Trainer says not to start lifting.... Recommends boot camp style workouts
Replies
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Galonamission81 wrote: »...15 burpees, lunge walking the length of gym & back with 30 lbs, squat presses with 30 lbs, Russian twists, sprinting, ab wheels, etc, etc.Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »On the contrary, BC is probably the worst place to start if you are untrained.
You got to be kidding, read the exercises and reps... sounds pretty mild.0 -
I didn't read all the replies because I assume they are basically, "the guy is a moron, get a new trainer."
Fact of the matter is that there are lots of ways to skin this cat, and what you do or don't do is largely a matter of goals and personal preference. The only goal you mentioned in your post was to lose 30lbs. When talking about simple weight loss, most people will probably have better success with cardio work (like a bootcamp class) than with lifting because they will likely burn more cals, which means either a bigger deficit or more food resulting in better dietary adherence/consistency.
So in that regard, your trainer isn't wrong. Why he ignored your interest in weights is beyond me, but there's certainly nothing wrong with classes.
As for your question... The only time you *shouldn't* lift is if you have a medical reason not to, or if you absolutely completely hate it and it offers no benefit for your goals. Otherwise, fat or thin, fit or not, lifting always has benefits.0 -
$$$ More money in his pocket. Get a new trainer.0
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Galonamission81 wrote: »Hi all,
I met with a trainer last week. After reading a lot of information about lifting programs.. I decided to get " the new rules of lifting for women". I was wound right up, and brought it along to my first session with my new " trainer" at this new super convenient gym close to home.
I showed him what I wanted to try, and brought my new book along.
He said, it's pretty outdated. And then suggested I do the boot camp sessions that they have 3x per week ( 1 hour classes). He said, first try these for 4 weeks and then we can talk again in a month to see about switching it up after that.
So I went ahead and tried the boot camp class. It completely kicked my butt. we completed a list of 20 things like (15 burpees, lunge walking the length of gym & back with 30 lbs, squat presses with 30 lbs, Russian twists, sprinting, ab wheels, etc, etc)
What I'd like to ask is this.... Do you think it's more beneficial to start lifting after you're more fit?
I've got about 30 lbs to lose.
I have 50 pounds to lose.
I've seen more inches go in the last two weeks with heavy lifting compared to when I did only cardio (these include bootcamps, kickboxing, and dvd style cardio and "toning", just to clarify). Just my experience, but yes, I think you should lift. Either tell your trainer that he needs to get with your program, or get a new one that will help you with the moves.
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You're assuming whomever is attempting the exercises are doing it with correct form. Trust that a sedentary/untrained person starting off with BC doesn't do the exercises correctly or with exceptional form.Galonamission81 wrote: »...15 burpees, lunge walking the length of gym & back with 30 lbs, squat presses with 30 lbs, Russian twists, sprinting, ab wheels, etc, etc.Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »On the contrary, BC is probably the worst place to start if you are untrained.
You got to be kidding, read the exercises and reps... sounds pretty mild.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I also really liked circuit training. Most of the typical movements used aren't completely unfamiliar - it's mostly calisthenics you likely encountered in gym class + some 2-10 lb dumbbells. I never got hurt doing that, all my stuff happened from running & doing way too much plyometric stuff / jumping rope. (Obviously some people might be doing stuff like swinging all over the place, way out of control, but hopefully the instructor would help with that
)
I am also pretty sure that I burned way more doing circuit training than I do on any of the low-impact machines I use now.
Obviously, lifting heavy is ideal, but if losing weight is a top priority, maybe it's not a terrible thing to do for a couple of months. You're probably starting off w more muscle mass than someone much lighter would, and I'd bet (although I welcome correction on this) that it would let you keep at least some of what you have.0 -
Hence a "Boot Camp"? And I am assuming it's supervised else OP is really wasting her money.0
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Hence a "Boot Camp"? And I am assuming it's supervised else OP is really wasting her money.
