Bulking and hungry in the morning?!?!?
Replies
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Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
So broscience > than real science????0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
So broscience > than real science????
obviously!!11!1one!11!eleven!! have you not been on mfp for a long time or something????0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
So broscience > than real science????
obviously!!11!1one!11!eleven!! have you not been on mfp for a long time or something????
whoops, I forgot where I was …
thanks for bringing me back to reality ….0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
So broscience > than real science????
obviously!!11!1one!11!eleven!! have you not been on mfp for a long time or something????
whoops, I forgot where I was …
thanks for bringing me back to reality ….
u r welcom0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
To get enough calories in a bulk, I am going to assume most people will benefit most from added carbs, which adds to the argument that carbs are more important when bulking so long as your protein and fats are met.
I'll use my own math as an example. At 5'9" and 165, I gain weight at 2800-3000 calories per day based on my activity level. Assuming 1g of protein, and .4g of fat per total body weight (which is probably protein overkill anyway), I am at 1260 calories roughly (660 from protein, 600 from fat). That is less than 50% of my caloric need from those 2 macros, meaning more than 50% of my calories are going to come from carbs. Your statement that protein is more important confuses me. What would the benefit be to me eating enough protein to make that macro more important toward hitting my daily calorie needs than carbs, since my total caloric intake will be what determines my success in gaining weight?0 -
I find that sometimes it is acid burning in my stomach or into my throat that makes me feel hungry early in the morning, more so than actual hunger. Try an antacid and see if that helps. Also, hit your goal. It is hard to make accurate conclusions if you aren't actually hitting your calorie goal regularly.0
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mantium999 wrote: »
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
To get enough calories in a bulk, I am going to assume most people will benefit most from added carbs, which adds to the argument that carbs are more important when bulking so long as your protein and fats are met.
I'll use my own math as an example. At 5'9" and 165, I gain weight at 2800-3000 calories per day based on my activity level. Assuming 1g of protein, and .4g of fat per total body weight (which is probably protein overkill anyway), I am at 1260 calories roughly (660 from protein, 600 from fat). That is less than 50% of my caloric need from those 2 macros, meaning more than 50% of my calories are going to come from carbs. Your statement that protein is more important confuses me. What would the benefit be to me eating enough protein to make that macro more important toward hitting my daily calorie needs than carbs, since my total caloric intake will be what determines my success in gaining weight?
Not sure how it confuses you. No one said eat more of something we are talking about what is most important.0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
But that still doesn't address my main point that you're reasoning is purely based on anecdotal information from a subset of competitors which really isn't the best baseline for ideal bulking practices.
Since you're fixated on what competitors say, I frequent body building forums as well and anyone with experience and actual expertise (which is different than just competitive experience) says that carbs are a highly crucial piece to bulking. Can link you if you need it. You get your protein and fat requirements and the rest is carbs. That's basic info. At this point you're arguing over semantics.0 -
Actually yes over the past 2 weeks I've increased from 2000-21000-2300-2400. The 2400 was only for the past 2 days!
Yes I am hitting my protein and fats. As you can see I keep fats pretty high to keep my hormones in check, they are almost 30% of my calories. I am going to go lesser on protein and more on carbs.
Thanks for the detailed discussion guys! Everyone is different I guess? Some build better muscles on higher protein, some do better on carbs. I love my carbs so definitely I wouldn't trade it away! Do you guys count and weight your Veggies ad well?0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11]0 -
Shouliveshappy wrote: »Actually yes over the past 2 weeks I've increased from 2000-21000-2300-2400. The 2400 was only for the past 2 days!
Yes I am hitting my protein and fats. As you can see I keep fats pretty high to keep my hormones in check, they are almost 30% of my calories. I am going to go lesser on protein and more on carbs.
Thanks for the detailed discussion guys! Everyone is different I guess? Some build better muscles on higher protein, some do better on carbs. I love my carbs so definitely I wouldn't trade it away! Do you guys count and weight your Veggies ad well?
