Using Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) to Track Diet Progress
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ericGold15 wrote: »
I'll guess that TDEE is shorthand for 'total daily energy expenditure' ?sheldonklein wrote: »You lose or gain weight based on whether you are under or over your TDEE.
If so, do you agree that a good approximation of that number is equal to
Exercise + BMR ?
And that your NET energy lost or gain for the day is Exercise + BMR - food ?
We report food and exercise; the missing variable is BMR.
So your profile indicates your a physician. NEAT is missing above and TEF. So, TDEE=EAT(exercise) + NEAT(non exercise and/or your daily job) + TEF + BMR. NEAT is what most people can change and do, some add EAT(exercise) and some try to impact their TEF through changes in their diet. And, for me, if I set my calorie goal as my BMR I'd be at a daily deficit of about 1,000 calories daily. My preference is to lose weight slowly and learn habits to sustain the lose. If I want to be miserable in the process and increase the likelihood of putting the weight back on I'd attempt your method. Good luck.0 -
ericGold15 wrote: »
I set my BMR as my calorie goal. Is that what you meant ?20yearsyounger wrote: »OP, I understand where you are going with this as I did it myself. However, I used the BMR at my goal weight.
so you perform your daily activities while in a coma?0 -
so you perform your daily activities while in a coma?ericGold15 wrote: »
I set my BMR as my calorie goal. Is that what you meant ?20yearsyounger wrote: »OP, I understand where you are going with this as I did it myself. However, I used the BMR at my goal weight.
Almost
My work is equivalent to a desk job, and I am generally pretty sedentary at home if I am not exercising. If my daily activities were considerably more I would add them to my daily calorie goal.
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I love to overthink my weight loss too! It's probably because I miss doing thermodynamics problems. I've tried eating at around my BMR, and after two days all I feel like doing is staying in bed. Perhaps it's because my activity level is fairly high. I've set my calorie goal at a deficit of about 1750 kcal/week taking my daily activity and my exercise into account. Because bodies are weird, I lost no weight at all for about 3 weeks, and suddenly dropped 2.5 pounds in one week, which all averages out to a bit better than I'd expected.
If you're sedentary, I can't recommend finding non-exercise ways to be more active highly enough. I made my desk into a standing desk, shortly before I suddenly started losing weight. Also, although I didn't use this calculator for my total daily energy expenditure, it's great for getting a picture of how much time you spend sitting, sleeping, walking, and engaging in strenuous exercise. Good luck!
http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced0 -
I am not suggesting a diet routine. The use of BMR as the daily calorie goal is only an accounting trick to make it easy to to see the net calorie change over a period of time._Terrapin_ wrote: »If I want to be miserable in the process and increase the likelihood of putting the weight back on I'd attempt your method. Good luck.
If your routine daily activities are substantial, it makes sense to me to add them to the daily calorie goal.
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I am NOT advocating that people eat an amount equal to their BMR. Actually, I'm not advocating anything.lithezebra wrote: »I've tried eating at around my BMR, and after two days all I feel like doing is staying in bed. Perhaps it's because my activity level is fairly high. I've set my calorie goal at a deficit of about 1750 kcal/week taking my daily activity and my exercise into account. Because bodies are weird, I lost no weight at all for about 3 weeks, and suddenly dropped 2.5 pounds in one week, which all averages out to a bit better than I'd expected.
I am saying that putting the daily calorie goal equal to the BMR makes it easy to track net calories for people who are fairly sedentary outside of exercise. If routine daily activities are more than sedentary then it makes sense to add them to the daily calorie goal and then gain the same ease of net calorie tracking.
Your story rings a bell. I have been the same weight for two weeks now despite a net calorie deficit of some 15k Calories. I presume the difference is water accumulation although I really don't know. Perhaps I am rehydrating my oh so neglected muscle mass. In any case I can see the adipose tissue shrink by the week so I am not concerned.
I look forward to the correction
Thanks for your comment
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Attempting to do this math to six decimal points of precision is a fools errand. BMR is a guess. TDEE is a guess. Calorie consumption is a guess. Useful? You bet. Worth considering the contribution of TEF? Absolutely not.