As somebody that is trained in assessing one's movement for mobility and strength imbalances, and as somebody that has done BootCamp; having an educated trainer that knows how to apply their knowledge with an untrained individual via strength training is far better than BootCamp. Yes, BootCamp is supervised but it's also timed. You get to the class, they tell you what to do, the instructor might show you how to do a movement you're unsure of but there's no real coaching and you have 30-minutes to finish the WoD. That's a generalization of course because I can't account for every BC coach ever but that's the gist of how it works.0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »Your trainer is an idiot.
Get a new one.
+1 bazillion!
Someone telling you not to lift doesn't really understand your goals or what a sustainable healthy lifestyle is. Lifting helps preserve/build lean muscle which burns more calories at rest, prevents unjury and gives people that athletic, "I workout" look.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »There's probably nothing wrong with the boot camp classes, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a profit motive there. You're paying for the classes, I assume. Once he trains you on the lifts, I'm sure he's anticipating that you won't have as much need for him.
Lol at switching a client from one on one to boot camp for profit motives. Double lol at that trainer saying NROL is outdated. As if lifts go out of style like the lapels on men's suits
Exactly, there is nothing new under the sun in the fitness industry. It's all been done before, just now has a new name and higher price.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. He doesn't get paid a percentage of the profits from the boot camp
2. There's no guarantee of payments in perpetuity from boot camp goers
3. Training is likely $60-80 per session. Boot camp is $10-15. Even if he got her to only agree to 1 session a week he's ahead of boot camp monies....if he even got a percentage of the boot camp. And at a place like 24 Hour Fitness the group classes are free so there's no money
4. If he's worth a damn as a trainer* it's not hard to convince a potential client that at minimum a one month investment in training is a good idea to get the form and concepts down.** From there there's no reason to think that he might not convert her into an long term client.
5. Think about it in terms of pure economics for yourself. Would you try to convert her to a 2-3 month training package for $1500-2400 paid immediately or would you, for profit motives, not even try that route and instead try to convince her to pay $150 for boot camp and then pray that she stays for 10 months so you can squeak out that same $1500? If I was a trainer I know which way I'd hope the client accepted.
*he's not. Lol@outdated lifts and routines.
**it's not hard because it's the truth
I don't get it. You're presuming an awful lot (like that he doesn't get paid for the boot camp, the cost of each kind of session, how long he would be able to keep her as a client if he was teaching her lifts) that all rests on him thinking intelligently about what's a better idea for his wallet and his client. . .and yet he's saying clearly ridiculous things about NROLW and you're acknowledging he's not a good trainer? Exactly what point are you making here? That you wouldn't be doing the same if you were a trainer? Well, it's clearly not you. I was just trying to come up with a potential explanation for why he would be saying and doing the things he's doing and you disagree because those things would be stupid?
You assume that he's doing something detrimental to the OP for a profit motive and when I lay out why that's not the likely motivation I'm making too many assumptions?0 -
XavierNusum wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »There's probably nothing wrong with the boot camp classes, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a profit motive there. You're paying for the classes, I assume. Once he trains you on the lifts, I'm sure he's anticipating that you won't have as much need for him.
Lol at switching a client from one on one to boot camp for profit motives. Double lol at that trainer saying NROL is outdated. As if lifts go out of style like the lapels on men's suits
Exactly, there is nothing new under the sun in the fitness industry. It's all been done before, just now has a new name and higher price.
Yeah, the trainer is definitely trying to sell a product versus you doing a program that doesn't bring the gym incremental revenue. I've seen some BC classes as high as $100/month versus the NR book which was $30 maybe?0 -
Can I be honest? I've had about four personal trainers across a four year span and not a single one of them taught me the importance of calorie counting versus exercise. Not a single one.Up until I joined mfp I thought that the amount of exercise you did was what caused you to loose weight! NEVER DID I THINK IT WAS WHAT I ATE!! I struggled with my weight for years and no one once told me to count calories!!
So, when it comes to personal trainers I think that *most*are there for the money than the actual help of the client. I mean, the longer your fat the more money they make off of you0 -
Can I be honest? I've had about four personal trainers across a four year span and not a single one of them taught me the importance of calorie counting versus exercise. Not a single one.Up until I joined mfp I thought that the amount of exercise you did was what caused you to loose weight! NEVER DID I THINK IT WAS WHAT I ATE!! I struggled with my weight for years and no one once told me to count calories!!