Basic human physiology is all pretty much the same. The unfortunate issue is, the community has to overcome antiquated techniques set in place by bodybuilders during the 60's and 70's. A lot of body builders still follow the chicken and broccoli mantra.
Personally, I would see how 2400 calories a week does for a few weeks. I don't know any person who actually bulks around 1900.
0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11]
a link from MFP must be true. Also, there is no evidence that a carb is the most important factor, Actually there is evidence that is more about the calories as a whole. Calories is the correct answer thanks for playing. Then it goes protein, carbs and nutrients. If you can bulk with low carbs and high fats it makes carbs not the most important thing, but you will always need protein and calories. Please stop arguing the simple facts.
"Of the three universal food groups, only proteins are indispensable for our existence. Carbohydrates are the least necessary nutrient, because our bodies can produce glucose -- that is, sugar -- from meat or fat. When we are deprived of food or are dieting, we draw upon our fat reserves, transforming them into the glucose that is vital for our muscles and brain. The same goes for fats: an overweight person is expert in both making and storing them.
On the other hand, we do not have the metabolic means to synthesize proteins. Just being alive and ensuring that our muscular system is maintained, that our red blood cells are renewed, that wounds heal, that hair grows, and even that memory functions -- all these vital operations require proteins, a minimum of 1 gram per day for every 2 pounds of body weight.
Whenever there is not enough protein, the body is forced to draw upon its reserves, mainly the muscles, but it also uses skin or even bones.
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals. A meager breakfast, lunch consisting of a pastry and a bar of chocolate, then pizza for dinner with fruit for dessert are all meals that lack protein and will make your skin dull and impair your body’s general strength."
Dr. Pierre Dukan is the author of the #1 New York Times Bestseller “The Dukan Diet”. He is a French medical doctor with 35 years of experience in clinical nutrition. While he began his medical career specializing in neurology, Dr. Dukan discovered and refined his successful weight loss method while working with over 40,000 of his patients in General Practice. Since then he has spent his career helping people lose weight and keep it off forever.0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11] a link from MFP must be true.
It likes the source.. it was a copy and paste from another source.
0 -
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
So basically you are saying that we start metabolizing our muscles every night?0 -
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
So basically you are saying that we start metabolizing our muscles every night?
Don't miss your 2am meat snack or you'll screw up your gains.
I like how we've now jumped from get plenty of carbs on a bulk to people following fad diets detoxing with fruits and veggies.0 -
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11] a link from MFP must be true. Also, there is no evidence that a carb is the most important factor, Actually there is evidence that is more about the calories as a whole. Calories is the correct answer thanks for playing. Then it goes protein, carbs and nutrients. If you can bulk with low carbs and high fats it makes carbs not the most important thing, but you will always need protein and calories. Please stop arguing the simple facts.
"Of the three universal food groups, only proteins are indispensable for our existence. Carbohydrates are the least necessary nutrient, because our bodies can produce glucose -- that is, sugar -- from meat or fat. When we are deprived of food or are dieting, we draw upon our fat reserves, transforming them into the glucose that is vital for our muscles and brain. The same goes for fats: an overweight person is expert in both making and storing them.
On the other hand, we do not have the metabolic means to synthesize proteins. Just being alive and ensuring that our muscular system is maintained, that our red blood cells are renewed, that wounds heal, that hair grows, and even that memory functions -- all these vital operations require proteins, a minimum of 1 gram per day for every 2 pounds of body weight.
Whenever there is not enough protein, the body is forced to draw upon its reserves, mainly the muscles, but it also uses skin or even bones.
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals. A meager breakfast, lunch consisting of a pastry and a bar of chocolate, then pizza for dinner with fruit for dessert are all meals that lack protein and will make your skin dull and impair your body’s general strength."
