"Toning" is a deception
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Umm... are you talking about traps???
Because.... weight lifters develop those intentionally... not from... incorrect handstands...
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Therealobi1 wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?
it should be a sticky to atleast reduce the amount of the same posts re toning we have each day.
Make it a sticky! So next time a poster asks,"what can I do to tone?", the thread won't be a barrage of "there's no such thing" or "you can't".0 -
I've been saying this for 20+ years. It's amazing how people will follow anything that is marketed without questioning it's validity.0
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Lol0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
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Therealobi1 wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?
it should be a sticky to atleast reduce the amount of the same posts re toning we have each day.
Make it a sticky! So next time a poster asks,"what can I do to tone?", the thread won't be a barrage of "there's no such thing" or "you can't".
although i do think that this is the general 'tone' of the thread, if you read more careful i think its basically pointed out that the real misnomer is when you apply the term to exercise itself.
doing higher reps, lower weight to 'tone' muscle is a myth
saying one wants to 'tone up' or look more tone is really more a matter of semantics. If it offends you in this case, fine, but they are really two different things.0 -
Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Uh.... do you mean the trapezius muscle which everyone has?
They just tend to be more developed in individuals that actually lift weights...
Please don't talk about things that you don't understand.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
so....you're saying that words don't have meaning?0 -
Thanks so much for your help. I think I understand now.No_Finish_Line wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »
although there are some instances where you can actually build mass while in a deficit, like if you are brand new to weight training...
I think what's mostly going on is the fact that you can condition a muscle (more endurance and even strength) without actually adding muscle mass.
you see that you are lifting more but there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between mass building and strength
I need the weight training for dummies version, please explain the difference between building and strengthening a muscle?
I guess its going to have to take someone more knowledgeable then I to truly give you a scientific explanation.
This is pretty much the extent of my knowledge:
as you train with a muscle, you establish a better neurological pathway. Your brain gets better at recruiting existing muscle fibers. more muscle fibers actively working means you can lift more weight. so while you're not adding muscle mass, you're using more of what you have and therefore you can do more work.
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Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
so....you're saying that words don't have meaning?
No I think you misunderstand me or I'm not putting it across very well. The opposite.
A word can have different meanings to different people...um...."fit" has very different meanings to different people...I'm not sure that is a good example but it's late here
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Glad you posted this niner. There has been a sudden influx (although it seems to happen every spring/summer) from folks who "don't want to lose any more body fat, but don't want to put on muscle. Just want to tone". Thereby demonstrating that they have no idea what they are asking. I think we all know what folks want by saying they want to look tone but it's worth a thread to clear all the misconceptions.0
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
I read this and now I need a snickers.0 -
I work in the supplement shop and I hear this word all the time; it drives me crazy but they don't want to hear that truth they just want to product sold them so it makes it easy to do so. It's just like when I tell them how I lost X amount of weight in a short period of time, they don't want to hear diet and exercise, they want to know what product I took and at that point I can pretty much sell them anything that won't harm them of course0
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From Cambridge Dictionary:
Cambridgepiperdown44 wrote: »Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
tone noun (TIGHTNESS)
› the healthy tightness of the body, especially the muscles:
Merriam Webster
Definition of TONUS
: tone 9a; especially : a state of partial contraction characteristic of normal muscle
tonenoun us /toʊn/
tone noun (VOICE EXPRESSION)
› a quality in the voice, esp. one that expresses the speaker’s feelings, often toward the person being addressed: His tone was apologetic.
tone noun (MOOD)
› the mood or general feeling of something: The tone of his remarks was confident and reassuring.› literature The tone of a piece of writing expresses the writer's attitude toward the subject or the reader: The angry tone of this essay reveals her feelings about the war.
tone noun (SOUND)
› [usually sing] a musical, mechanical, or voice sound on one note: If you wish to leave a message, please wait until after the tone.
tone noun (MUSICAL QUALITY)
› music the quality of sound of a musical instrument or singing voice› music A tone is also a step .
tone noun (FIRM QUALITY)
› (esp. of muscles) the quality of being healthy and firm: Swimming helps to develop good muscle tone.
tone noun (COLOR)
› art [C] a feature of color related to its brightness or the amount of light it reflects
Notice it doesn't say "Swimming helps to develop good "tone" or "toning".