So, when it comes to personal trainers I think that *most*are there for the money than the actual help of the client. I mean, the longer your fat the more money they make off of you
There are definitely a good portion of those that are clueless but that's not all encompassing at all. Also, in some jurisdictions it's against the law for a trainer without a Registered Dietitians license to provide dietary advice, though some still do it at their own risk.
One thing some people may not realize that especially at larger gyms, the trainers have a job requirement to also sell programs and classes within the facility. I was surprised when I started looking at part-time jobs how much time is spent "selling" versus actual training. I got my degree and cert to train not sell; I'm not a salesman. lol0 -
Can I be honest? I've had about four personal trainers across a four year span and not a single one of them taught me the importance of calorie counting versus exercise. Not a single one.Up until I joined mfp I thought that the amount of exercise you did was what caused you to loose weight! NEVER DID I THINK IT WAS WHAT I ATE!! I struggled with my weight for years and no one once told me to count calories!!
So, when it comes to personal trainers I think that *most*are there for the money than the actual help of the client. I mean, the longer your fat the more money they make off of you
I'm not surprised by this. There are doctors that have no clue about nutrition or it's importance. There a post a day, almost, with people saying my doctor said eat 1100 calories a day or something stupid like that. Trainers aren't nutritionist and nutritionist aren't registered dieticians.
That being said, most trainers/coaches these days try to be more educated on nutrition and how to use it properly.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »There's probably nothing wrong with the boot camp classes, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a profit motive there. You're paying for the classes, I assume. Once he trains you on the lifts, I'm sure he's anticipating that you won't have as much need for him.
Not an expert.....but I'm thinking this^
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That being said, most trainers/coaches these days try to be more educated on nutrition and how to use it properly.
That is true, nutrition is definitely part of most curriculum. The problem is there are legal issues in getting into things like meal planning and recommending what to eat, etc. Some trainers won't get into that just because they don't want to lose their certifications, fines, or hell go to jail.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. He doesn't get paid a percentage of the profits from the boot camp
2. There's no guarantee of payments in perpetuity from boot camp goers
3. Training is likely $60-80 per session. Boot camp is $10-15. Even if he got her to only agree to 1 session a week he's ahead of boot camp monies....if he even got a percentage of the boot camp. And at a place like 24 Hour Fitness the group classes are free so there's no money
4. If he's worth a damn as a trainer* it's not hard to convince a potential client that at minimum a one month investment in training is a good idea to get the form and concepts down.** From there there's no reason to think that he might not convert her into an long term client.
5. Think about it in terms of pure economics for yourself. Would you try to convert her to a 2-3 month training package for $1500-2400 paid immediately or would you, for profit motives, not even try that route and instead try to convince her to pay $150 for boot camp and then pray that she stays for 10 months so you can squeak out that same $1500? If I was a trainer I know which way I'd hope the client accepted.
*he's not. Lol@outdated lifts and routines.
**it's not hard because it's the truth
I don't get it. You're presuming an awful lot (like that he doesn't get paid for the boot camp, the cost of each kind of session, how long he would be able to keep her as a client if he was teaching her lifts) that all rests on him thinking intelligently about what's a better idea for his wallet and his client. . .and yet he's saying clearly ridiculous things about NROLW and you're acknowledging he's not a good trainer? Exactly what point are you making here? That you wouldn't be doing the same if you were a trainer? Well, it's clearly not you. I was just trying to come up with a potential explanation for why he would be saying and doing the things he's doing and you disagree because those things would be stupid?
You assume that he's doing something detrimental to the OP for a profit motive and when I lay out why that's not the likely motivation I'm making too many assumptions?
I actually didn't say it was detrimental. I said that there's likely nothing wrong per se with the boot camp, but that he was probably doing this for a profit motive.