Dr. Pierre Dukan is the author of the #1 New York Times Bestseller “The Dukan Diet”. He is a French medical doctor with 35 years of experience in clinical nutrition. While he began his medical career specializing in neurology, Dr. Dukan discovered and refined his successful weight loss method while working with over 40,000 of his patients in General Practice. Since then he has spent his career helping people lose weight and keep it off forever.
the irony inherent in your first sentence is so laughable, that I am no longer responding. So your posting from a body building forum is greater than the one that I linked you to???
0 -
I find it interesting after I link that quote from an actual Dr. You stop responding. Body builders are saying the same as this Dr. yet you're like, na MORE CARBS!
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11] a link from MFP must be true. Also, there is no evidence that a carb is the most important factor, Actually there is evidence that is more about the calories as a whole. Calories is the correct answer thanks for playing. Then it goes protein, carbs and nutrients. If you can bulk with low carbs and high fats it makes carbs not the most important thing, but you will always need protein and calories. Please stop arguing the simple facts.
"Of the three universal food groups, only proteins are indispensable for our existence. Carbohydrates are the least necessary nutrient, because our bodies can produce glucose -- that is, sugar -- from meat or fat. When we are deprived of food or are dieting, we draw upon our fat reserves, transforming them into the glucose that is vital for our muscles and brain. The same goes for fats: an overweight person is expert in both making and storing them.
On the other hand, we do not have the metabolic means to synthesize proteins. Just being alive and ensuring that our muscular system is maintained, that our red blood cells are renewed, that wounds heal, that hair grows, and even that memory functions -- all these vital operations require proteins, a minimum of 1 gram per day for every 2 pounds of body weight.
Whenever there is not enough protein, the body is forced to draw upon its reserves, mainly the muscles, but it also uses skin or even bones.
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals. A meager breakfast, lunch consisting of a pastry and a bar of chocolate, then pizza for dinner with fruit for dessert are all meals that lack protein and will make your skin dull and impair your body’s general strength."
Dr. Pierre Dukan is the author of the #1 New York Times Bestseller “The Dukan Diet”. He is a French medical doctor with 35 years of experience in clinical nutrition. While he began his medical career specializing in neurology, Dr. Dukan discovered and refined his successful weight loss method while working with over 40,000 of his patients in General Practice. Since then he has spent his career helping people lose weight and keep it off forever.
the irony inherent in your first sentence is so laughable, that I am no longer responding. So your posting from a body building forum is greater than the one that I linked you to???
0 -
I find it interesting after I link that quote from an actual Dr. You stop responding. Body builders are saying the same as this Dr. yet you're like, na MORE CARBS!
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11] a link from MFP must be true. Also, there is no evidence that a carb is the most important factor, Actually there is evidence that is more about the calories as a whole. Calories is the correct answer thanks for playing. Then it goes protein, carbs and nutrients. If you can bulk with low carbs and high fats it makes carbs not the most important thing, but you will always need protein and calories. Please stop arguing the simple facts.
"Of the three universal food groups, only proteins are indispensable for our existence. Carbohydrates are the least necessary nutrient, because our bodies can produce glucose -- that is, sugar -- from meat or fat. When we are deprived of food or are dieting, we draw upon our fat reserves, transforming them into the glucose that is vital for our muscles and brain. The same goes for fats: an overweight person is expert in both making and storing them.
On the other hand, we do not have the metabolic means to synthesize proteins. Just being alive and ensuring that our muscular system is maintained, that our red blood cells are renewed, that wounds heal, that hair grows, and even that memory functions -- all these vital operations require proteins, a minimum of 1 gram per day for every 2 pounds of body weight.
Whenever there is not enough protein, the body is forced to draw upon its reserves, mainly the muscles, but it also uses skin or even bones.
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals. A meager breakfast, lunch consisting of a pastry and a bar of chocolate, then pizza for dinner with fruit for dessert are all meals that lack protein and will make your skin dull and impair your body’s general strength."
