After only 3 weeks, I've dropped an entire pound!!! Woo Hoo!!
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And just in case you missed it, I thought I'd repost this. Since it's my best advice until/unless you weigh food.
So back in the days when phones were dumb, I followed the ADA diet (even though I wasn't diabetic). Maybe that would help you. Instead of calories and weight, it uses cups and portions and "exchanges." Maybe that will be more manageable for you and you'll find better luck. You can find books on exchanges in the library and in bookstores. Some foods even include the exchanges on their nutrition label.
glycemic.com/DiabeticExchange/The%20Diabetic%20Exchange%20List.pdf0 -
purelyprimitives wrote: »Maintenance for me, as silken555 shows above is 2300 cals/day. I eat 2 meals a day and one or two small snacks. We've been here before, and I refuse to believe that I'm off by 1000 calories a day. This just isn't happening. I'm not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me so we can just leave it at that.
JSF.0 -
purelyprimitives wrote: »The World's Most Accurate calculator above says I can eat 2057/day to lose 30 pounds in 5 years and I'll still be obese. Sounds like a great plan.....
Regardless, did you know that I haven't gained 1 pound in the last 10 months?? I bounced up or down a pound or two but I weight exactly what I did last October. And this, even though I've attended many holiday celebrations and birthdays where I definitely ate much more than my TDEE. How do you explain this?
But how long did it take you to get fat? Pretty sure you didn't wake up one morning, look in the mirror and say "HOLY $*!^! I gained 100 pounds overnight!"
Just because some calculator says that's how much you will lose doesn't mean that's all you CAN lose.
Oh and an even better, and easier, plan would be to keep whining and coming up with excuses instead of just doing it...
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purelyprimitives wrote: »Maintenance for me, as silken555 shows above is 2300 cals/day. I eat 2 meals a day and one or two small snacks. We've been here before, and I refuse to believe that I'm off by 1000 calories a day. This just isn't happening. I'm not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me so we can just leave it at that.
Just because you refuse to believe something doesn't make it true for you. If you are not losing you are not in a deficit. Period.
It doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, the point is if you are maintaining your weight then you are eating at maintenance.
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purelyprimitives wrote: »I swore I wouldn't be back but here's Scooby's Calorie Calculator results based on just what you have shown but with only 3 meals a day (even though I only eat 2) instead of 6 -
So after 5 YEARS of dieting I'll finally arrive at my goal of being.......obese???
Right of the bottom of the Scooby graph, it says, in bold letters, "Note: When your weight drops by more than 5lbs (2kg) you must recalculate your numbers!"
So yes, if you didn't adjust your input as you drop weight, you would indeed plateau.
(Once again, you appear to be looking for reasons not to do this ... )
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purelyprimitives wrote: »Maintenance for me, as silken555 shows above is 2300 cals/day. I eat 2 meals a day and one or two small snacks. We've been here before, and I refuse to believe that I'm off by 1000 calories a day. This just isn't happening. I'm not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me so we can just leave it at that.
You're right ... the rest of us who have a) figured out how this works for ourselves, and b) have helped many others through it, don't have a clue what we're talking about. Here's your prize:
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Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:
"Beginning in middle age, men’s testosterone levels begin a steady decline, culminating in the so-called “andropause,” a state defined as partial androgen deficiency.19,20 On the same time-scale, men begin to gain weight as fat, and to lose lean muscle mass. It’s now abundantly clear that these two parallel processes are related—that is, the decline in testosterone levels is a direct cause of middle-aged men’s “battle of the bulge.”21 That’s a literal statement: age-associated testosterone decline is closely associated with deposition of deep abdominal fat, a component of the metabolic syndrome.22"
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2010/10/low-testosterone-promotes-abdominal-obesity-aging-men/page-01
Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....0 -
So instead you find 80 different excuses and assume they must all apply to you? That is more likely? Hey, keep telling yourself whatever you need to, in order to sleep at night. I do not believe for a second that you cannot procure a food scale. If you prefer to stay fat, just do it already. Plenty of excuses to keep you company along the way as you continue to NOT meet your health and fitness goals0
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The only myopic mindset I'm seeing is yours. You refuse to take the blinkers off and at least TRY something that has been suggested. Science applies to everyone. It may require an adjustment or two now and then...which we've all mentioned BTW...but for the most part it's CICO.
There are many health factors that can potentially affect metabolism. Unless you actually go out and get tested you'll never know if they contribute to your case. You can't just assume you have this or that. Until you choose to take that step and get tested rather than make assumptions, the proven way to lose weight is to accurately weigh/measure your food...you don't even have to exercise a drop! Just weigh solid food with a proper scale, use measuring cups for liquids, take the two minutes to properly build recipes and you will find out just how off your count is.
It really is that easy.0 -
purelyprimitives wrote: »Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:
"Beginning in middle age, men’s testosterone levels begin a steady decline, culminating in the so-called “andropause,” a state defined as partial androgen deficiency.19,20 On the same time-scale, men begin to gain weight as fat, and to lose lean muscle mass. It’s now abundantly clear that these two parallel processes are related—that is, the decline in testosterone levels is a direct cause of middle-aged men’s “battle of the bulge.”21 That’s a literal statement: age-associated testosterone decline is closely associated with deposition of deep abdominal fat, a component of the metabolic syndrome.22"
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2010/10/low-testosterone-promotes-abdominal-obesity-aging-men/page-01
Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....
