After only 3 weeks, I've dropped an entire pound!!! Woo Hoo!!

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  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,930 Member
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    This is almost funny.

    I was trying to find a creative way to "skirt" community guidelines and suggest to @purelyprimitives that since nothing else is working for him, he should try moving and eating for a few months just like the volunteers in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment did!

    Because, well, obviously, the Minnesota Starvation experiment would be a VLCD and well below community guidelines!

    And here I discover that @purelyprimitives really IS a special snowflake!

    Because the dude already eats LESS than the Minnesota Starvation experiment subjects ever did!

    They were getting 1560 calories a day -- he only eats 1200, and still he cannot lose weight!
  • venusrhymeswith
    venusrhymeswith Posts: 5 Member
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    Eating less than you should lowers your metabolic rate after a while. If you are eating less than half your suggested calorie intake, you arent doing yourself any favors. Change your goal to -2lbs/week and stick to that. Are you exercising? Starting a routine could really help. A lot of it is also what you eat. Start taking vitamins. Weight loss is not just about eating far less calories than you should. You will be tired and not have any energy.
  • flatlndr
    flatlndr Posts: 713 Member
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    purelyprimitives wrote: »
    Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:

    "Beginning in middle age, men’s testosterone levels begin a steady decline, culminating in the so-called “andropause,” a state defined as partial androgen deficiency.19,20 On the same time-scale, men begin to gain weight as fat, and to lose lean muscle mass. It’s now abundantly clear that these two parallel processes are related—that is, the decline in testosterone levels is a direct cause of middle-aged men’s “battle of the bulge.”21 That’s a literal statement: age-associated testosterone decline is closely associated with deposition of deep abdominal fat, a component of the metabolic syndrome.22"

    http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2010/10/low-testosterone-promotes-abdominal-obesity-aging-men/page-01

    Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....

    If you go back to page 7, you'll see I posted the following:
    Let's see, using the Scooby calculator for my height, my university age weight, and a variety of ages, I get the following maintenance calories for sedentary activity level:

    age
    21: 2200 cals
    age 52: 2000 cals
    age 65: 1900 cals

    So, I can do two things.
    I can look at that list, say that it's inevitable that I'm going to get heavier, and just live with it (which is pretty much what I did for the last 15-20 years), or
    I can use those numbers, set my targets appropriately, up my activity level, and shed that accumulated fat (which is what I've been doing since Jan 2014 - have you seen my profile pic?)

    The choice is yours ... I hope that when I'm 65 (and beyond), I continue to follow option 2, and not languish with option 1.

    from which you clearly missed the following lines:
    So, I can do two things.
    1. I can look at that list, say that it's inevitable that I'm going to get heavier, and just live with it (which is pretty much what I did for the last 15-20 years), or
    2. I can use those numbers, set my targets appropriately, up my activity level, and shed that accumulated fat (which is what I've been doing since Jan 2014 - have you seen my profile pic?)

    So, you can a) continue carry on believing that the weight gain is inevitable, as I once did, or b) get off your stubborn *** and follow the experience, advice and success of everyone else who has taken time to try to help you, and this time next year be posting your own success story.

    What saddens me is that at one point, I was ready to offer to send you a digital scale, since you (briefly) seemed to get it, but you just couldn't afford the outlay. Now it's clear to me that I'd just be throwing my money away.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.

    You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine

    Food intake vs TDEE
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.

    You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine

    Food intake vs TDEE

    yeah i know what you're saying. They just look like starving refugees who get fed a lot less than 1500 calories..

  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,930 Member
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.
    You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine
    Food intake vs TDEE

    And yet, even that was surprising. They seemed to have been imposing a diet that was no more onerous than multiple diets I've seen on MFP.

    The "standardized" TDEE they aimed for (if I understood correctly) was around 3200 (coincidently I personally used to aim for that; though now I am aiming for 3100 instead!)

    The big difference, of course, are the starting points.

    Starting this at Obese III is not the same as starting this at a normal weigh. And normal weight in the 40's was probably mid, not top of the normal BMI range.

    And of course they were fed starchy carbs.

    So: normal weight + 50% TDEE deficit + starchy carbs.

  • Blueseraphchaos
    Blueseraphchaos Posts: 843 Member
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    I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.
  • flatlndr
    flatlndr Posts: 713 Member
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    Blueseraphchaos wrote: »
    I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.

    Either
    1. It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
    2. We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there



  • Blueseraphchaos
    Blueseraphchaos Posts: 843 Member
    edited August 2015
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    flatlndr wrote: »
    Blueseraphchaos wrote: »
    I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.

    Either
    1. It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
    2. We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there



    I guess so. I mean, i haven't lost any weight, and i didn't have to go to the doctor to figure out was wrong with me, so i guess i don't know what he's talking about. -end sarcasm.

    At any rate, i definitely find it sad when someone is so determined to blind himself to the truth and take the time to research excuses rather than just TRY THE ADVICE. But hey....whatever....i can help people who WANT help, or i can waste my time on someone who doesn't want help.
  • flatlndr
    flatlndr Posts: 713 Member
    edited August 2015
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    purelyprimitives wrote: »
    Here's yet another 'excuse' for why I may not be losing weight:

    Flatlndr is only 15 years behind me and will ultimately find that it will become increasingly harder to keep the weight off unless he resorts to testosterone supplementation. It seems that everyone here has a myopic mindset that all bodies are identical and all respond to weight loss in the exact same way. Nothing could be further from the truth.....