Dr. Pierre Dukan is the author of the #1 New York Times Bestseller “The Dukan Diet”. He is a French medical doctor with 35 years of experience in clinical nutrition. While he began his medical career specializing in neurology, Dr. Dukan discovered and refined his successful weight loss method while working with over 40,000 of his patients in General Practice. Since then he has spent his career helping people lose weight and keep it off forever.
the irony inherent in your first sentence is so laughable, that I am no longer responding. So your posting from a body building forum is greater than the one that I linked you to???
You quoted a doctor who focuses on weight loss, with a quote about adequate protein consumption while losing weight in an argument about bulking.
"Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals."
Good job, have a cookie.0 -
Nothing like quoting an ad for a diet being sold . And we all agree that 1 gram of protein in a cut or bulk is important.0
-
I find it interesting after I link that quote from an actual Dr. You stop responding. Body builders are saying the same as this Dr. yet you're like, na MORE CARBS!
Really, your linking to a forum as your evidence?
When bulking carbs are more important because the insulin spike signals your muscles to start building. Protein should still be about .85 grams per pound of body weight however majority of caps should come from carbs.
Protein is more important on cut to maintain existing mass.
Yep, I linked a body building site. As, since the main goal of those particular people seems to be more reliable for they are on stage and there careers are on the line. Some one might say Jay Cutter takes 1000 grams of carbs, and that is true but that man eats like 10k+ calories, so really is it high or moderate depending on the person. I can also say that actors who are bulking up are eating incredible sources of protein there are many you tube interviews of this. Hugh Jackman himself said he was eating 6-8 chicken breast protein shakes, not counting his other calories, or I can take the rocks diet with how much Cod that man is eating. I'm not saying carbs are not important I am just commenting on your word choice.
so your nitpicking then?
Lets rehash ..
bulking - carbs more important than protein, but make sure that you hit protein and fat minimums.
cutting - protein more important than protein.
or do you want to argue just to argue some more...
I'm not arguing, the fact is the majority of actual body builders have high protein around 200-400 grams, moderate carbs and moderate fat Of course this all comes down to total calories..
It totally makes no sense to say "protein, more protein" on cutting if you your body is supposedly only able to have so much protein. You can't have it both ways. It would be for both HIGH (the same to an extent, only going higher because of a raise of calories) in both phases, since the fundamental building block of making muscle is from protein synthesis , unless you saying you are bulking/cutting without a care to keep muscle. (aka) not weight lifting.
You keep referencing what the majority of body buildings do. It's a little ridiculous to be arguing your point here based off the validity of things body builders do (which aren't always based in science/logic/general health). I mean...it's not like body builders ever practice things that could be considered overkill or contrary to valid science, right?
This isn't at all relevant to OP. It's like coming in and telling her about the importance of getting in 2 hours of training a week on her triceps if she really wants to see results. I mean, body builders do it, right?
Since bulking is pretty much from body building, I'd say it's relevant. Most of the information everyone is using is from people who compete, either cutting or bulking, so yeah it works. Also, my post are from the person who believed carbs are the most important thing in bulking when that is clearly wrong, carbs has a role but it's not the most important thing.
The argument is carbs are more important than protein during a bulk.but that one still needs to hit protein and fat minimums...
If you have some science to disputes that please link is to it...
Feel free to link your information first, since you made the comment first about carbs being the most... My argument is carbs is not the most important thing.
You can't "bulk" without enough calories, you can bulk with only moderate/lowish carbs
Its easy to bulk:
1. Get enough protein to maximize protein synthesis
2. Get enough dietary fat to support hormone function
3. Split the rest of you calories up between carbs/fat
4. Bada-bing-bada-boom
since you like links from body building forums, here is one from MFP:http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1
Carbohydrate Intake is Important
Protein intake tends to get all of the attention when it comes to building muscle mass, but that focus is a bit misguided. A high protein intake is actually more important when dieting for fat loss (it helps prevent muscle loss) than when dieting for muscle gain. [9] The body utilizes ingested protein much more efficiently when it isn’t trying to make up an energy deficit. 1g protein per pound of lean body mass is a more than sufficient protein intake when bulking.