That's a total bastardisation of the facts
Visceral fat increases as we age - true
Our TDEE decreases as we age due to less active lifestyles (so move more) and loss of muscle (so lift heavy)
But it boiled down to calorie consumption and you're eating too much
So what if it is harder at 70 than 50 - you just have to use your ornery stubbornness to work with what you've got
You're telling yourself it's ok and you're living an old mans life as a result and risking your later years being less healthy than they might be ...just because you are too lazy to fix yourself
I told myself I'd prefer to go kicking and screaming into old age and I'm going to try to emulate my amazing parents and be fit in my 80s and 90s
You are finding every half-baked excuse under the sun
Yes it's harder at 69 than at 29 ...so what ? If you keep your attitude you stay fat.
You're really far too old to be acting like a child0 -
This is almost funny.
I was trying to find a creative way to "skirt" community guidelines and suggest to @purelyprimitives that since nothing else is working for him, he should try moving and eating for a few months just like the volunteers in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment did!
Because, well, obviously, the Minnesota Starvation experiment would be a VLCD and well below community guidelines!
And here I discover that @purelyprimitives really IS a special snowflake!
Because the dude already eats LESS than the Minnesota Starvation experiment subjects ever did!
They were getting 1560 calories a day -- he only eats 1200, and still he cannot lose weight!0 -
Eating less than you should lowers your metabolic rate after a while. If you are eating less than half your suggested calorie intake, you arent doing yourself any favors. Change your goal to -2lbs/week and stick to that. Are you exercising? Starting a routine could really help. A lot of it is also what you eat. Start taking vitamins. Weight loss is not just about eating far less calories than you should. You will be tired and not have any energy.0
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purelyprimitives wrote: »Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:
"Beginning in middle age, men’s testosterone levels begin a steady decline, culminating in the so-called “andropause,” a state defined as partial androgen deficiency.19,20 On the same time-scale, men begin to gain weight as fat, and to lose lean muscle mass. It’s now abundantly clear that these two parallel processes are related—that is, the decline in testosterone levels is a direct cause of middle-aged men’s “battle of the bulge.”21 That’s a literal statement: age-associated testosterone decline is closely associated with deposition of deep abdominal fat, a component of the metabolic syndrome.22"
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2010/10/low-testosterone-promotes-abdominal-obesity-aging-men/page-01
Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....
If you go back to page 7, you'll see I posted the following:Let's see, using the Scooby calculator for my height, my university age weight, and a variety of ages, I get the following maintenance calories for sedentary activity level:
age
21: 2200 cals
age 52: 2000 cals
age 65: 1900 cals
So, I can do two things.
I can look at that list, say that it's inevitable that I'm going to get heavier, and just live with it (which is pretty much what I did for the last 15-20 years), or
I can use those numbers, set my targets appropriately, up my activity level, and shed that accumulated fat (which is what I've been doing since Jan 2014 - have you seen my profile pic?)
The choice is yours ... I hope that when I'm 65 (and beyond), I continue to follow option 2, and not languish with option 1.
from which you clearly missed the following lines:So, I can do two things.- I can look at that list, say that it's inevitable that I'm going to get heavier, and just live with it (which is pretty much what I did for the last 15-20 years), or
- I can use those numbers, set my targets appropriately, up my activity level, and shed that accumulated fat (which is what I've been doing since Jan 2014 - have you seen my profile pic?)
So, you can a) continue carry on believing that the weight gain is inevitable, as I once did, or b) get off your stubborn *** and follow the experience, advice and success of everyone else who has taken time to try to help you, and this time next year be posting your own success story.
What saddens me is that at one point, I was ready to offer to send you a digital scale, since you (briefly) seemed to get it, but you just couldn't afford the outlay. Now it's clear to me that I'd just be throwing my money away.
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I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.0
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christinev297 wrote: »I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine
Food intake vs TDEE0 -
christinev297 wrote: »I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine
Food intake vs TDEE
yeah i know what you're saying. They just look like starving refugees who get fed a lot less than 1500 calories..
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You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christinechristinev297 wrote: »I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
Food intake vs TDEE
And yet, even that was surprising. They seemed to have been imposing a diet that was no more onerous than multiple diets I've seen on MFP.
The "standardized" TDEE they aimed for (if I understood correctly) was around 3200 (coincidently I personally used to aim for that; though now I am aiming for 3100 instead!)
The big difference, of course, are the starting points.
Starting this at Obese III is not the same as starting this at a normal weigh. And normal weight in the 40's was probably mid, not top of the normal BMI range.
And of course they were fed starchy carbs.
So: normal weight + 50% TDEE deficit + starchy carbs.
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I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.0
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Blueseraphchaos wrote: »I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.
Either- It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
- We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there
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Blueseraphchaos wrote: »I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.
