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What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
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I don't really have a problem saying no to food I don't want or ignoring people but can see that it could be a problem. The OP suggestion to just talk to people in your life and tell them what you need is good. I would say be specific and realistic. Not realistic to expect people will never eat cake around you or remember what you can eat for your calorie goal but accepting when you say no or not making comments about you eating something is realistic.
Some people can be extremely pushy/unstable over food. I had an incident several years ago where I politely declined some food repeatedly and it ended with people (not me) yelling and actually throwing things. These were adults and it was a piece of store bought candy. Fortunately, I don't live or work with that person but someone else might. They might need to have a conversation or two.
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I will just say that to measure is to know. Why would you not track your weight and consumption? Why not continue to use the tools that got you where you want to be?0
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I don't really have a problem saying no to food I don't want or ignoring people but can see that it could be a problem. The OP suggestion to just talk to people in your life and tell them what you need is good. I would say be specific and realistic. Not realistic to expect people will never eat cake around you or remember what you can eat for your calorie goal but accepting when you say no or not making comments about you eating something is realistic.
Some people can be extremely pushy/unstable over food. I had an incident several years ago where I politely declined some food repeatedly and it ended with people (not me) yelling and actually throwing things. These were adults and it was a piece of store bought candy. Fortunately, I don't live or work with that person but someone else might. They might need to have a conversation or two.
At Christmas I felt obliged to eat an excessive amount of food in front of my family to "prove" I hadn't had a gastric band fitted. I think that like so many things in life, if we for the support of those around us it would be so much easier. You hear all the time of one half of a couple trying to lose weight and then the other just carrying on ordering take aways. I know my own father did it to myself and my mother. Totally disregarded our diets or plans when it came to meals. Willpower is one thing but I know that I could have lost the 200+ pounds if I'd not had the support network I do have around me now.
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I will just say that to measure is to know. Why would you not track your weight and consumption? Why not continue to use the tools that got you where you want to be?
I fully accept that I may have to go back to doing it. I'm not being disparaging of the tools I just feel like I need to stand on my own two feet for a few more months. A lot of other things changed in my life and I'm trying to figure out if the source of the problem has gone away.
If I'm being honest my whole life has changed: location, relationship, job and friends.0 -
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.0 -
I will just say that to measure is to know. Why would you not track your weight and consumption? Why not continue to use the tools that got you where you want to be?
I agree. One of the biggest problems in losing weight is maintaining the loss. Too many times I lost weight and then went back to old habits allowing it to sneak back on. Don't get me wrong, it didn't come back overnight. One day, I would eat chips with my sandwich. The next, I'd have another cocktail. You get the picture. I would not get on the scale. I kept telling myself you'll get back on track. A three pound gain turned to five. The next month another three. Five months another 20. For me, I have to weigh myself and I have to log the food. At 57 the bad habits are too well ingrained.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
0 -
I will just say that to measure is to know. Why would you not track your weight and consumption? Why not continue to use the tools that got you where you want to be?
I agree. One of the biggest problems in losing weight is maintaining the loss. Too many times I lost weight and then went back to old habits allowing it to sneak back on. Don't get me wrong, it didn't come back overnight. One day, I would eat chips with my sandwich. The next, I'd have another cocktail. You get the picture. I would not get on the scale. I kept telling myself you'll get back on track. A three pound gain turned to five. The next month another three. Five months another 20. For me, I have to weigh myself and I have to log the food. At 57 the bad habits are too well ingrained.
As mentioned above my entire circumstance is different to what it was before the weight loss started. I have no problem following MFP again should the need arise.0 -
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
I don't recall claiming otherwise?0 -
Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
If only we were so immune to the ideas of others the world wouldn't have so many examples of destructive ideology scattered across time.0 -
Then the bridge jumping analogy applies and blaming your friends, family, or anyone else is, again, a cop out.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
I don't recall claiming otherwise?
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Love it. You have a serious way with words! Coworkers love to throw in their two cents when it comes to weight loss. I definitely know that first hand.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
I never wanted to be over 400 pounds. I dreamed of the day I would become "normal". I just didn't have the skills/tools at the time to do it. Part of the issue, and I do agree that we are adults here and responsible for our own actions, was the base for dealing with stress. I came from a family of addicts (smoking, alcohol, food, etc) and never really learned good stress management skills. Again, I am not blaming my background, but sharing how it shaped the man I became. Not to mention that we seem to have a predisposition for obesity in my family.
Nature vs. nurture? Perhaps a little of both. We are shaped by the environments in which we grow up.
What I did realize is that I did have control over it and could change it. It was within the realm of possibility for me to lose all the weight. I did not have to live on the legacy of addictive and poor behaviors I grew up with.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »I may stop logging one day (been in maintenance just over a year), but I know I'll need to keep weighing myself regularly forever. The scale is my truth-meter and my security blanket in this regard. I do wish you luck in your mindfulness.
I do absolutely get that believe me. 18 months of psychotherapy has given me some confidence to try this. I'm not claiming to know the correct way just sharing experience. Each to their own.
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