Carbohydrates however are critical for two reasons:
Exercise Fuel
Activate the mTOR Signaling Pathway
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain!
Ice cream or frozen yogurt (especially low fat varieties) is an excellent use of your extra bulking calories as it is primarily non-fructose carbohydrate and easy to eat.
There is a whole host of various reactions and signal chains that need to occur for the body to begin to grow larger muscles, but none is more important than the mTOR signal pathway. When activated it tells the body to use ingested nutrients to grow larger (in the case of insulin resistant individuals it is TOO effective which makes fat gain a bit too easy). There are quite a few things that interact to activate the pathway, but insulin plays a major role. Producing insulin is the bodies’ response to ingested carbohydrate (and protein to a degree, though not as strongly). [10]
As a bare minimum a good bulking diet should include a moderate carbohydrate intake (~40% of total calories). When bulking my carbohydrate intake is in the area of 50-60% of total calories.
The other point about carbohydrates to be aware of is that all carbohydrates are not the same. Fructose is handled by the body a bit differently than starches, glucose, or other carbohydrates; it has to be first processed by the liver before it can be used by the muscles, likewise it has little to no insulin response. For fueling exercise performance and muscle gain, fructose is an inferior carbohydrate (due to its negative impact on Leptin levels, fructose is also poor for refeeding). [11] a link from MFP must be true. Also, there is no evidence that a carb is the most important factor, Actually there is evidence that is more about the calories as a whole. Calories is the correct answer thanks for playing. Then it goes protein, carbs and nutrients. If you can bulk with low carbs and high fats it makes carbs not the most important thing, but you will always need protein and calories. Please stop arguing the simple facts.
"Of the three universal food groups, only proteins are indispensable for our existence. Carbohydrates are the least necessary nutrient, because our bodies can produce glucose -- that is, sugar -- from meat or fat. When we are deprived of food or are dieting, we draw upon our fat reserves, transforming them into the glucose that is vital for our muscles and brain. The same goes for fats: an overweight person is expert in both making and storing them.
On the other hand, we do not have the metabolic means to synthesize proteins. Just being alive and ensuring that our muscular system is maintained, that our red blood cells are renewed, that wounds heal, that hair grows, and even that memory functions -- all these vital operations require proteins, a minimum of 1 gram per day for every 2 pounds of body weight.
Whenever there is not enough protein, the body is forced to draw upon its reserves, mainly the muscles, but it also uses skin or even bones.
Recently, some diets have led people to believe that our bodies can be detoxified by eating just fruit and vegetables for a few days. When you realize it has been scientifically proved that after eight hours without good-quality proteins, the body has to draw upon its own muscle reserves to ensure its vital functions, you can understand just how inappropriate such ideas are.
Anyone wanting to lose weight should therefore realize that however restrictive the diet, it should never supply the body with less than 1 gram of protein per day for every 2 pounds of body weight, and, most important, protein intake should be evenly distributed over the day’s three meals. A meager breakfast, lunch consisting of a pastry and a bar of chocolate, then pizza for dinner with fruit for dessert are all meals that lack protein and will make your skin dull and impair your body’s general strength."
Dr. Pierre Dukan is the author of the #1 New York Times Bestseller “The Dukan Diet”. He is a French medical doctor with 35 years of experience in clinical nutrition. While he began his medical career specializing in neurology, Dr. Dukan discovered and refined his successful weight loss method while working with over 40,000 of his patients in General Practice. Since then he has spent his career helping people lose weight and keep it off forever.
the irony inherent in your first sentence is so laughable, that I am no longer responding. So your posting from a body building forum is greater than the one that I linked you to???
Yea, the point went totally over your head. Earlier in the thread you linked to a body building forum as a legit source, but when I link to an mfp forum with actual source info your complaint is that it is an mfp forum = irony. Or do you not understand the definition of irony??
And thanks for confirming that protein is more important during a cut; oh wait we already knew that.0 -
I think it's an oxymoron. When I truly bulked to put on muscle, I was ALWAYS full except when I trained.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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