After all, it takes a few thousand calories over or under to even move the needle. My calculated MSJ BMR is 1513. MFP pads your BMR based on your subjective assessment of your activity level (set to sedentary in my case) and calls the result "calories burned from normal daily activity"—1,709. Garmin computes my MSJ BMR based on an out of date weight and adds a 20% premium to that to arrive at what they call my BMR of 1,807. Which one is right? None of them are right. They are based on different assumptions and used in different ways. Does it matter? Not so much. I presume that, if I eat more than about 12,000 calories in a week, I better be doing some intentional exercise to burn those calories up and then some. I still have 5 lbs. to lose.
Thanks for the NBCI link Eric. It appears to be that the classic Forbes equation (3,500 kcal/pound) works great for obese people and, frankly, most thin people could care less about any of this.0 -
Thanks for the excellent comment.fyoung1111 wrote: »Thanks for the NBCI link Eric. It appears to be that the classic Forbes equation (3,500 kcal/pound) works great for obese people and, frankly, most thin people could care less about any of this.
Regarding the Forbes equation, my suspicion is that it works well for obese people because they are losing weight by reducing food (calorie) intake. Then when they burn 9000 Calories they remove some 1.1 Kg adipose tissue as an average. Weight reduction with a large (and perhaps increasing) exercise component is going to be more complicated and non-linear due to fluid shifts into the muscle compartment. If it were possible to track *fat* (as opposed to adipose tissue) we would find that a Kg loss requires 9000 Cal energy deficit.
This is somewhat of an academic point for people who want to lose weight, but it is of interest to people who focus on fat reduction.0 -
Fyoung1111,
I concur about 'TEF.' Forget it.
Much better places to look for the unrecognized variation in our accounting are the methods used to determine food constituents and amounts, and their bio-availability.0 -
You will probably find this interesting: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-20
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Thanks, and you are right. I read the publication Friday.fyoung1111 wrote: »You will probably find this interesting: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-2
It has gotten a lot of media coverage although little analysis. I personally am not willing to conclude anything about a diet that lasts 6 days.
As for methods, I hope they follow-up their pilot study with one that measures fat loss rather than gross weight.
My individual bias is to eat a balanced diet of vegetables, protein, mostly complex carbs and low-moderate healthy fats. In general though, I avoid the circus of 'good' this or 'bad' that.
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sheldonklein wrote: »Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, you misunderstand the relationship between BMR and weight loss. Simply stated, there is no relationship. You lose or gain weight based on whether you are under or over your TDEE. BMR is a factor in calculating TDEE, but otherwise it is irrelevant to weight loss.
If you eat at your BMR, you are guaranteed to lose weight, unless you're in a coma.
That's the connection.
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This link works better.
See below Thank you Mr Knight 0 -
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Just in case your statement is referencing my OP, let me state, again, that I was not recommending that caloric intake equal BMR. Or any specific intake for that matter. Or any diet.If you eat at your BMR, you are guaranteed to lose weight, unless you're in a coma.
ALL I tried to show was that the MFP program will do the arithmetic for you and show net calories if you set the daily calorie goal to the BMR. It is a simple notion, posted for new dieters who may not be familiar with BMR. The OP also includes the disclaimer that this is true for people who are sedentary outside of exercise; people with substantial daily activities (calorie wise) can add that amount to the daily goal for the same useful accounting.
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sheldonklein wrote: »Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, you misunderstand the relationship between BMR and weight loss. Simply stated, there is no relationship. You lose or gain weight based on whether you are under or over your TDEE. BMR is a factor in calculating TDEE, but otherwise it is irrelevant to weight loss.
If you eat at your BMR, you are guaranteed to lose weight, unless you're in a coma.
That's the connection.
Touché0 -
I am an accountant and love to play with numbers. But your calculations remind me of coworkers who spend $150 of time to solve 15 cent problems. Unnecessary and a waste of time.0
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sheldonklein wrote: »Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, you misunderstand the relationship between BMR and weight loss. Simply stated, there is no relationship. You lose or gain weight based on whether you are under or over your TDEE. BMR is a factor in calculating TDEE, but otherwise it is irrelevant to weight loss.
If you eat at your BMR, you are guaranteed to lose weight, unless you're in a coma.
That's the connection.
yup, what he said.0 -
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1. ClickI am an accountant and love to play with numbers. But your calculations remind me of coworkers who spend $150 of time to solve 15 cent problems. Unnecessary and a waste of time.
2. Type in age, weight and height, and pick a sex
3. Copy BMR number that pops up
4. Paste that number into MFP's daily calorie goal.
Done.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this is easy -- even for an accountant.
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