She works with him for whatever finite period of time she needs to learn the lifts and then doesn't need him anymore. Two to three months is a pretty big stretch, but since you propose that he could sell her on that, let's say that. Even if he gets her for only that two or three months, it's still finite. If he gets her to try boot camp for a month first, he's still made more money on top of that. If she likes boot camp and sticks to it, she's paying for an indefinite period of time, since you always pay a class fee for it. You don't know whether he gets paid a percentage of the profits from boot camp. I speculated that he might, but you are apparently positive that he doesn't.
You just seem really fixated on the notion that this guy, who has already said odd things as a personal trainer, is just stupid and that there is no other possible explanation for his statements and recommendations.
In what world are boot camp classes infinite memberships? And is it that world or a different one where clients can't possibly stay with their trainers for more than a month or two or three?0 -
My free trainer at the Y told me that heavy lifting would make me bulky. I told her that was silly and it's what I want really to do. She showed me all these high rep/low weight things that didn't even make me sore. I finally signed up for an Olympic weightlifting program that is scaled for where I am and he pushes me WAY harder than this lady thought I could even do. I wonder if there's something in your area like that? Serious lifters work with this guy and newbies like me do as well.
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My free trainer at the Y told me that heavy lifting would make me bulky. I told her that was silly and it's what I want really to do. She showed me all these high rep/low weight things that didn't even make me sore. I finally signed up for an Olympic weightlifting program that is scaled for where I am and he pushes me WAY harder than this lady thought I could even do. I wonder if there's something in your area like that? Serious lifters work with this guy and newbies like me do as well.
I'm so glad you escaped that woman's cardio bunny prison and made to the refuge of heavy lifting!!!
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Well if you are exercising you are doing yourself good, but I disagree with your trainer. I think lifting is the way to go mostly. Mike Matthews has a good book for women too "thinner leaner stronger". Good luck0
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amyrebeccah wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. He doesn't get paid a percentage of the profits from the boot camp
2. There's no guarantee of payments in perpetuity from boot camp goers
3. Training is likely $60-80 per session. Boot camp is $10-15. Even if he got her to only agree to 1 session a week he's ahead of boot camp monies....if he even got a percentage of the boot camp. And at a place like 24 Hour Fitness the group classes are free so there's no money
4. If he's worth a damn as a trainer* it's not hard to convince a potential client that at minimum a one month investment in training is a good idea to get the form and concepts down.** From there there's no reason to think that he might not convert her into an long term client.
5. Think about it in terms of pure economics for yourself. Would you try to convert her to a 2-3 month training package for $1500-2400 paid immediately or would you, for profit motives, not even try that route and instead try to convince her to pay $150 for boot camp and then pray that she stays for 10 months so you can squeak out that same $1500? If I was a trainer I know which way I'd hope the client accepted.
*he's not. Lol@outdated lifts and routines.
**it's not hard because it's the truth
I don't get it. You're presuming an awful lot (like that he doesn't get paid for the boot camp, the cost of each kind of session, how long he would be able to keep her as a client if he was teaching her lifts) that all rests on him thinking intelligently about what's a better idea for his wallet and his client. . .and yet he's saying clearly ridiculous things about NROLW and you're acknowledging he's not a good trainer? Exactly what point are you making here? That you wouldn't be doing the same if you were a trainer? Well, it's clearly not you. I was just trying to come up with a potential explanation for why he would be saying and doing the things he's doing and you disagree because those things would be stupid?
You assume that he's doing something detrimental to the OP for a profit motive and when I lay out why that's not the likely motivation I'm making too many assumptions?
I actually didn't say it was detrimental. I said that there's likely nothing wrong per se with the boot camp, but that he was probably doing this for a profit motive.
She works with him for whatever finite period of time she needs to learn the lifts and then doesn't need him anymore. Two to three months is a pretty big stretch, but since you propose that he could sell her on that, let's say that. Even if he gets her for only that two or three months, it's still finite. If he gets her to try boot camp for a month first, he's still made more money on top of that. If she likes boot camp and sticks to it, she's paying for an indefinite period of time, since you always pay a class fee for it. You don't know whether he gets paid a percentage of the profits from boot camp. I speculated that he might, but you are apparently positive that he doesn't.
You just seem really fixated on the notion that this guy, who has already said odd things as a personal trainer, is just stupid and that there is no other possible explanation for his statements and recommendations.