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Wasn't saying that at all. Back in the day there was a commercial showing a kid drinking milk a getting as tall as a 6'0".No_Finish_Line wrote: »
Incorrect. Length of muscles are determined when you're conceived. You can't lengthen them or "bunch" them up any more than one can increase one's height by hopefully drinking more milk (remember that commercial). It's information like this from yoga instructors that need to be refuted because physiology doesn't actually work that way. If a weight lifter looks "bunched" up, it's because they have more muscle in their arms than one who does yoga. That's all.Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
If you don't think nutrition has anything to do with gene expression, then you feel asleep in high school biology
Reality is that if you're 15 years old and 5'2" and ancestors are just about 5' tall, you could drink all the milk you wanted hoping your bones would "extend", but the likely probability of that happening.....................about .000000000000000000000000000000001%
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IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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bump0
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From Cambridge Dictionary:
Cambridgepiperdown44 wrote: »Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
tone noun (TIGHTNESS)
› the healthy tightness of the body, especially the muscles:
Merriam Webster
Definition of TONUS
: tone 9a; especially : a state of partial contraction characteristic of normal muscle
tonenoun us /toʊn/
tone noun (VOICE EXPRESSION)
› a quality in the voice, esp. one that expresses the speaker’s feelings, often toward the person being addressed: His tone was apologetic.
tone noun (MOOD)
› the mood or general feeling of something: The tone of his remarks was confident and reassuring.› literature The tone of a piece of writing expresses the writer's attitude toward the subject or the reader: The angry tone of this essay reveals her feelings about the war.
tone noun (SOUND)
› [usually sing] a musical, mechanical, or voice sound on one note: If you wish to leave a message, please wait until after the tone.
tone noun (MUSICAL QUALITY)
› music the quality of sound of a musical instrument or singing voice› music A tone is also a step .
tone noun (FIRM QUALITY)
› (esp. of muscles) the quality of being healthy and firm: Swimming helps to develop good muscle tone.
tone noun (COLOR)
› art [C] a feature of color related to its brightness or the amount of light it reflects
Notice it doesn't say "Swimming helps to develop good "tone" or "toning".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
so you can post definitions too. I also pulled mine from the dictionary. point is that tone and thereby toning is in the dictionary
conotatively, getting toned just means looking fitter and having a little muscle definition. jumping on people for using the word, telling them it isn't a thing, is counterproductive. and frankly, rather mean and unnecessary.
you also only posted the nouns, to tone is a verb0 -
From Cambridge Dictionary:
Cambridgepiperdown44 wrote: »Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
tone noun (TIGHTNESS)
› the healthy tightness of the body, especially the muscles:
Merriam Webster
Definition of TONUS
: tone 9a; especially : a state of partial contraction characteristic of normal muscle
tonenoun us /toʊn/
tone noun (VOICE EXPRESSION)
› a quality in the voice, esp. one that expresses the speaker’s feelings, often toward the person being addressed: His tone was apologetic.
tone noun (MOOD)
› the mood or general feeling of something: The tone of his remarks was confident and reassuring.› literature The tone of a piece of writing expresses the writer's attitude toward the subject or the reader: The angry tone of this essay reveals her feelings about the war.
tone noun (SOUND)
› [usually sing] a musical, mechanical, or voice sound on one note: If you wish to leave a message, please wait until after the tone.
tone noun (MUSICAL QUALITY)
› music the quality of sound of a musical instrument or singing voice› music A tone is also a step .
tone noun (FIRM QUALITY)
› (esp. of muscles) the quality of being healthy and firm: Swimming helps to develop good muscle tone.
tone noun (COLOR)
› art [C] a feature of color related to its brightness or the amount of light it reflects
Notice it doesn't say "Swimming helps to develop good "tone" or "toning".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
so you can post definitions too. I also pulled mine from the dictionary. point is that tone and thereby toning is in the dictionary
conotatively, getting toned just means looking fitter and having a little muscle definition. jumping on people for using the word, telling them it isn't a thing, is counterproductive. and frankly, rather mean and unnecessary.
you also only posted the nouns, to tone is a verb
Toning is a very subjective word like clean eating.0 -
Quoting the dictionary to discuss words using in a technical fashion is not a good idea. The dictionary will also call you a computer if you can do 2+2=4 (defn: one who computes), but it would be a worthless definition for discussing if you can have Windows 8 installed into your brain.0
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