »"Organic" is just another way to sell the same thing to stupid people at a higher price...most of the time "organic" is inferior, it's also not sustainable for our population. Just dumb hipsters trying to be "cool"
Inferior in what way?0 -
Smaller and less juicy among other things, most blind taste tests end up with non-organic veggies and fruit being chosen as tasting better.0
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Escloflowne wrote: »Smaller and less juicy among other things, most blind taste tests end up with non-organic veggies and fruit being chosen as tasting better.
Can you be specific about the tests? A link or some type of reference? I've only seen a couple of taste tests between organic and non-organic and they showed no significant difference in taste or nutritrient content.0 -
I joined an organic farm co-op some years ago.
The fruits and veggies were OK but looked much like the produce from a typical grocery.
And the cost was almost 3 times higher.
Today, I just buy regular fruits and veggies, and that is as good as it's going to get.
I see no value in "organic".0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Escloflowne wrote: »Smaller and less juicy among other things, most blind taste tests end up with non-organic veggies and fruit being chosen as tasting better.
Can you be specific about the tests? A link or some type of reference? I've only seen a couple of taste tests between organic and non-organic and they showed no significant difference in taste or nutritrient content.
I don't have time for that, I've also seen experiments where they label the organic as"non-Organic" and non-Organic as "organic" and people choose the "organic"(so actually non-organic) 100% of the time as being better tasting. That tells me that it's mostly a mental thing.0 -
There aren't any specific tolerance levels from the organic label in gmo as in pesticides from the usda.
The agents who checks up and the farmer who fills out the paper work.... all on the honor system. How often are they checked for pesticides (unknown levels) and gmo planting is again the honor system.
Still seem to be just a label with personal confidence in the grower.
Personally, I would not trust the grower unless I knew them. No confidence in the govt lable. (organic)
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Escloflowne wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Escloflowne wrote: »Smaller and less juicy among other things, most blind taste tests end up with non-organic veggies and fruit being chosen as tasting better.
Can you be specific about the tests? A link or some type of reference? I've only seen a couple of taste tests between organic and non-organic and they showed no significant difference in taste or nutritrient content.
I don't have time for that, I've also seen experiments where they label the organic as"non-Organic" and non-Organic as "organic" and people choose the "organic"(so actually non-organic) 100% of the time as being better tasting. That tells me that it's mostly a mental thing.
Too bad you can't share the information.
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I buy organic occasionally but only because of taste. Organic bananas and carrots taste much better IMO but I only buy them if the price is close to the same as regular.0
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Escloflowne wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Escloflowne wrote: »Smaller and less juicy among other things, most blind taste tests end up with non-organic veggies and fruit being chosen as tasting better.
Can you be specific about the tests? A link or some type of reference? I've only seen a couple of taste tests between organic and non-organic and they showed no significant difference in taste or nutritrient content.
I don't have time for that, I've also seen experiments where they label the organic as"non-Organic" and non-Organic as "organic" and people choose the "organic"(so actually non-organic) 100% of the time as being better tasting. That tells me that it's mostly a mental thing.
Most people don't eat organic because of taste. That's more a reason to eat local because it's fresher.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Wow. This statement "Some consumers think that the USDA National Organic Program (NOP) requires certified organic products to be free of ingredients from “GMOs,” organisms crafted with molecular techniques of genetic engineering. Wrong again. USDA does not require organic products to be GMO-free. " is very misleading and smacks of propaganda or fear mongering.
It looks like the author is hanging the statement on this:
"Putting it another way, so long as an organic farmer abides by his organic system (production) plan–a plan that an organic certifying agent must approve before granting the farmer organic status–the unintentional presence of GMOs (or, for that matter, prohibited synthetic pesticides) in any amount does not affect the organic status of the farmer’s products or farm."
That much is actually true. IF somehow a certified organic crop of corn was somehow pollinated by a GMO crop of corn, then the organic corn could still be labelled and sold as organic, as long as the organic farmer had followed the processes he was supposed to. But 1. the resulting corn wouldn't really be GMO anyway, even though some people freak out about this scenario, and 2. its not a situation that's likely to happen much because farmers know how to distance their crops so as to produce a product that's true to its labelled variety - and that is true regardless of whether they are growing organic, conventional or GMO.0 -
SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »I buy organic occasionally but only because of taste. Organic bananas and carrots taste much better IMO but I only buy them if the price is close to the same as regular.
You're just stuck in the "It's better because ORGANIC" trend, you're wrong!
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sheermomentum wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Wow. This statement "Some consumers think that the USDA National Organic Program (NOP) requires certified organic products to be free of ingredients from “GMOs,” organisms crafted with molecular techniques of genetic engineering. Wrong again. USDA does not require organic products to be GMO-free. " is very misleading and smacks of propaganda or fear mongering.
It looks like the author is hanging the statement on this:
"Putting it another way, so long as an organic farmer abides by his organic system (production) plan–a plan that an organic certifying agent must approve before granting the farmer organic status–the unintentional presence of GMOs (or, for that matter, prohibited synthetic pesticides) in any amount does not affect the organic status of the farmer’s products or farm."
That much is actually true. IF somehow a certified organic crop of corn was somehow pollinated by a GMO crop of corn, then the organic corn could still be labelled and sold as organic, as long as the organic farmer had followed the processes he was supposed to. But 1. the resulting corn wouldn't really be GMO anyway, even though some people freak out about this scenario, and 2. its not a situation that's likely to happen much because farmers know how to distance their crops so as to produce a product that's true to its labelled variety - and that is true regardless of whether they are growing organic, conventional or GMO.
Exactly. It's just media spin. Not really untrue, but spun to sound like it means something it doesn't. I expected better from Forbes.0 -
Escloflowne wrote: »SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »I buy organic occasionally but only because of taste. Organic bananas and carrots taste much better IMO but I only buy them if the price is close to the same as regular.
You're just stuck in the "It's better because ORGANIC" trend, you're wrong!
ROFL. Well I am from Vancouver after all, so organic ALL THE THINGS!
And who the eff flagged you on that?
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Shalaurise wrote: »I just bought "certified organic" peacotums (apricot-plum-peach hybrid) two weeks ago. Washed off more pesticides off them than I did anything else I bought at that farmers market...
I'd be curious to know how you know this. How did you measure the amount of pesticides washed off? What pesticides were they?
The amount of scrubbing required to remove it from the fruit. When my fruit is supposed to be purpleish and it is more like... lavender... that is a lot of pesticides. Grew. Up. On. An. Orchard.
Random fact. Symbicort smells almost identical to pesticides they put on oranges.
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Nice!Shalaurise wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Shalaurise wrote: »I just bought "certified organic" peacotums (apricot-plum-peach hybrid) two weeks ago. Washed off more pesticides off them than I did anything else I bought at that farmers market...
I'd be curious to know how you know this. How did you measure the amount of pesticides washed off? What pesticides were they?
The amount of scrubbing required to remove it from the fruit. When my fruit is supposed to be purpleish and it is more like... lavender... that is a lot of pesticides. Grew. Up. On. An. Orchard.
Random fact. Symbicort smells almost identical to pesticides they put on oranges.
Next.
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