    Rereading your response, I would say the following:
    • I accept that as we age, our metabolism slows down
    • If our metabolism slows down, we have 2 choices ... eat less, or exercise more (or both) ... to maintain the balance
    • If you eat fewer calories than you burn, you lose weight
    • If you eat as many calories as you burn, you maintain weight
    • If you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight
    • I accept that whatever you are consuming right now balances off with your burn, and that is why you are maintaining weight in the 230s.

    What I do not accept is that you are consuming only 1200 calories, regardless of whether you are eating 2 meals or 4.

    You are not weighing, you are not measuring; you are guessing, estimating, eye-balling; in short, your calories-in are inaccurate. When you finally get your scale, and you measure every last gram of food, and you log it all accurately in your diary, then we can take the conversation to the next level.

    Until then, you are like the comedienne in the video previously linked. You are eating more calories than you realise.

    Edited to correct typos/grammar.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    Blueseraphchaos wrote: »
    flatlndr wrote: »
    Blueseraphchaos wrote: »
    I can't believe this thread is continuing after we've determined that this person is a speshul snoflake who can't ever lose weight even though he is everything perfectly correct.

    Either
    1. It's a contest to see who can be more stubborn, him or us, or ...
    2. We're all really hoping he comes around to appreciate our success, and we are determined to get him to join us there



    I guess so. I mean, i haven't lost any weight, and i didn't have to go to the doctor to figure out was wrong with me, so i guess i don't know what he's talking about. -end sarcasm.

    At any rate, i definitely find it sad when someone is so determined to blind himself to the truth and take the time to research excuses rather than just TRY THE ADVICE. But hey....whatever....i can help people who WANT help, or i can waste my time on someone who doesn't want help.

    Why can't you do both??

  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    christinev297 wrote: »
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    christinev297 wrote: »
    I'm amazed that those men from the Minnesota starvation experiment ended up looking so emaciated eating 1500 calories a day. Looking at them, I would have guessed under 1000 calories.

    You have been here far too long to still be thinking like that Christine

    Food intake vs TDEE

    yeah i know what you're saying. They just look like starving refugees who get fed a lot less than 1500 calories..

    They were exercising a whole bunch. They were at a 2000 calorie deficit or so, I don't remember.
  • purelyprimitives
    purelyprimitives Posts: 58 Member
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    "No matter how much they exercise or how little they eat, these men are unable to shed this excess weight that accumulates in their belly. Published studies have shown that low testosterone and obesity reinforce each other, trapping men in a spiral of weight gain and hormonal imbalance.1-5"

    I guess no one bothered to actually read the article or referenced footnotes. I am scheduled next month to have my testosterone checked. The results will vindicate either me or you. Stay tuned.....
  • purelyprimitives
    purelyprimitives Posts: 58 Member
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    flatlndr wrote: »
    [

    So, you can a) continue carry on believing that the weight gain is inevitable, as I once did, or b) get off your stubborn *** and follow the experience, advice and success of everyone else who has taken time to try to help you, and this time next year be posting your own success story.

    What saddens me is that at one point, I was ready to offer to send you a digital scale, since you (briefly) seemed to get it, but you just couldn't afford the outlay. Now it's clear to me that I'd just be throwing my money away.

    That was a very kind thought and shows you are a caring person, really.

    Regarding the Scooby calculator, I know he compensates for diminished BMR but do you know if he compensates for declining testosterone levels?? Just curious.

  • kazminchu
    kazminchu Posts: 250 Member
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    *staying tuned to see the results of testosterone testing*
    I feel sorry for you, Primitive. You must have the worst luck ever to have every single one of these reasons to not lose weight. How you can even move without breaking limbs is beyond me.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    purelyprimitives wrote: »
    "No matter how much they exercise or how little they eat, these men are unable to shed this excess weight that accumulates in their belly. Published studies have shown that low testosterone and obesity reinforce each other, trapping men in a spiral of weight gain and hormonal imbalance.1-5"

    I guess no one bothered to actually read the article or referenced footnotes. I am scheduled next month to have my testosterone checked. The results will vindicate either me or you. Stay tuned.....

    It still boils down to CI<CO

    There is no vindication

    The only person invested in your story is you

    Everyone else is trying to help you

    Testosterone is related to musculature ...again we are back to lifting heavy
  • ElkeKNJ
    ElkeKNJ Posts: 207 Member
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    My eightysix-year-old grandfather was diagnosed with type II diabetes around forty years ago and had to switch his regime drastically. He tells me it is a daily struggle still, but he has been maintaining a good healthy weight for years now. He only drinks black coffee, water, soup, or a hot buttermilk drink we call pap. Never spreads his sandwiches with mayo or butter, eats a maximum of four slices of bread for breakfast or dinner, and only puts one slice of cheese or charcuterie between two slices of bread. He does not stack his plate high, and never takes seconds. No snacks apart from his four o'clock cheese sandwich. His daily excercise is his morning walk to the cemetery and his afternoon bicycle ride around the village. What he does is CICO in action, but without a calorie counting app. And as said, even after forty years, he still finds it a struggle. He misses a good glass of beer, chocolate, cake.... and usually wants to eat more than he does, but restrains himself. I've grown up knowing his restrictions, but only found out recently that it does not come effortlessly to him. OP, as you do not own a food scale, and it is not easy for you to log all ingrediënts seperately, you can perhaps try his way. Take a look at your portions, and make them smaller, take a look at your spreads and make them less calorie dense, take a look at your liquids and drink less calories.....
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    Able to schedule/procure testosterone testing but not a food scale?
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    JaneiR36 wrote: »
    Able to schedule/procure testosterone testing but not a food scale?

    Yeah, I think we're being trolled here.

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