In what world are boot camp classes infinite memberships? And is it that world or a different one where clients can't possibly stay with their trainers for more than a month or two or three?
You keep mischaracterizing my position in order to argue against one that I'm not making. Either you're doing it on purpose, or you need to work on reading comprehension. Either way, this is beyond useless to the OP, so I'm bowing out.amyrebeccah wrote: »There's probably nothing wrong with the boot camp classes, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a profit motive there. You're paying for the classes, I assume. Once he trains you on the lifts, I'm sure he's anticipating that you won't have as much need for him.
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Wow... Thanks all for your input, I didn't expect so many responses.
I think I'll keep up with the boot camp program for the next month and try to find some equipment I can start using at home for lifting. It will give me a bit of time to re-organize my office into a workout room anyway!
I do feel really good after the boot camp and find it really challenging. It's a 1 hour class and it's not just cardio. There's some built strength into it as well. Lots of squats with weights, lunges with weights, and chin ups, etc.
the one thing I found discouraging was working out the other day I asked one of the girls who has approximately as much as me to lose, " how long have you been doing the classes?" Hoping she's say a month or so. " 2 years". In my mind, I'm thinking..WHAT?!?! 2 years?!? In 6 months I'm hoping I'll have lost most of my unwanted weight and looking fit! Mind you, I have no clue how she eats.., or what she looked like 2 years ago before she started!
Right now, it's motivating me a lot more than my 21 day fix workouts I was doing at home. My weights I'm using are heavier ( I currently only have my 8 lb "Barbie" weights. Lol). and it's double the time in length.
And another bonus is I am learning new excersises and that in itself will help me once I've got my home gym in order!
Again, I sincerely thank you all for your input! It means a lot to have you take time out of your day to help and offer some advice!
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I am guessing your trainer wants you to see the basic moves, without focusing on lifting, and get a more specific idea of what you like and what not, and then go from there. It sounds to me like a good approach. You try different things, see what works for you. Better than telling him you read a book on the advise of some strangers on an internet forum
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BC isn't just one person. There are several. And with the class moving quite fast, instructors don't have time to correct form for one person each and every move. How do I know? Because I instruct it.Hence a "Boot Camp"? And I am assuming it's supervised else OP is really wasting her money.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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You were unlucky then, but not surprised with many new trainers today. That's why when I hear people say, "I can teach people how to lift, so it can't be that hard to be a PT", I eyeroll in my head.Can I be honest? I've had about four personal trainers across a four year span and not a single one of them taught me the importance of calorie counting versus exercise. Not a single one.Up until I joined mfp I thought that the amount of exercise you did was what caused you to loose weight! NEVER DID I THINK IT WAS WHAT I ATE!! I struggled with my weight for years and no one once told me to count calories!!
So, when it comes to personal trainers I think that *most*are there for the money than the actual help of the client. I mean, the longer your fat the more money they make off of you
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
BC isn't just one person. There are several. And with the class moving quite fast, instructors don't have time to correct form for one person each and every move. How do I know? Because I instruct it.Hence a "Boot Camp"? And I am assuming it's supervised else OP is really wasting her money.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's exactly right Niner. I don't know why people think because BC is mostly body-weight and maybe some very light weights that it's easy or somebody better than strength training. BC is first and foremost a means of training aerobic conditioning. It is not strength training, it is not rehab, it is not corrective exercise; it is primarily conditioning. If somebody is un-conditioned and has poor movement mechanics, there's a fair chance of injury. Not to mention that BC typically introduces some CrossFit concepts like high-rep box jumps which can be brutal on your knees especially if your body is not conditioned to absorb the landing. That's why in something like a Phase 1 program that a NASM trainer would use, they might introduce some very light plyometrics like a box hop-down to teach how to stabilize a landing. This is of course client specific, but a tool that can be used with the right individual.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »There's probably nothing wrong with the boot camp classes, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a profit motive there. You're paying for the classes, I assume. Once he trains you on the lifts, I'm sure he's anticipating that you won't have as much need for him.
ding ding ding here is your answer
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