Either- It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
- We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there
I guess so. I mean, i haven't lost any weight, and i didn't have to go to the doctor to figure out was wrong with me, so i guess i don't know what he's talking about. -end sarcasm.
At any rate, i definitely find it sad when someone is so determined to blind himself to the truth and take the time to research excuses rather than just TRY THE ADVICE. But hey....whatever....i can help people who WANT help, or i can waste my time on someone who doesn't want help.0 -
purelyprimitives wrote: »Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:
Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....
Rereading your response, I would say the following:- I accept that as we age, our metabolism slows down
- If our metabolism slows down, we have 2 choices ... eat less, or exercise more (or both) ... to maintain the balance
- If you eat fewer calories than you burn, you lose weight
- If you eat as many calories as you burn, you maintain weight
- If you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight
- I accept that whatever you are consuming right now balances off with your burn, and that is why you are maintaining weight in the 230s.
What I do not accept is that you are consuming only 1200 calories, regardless of whether you are eating 2 meals or 4.
You are not weighing, you are not measuring; you are guessing, estimating, eye-balling; in short, your calories-in are inaccurate. When you finally get your scale, and you measure every last gram of food, and you log it all accurately in your diary, then we can take the conversation to the next level.
Until then, you are like the comedienne in the video previously linked. You are eating more calories than you realise.
Edited to correct typos/grammar.
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Blueseraphchaos wrote: »Blueseraphchaos wrote: »I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.
Either- It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
- We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there
I guess so. I mean, i haven't lost any weight, and i didn't have to go to the doctor to figure out was wrong with me, so i guess i don't know what he's talking about. -end sarcasm.
At any rate, i definitely find it sad when someone is so determined to blind himself to the truth and take the time to research excuses rather than just TRY THE ADVICE. But hey....whatever....i can help people who WANT help, or i can waste my time on someone who doesn't want help.
Why can't you do both??
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine
Food intake vs TDEE
yeah i know what you're saying. They just look like starving refugees who get fed a lot less than 1500 calories..
They were exercising a whole bunch. They were at a 2000 calorie deficit or so, I don't remember.0 -
"No matter how much they exercise or how little they eat, these men are unable to shed this excess weight that accumulates in their belly. Published studies have shown that low testosterone and obesity reinforce each other, trapping men in a spiral of weight gain and hormonal imbalance.1-5"
I guess no one bothered to actually read the article or referenced footnotes. I am scheduled next month to have my testosterone checked. The results will vindicate either me or you. Stay tuned.....0 -
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So, you can a) continue carry on believing that the weight gain is inevitable, as I once did, or b) get off your stubborn *** and follow the experience, advice and success of everyone else who has taken time to try to help you, and this time next year be posting your own success story.
What saddens me is that at one point, I was ready to offer to send you a digital scale, since you (briefly) seemed to get it, but you just couldn't afford the outlay. Now it's clear to me that I'd just be throwing my money away.
That was a very kind thought and shows you are a caring person, really.
Regarding the Scooby calculator, I know he compensates for diminished BMR but do you know if he compensates for declining testosterone levels?? Just curious.
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*staying tuned to see the results of testosterone testing*
I feel sorry for you, Primitive. You must have the worst luck ever to have every single one of these reasons to not lose weight. How you can even move without breaking limbs is beyond me.0 -
purelyprimitives wrote: »"No matter how much they exercise or how little they eat, these men are unable to shed this excess weight that accumulates in their belly. Published studies have shown that low testosterone and obesity reinforce each other, trapping men in a spiral of weight gain and hormonal imbalance.1-5"
I guess no one bothered to actually read the article or referenced footnotes. I am scheduled next month to have my testosterone checked. The results will vindicate either me or you. Stay tuned.....
It still boils down to CI<CO
There is no vindication
The only person invested in your story is you
Everyone else is trying to help you
Testosterone is related to musculature ...again we are back to lifting heavy0 -
My eightysix-year-old grandfather was diagnosed with type II diabetes around forty years ago and had to switch his regime drastically. He tells me it is a daily struggle still, but he has been maintaining a good healthy weight for years now. He only drinks black coffee, water, soup, or a hot buttermilk drink we call pap. Never spreads his sandwiches with mayo or butter, eats a maximum of four slices of bread for breakfast or dinner, and only puts one slice of cheese or charcuterie between two slices of bread. He does not stack his plate high, and never takes seconds. No snacks apart from his four o'clock cheese sandwich. His daily excercise is his morning walk to the cemetery and his afternoon bicycle ride around the village. What he does is CICO in action, but without a calorie counting app. And as said, even after forty years, he still finds it a struggle. He misses a good glass of beer, chocolate, cake.... and usually wants to eat more than he does, but restrains himself. I've grown up knowing his restrictions, but only found out recently that it does not come effortlessly to him. OP, as you do not own a food scale, and it is not easy for you to log all ingrediënts seperately, you can perhaps try his way. Take a look at your portions, and make them smaller, take a look at your spreads and make them less calorie dense, take a look at your liquids and drink less calories.....0
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Able to schedule/procure testosterone testing but not a food scale?0
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This discussion has been closed.
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