September 2015 Running Challenge

rogue024 wrote: »

@Stoshew71 - I have been really enjoying reading the advice you've been giving here. Thanks for taking the time. I had forgotten about the McMillan site, thanks for the link.

My pleasure.

7lenny7 wrote: »

Stoshew71 wrote: »

Not at all @jtarmom. I enjoy helping people.

One question I have, is how does heat and fatigue play into this? I can more easily keep a faster pace when it cooler out. Do I use the slower paces within each range when it's nasty hot out, and migrate to the faster paces as it cools down?

I prefer using heart rate as a guide rather than pace because I'm better at regulating HR and I then get to see the general improvement in pace as a measuring stick for my running development. I see that the calculations do provide heart rate range. These are rather wide ranges in many cases, and have much overlap. For instance, an HRR range of 55 to 65 would encompass all three endurance run types, yet there is no such overlap with the three endurance paces. Any reason I shouldn't just use that 55 to 65 HRR range and make it simple for myself?

Answer to first question. Yes!!!! heat, humidity, if you are recovering from a cold, you had a really intense workout 2 days ago that you are still feeling, not enough sleep, poor nutrition, ect. All of these things can effect your paces. You just have to go by feel at that point. or as you suggested, as an alternative, you can use the HR range for the reasons you give above.


Answer to last question regarding the over lap in paces/HR ranges. The 3 stamina paces have distinct meanings but are all related to the same thing. Your lactate threshold velocity (vLT), which is also estimated.

So you have your Steady State Run, Tempo Run, and Tempo Intervals.

Tempo Runs are designed to run right at your vLT. So your vLT is only estimated (the only true way to get it is in a lab where they have you run on a treadmill and they take various blood samples). So since it is only estimated, they give you a range instead. So it's OK to run just a little bit below or above it to get the effect. The range covers all the basis being that it is estimated. The idea of the tempo workout is to get you to practice as much running right at your LT. This is the most efficient means to stress this function for as long as you can. BTW, all running that takes you more than 90 seconds (1 mile, 5K, 10K, marathon, all the way through ultra) is based upon your LT. Improving your LT will improve all your race times. Any race that takes you less than 90 seconds is powered mostly by your anaerobic system. That is why the body of an elite 60 meter sprinter is very much different than the body of a champion marathon runner.

So where was I? Oh! So you got your tempo workout designed to get you to run as far as you can right at your LT. You should never run more than 30-40 minutes at LT. reason is, you don't want to run a race during training. save your racing for actual race day. leave something extra during training so you can do your next workout a bit more refreshed. Remember your body can only race at LT pace for 50-60 minutes. So anything more than 30-40 minutes is basically racing. For a beginner, a tempo should only be done for ~20 minutes.

So then you got tempo intervals. These are ran just a small bit faster than vLT. These are designed to practice your lactate clearing. You run a bit faster to build up lactate then on the active rest in between the intervals, your body is practicing clearing that lactate. The idea is to run them shorter in length than a regular tempo but more often in intervals. Short interval/active rest/another short interval/active rest/another short interval... you get the idea. The tempo intervals or cruise intervals are normally 1 mile intervals (or 2 miles for the advanced runner) but can be done at 800 meters (2 laps around the track or 1/2 mile) if you never done this before and need to work on this.

At the other end of the spectrum is your steady state run. These are somewhat like your tempo run but are designed to be longer. Since you limit your tempo run to 20-30 minutes, the steady state run allows you to practice running at a "comfortably hard" pace for a lot longer. The steady state run is done just a tad bit slower than your vLT. So your body is not producing as much lacate and hydrogen ions. This allows you to run a bit further.

Again, since the vLT is only estimated, the calculator gives you a range for each of the 3 training paces. Also, things like heat, humidity, sickness, soreness, nutrition, sleep, extreme stress like a busy day at work, ect all effect your vLT, this is another reason a range is given. Though, extreme heat and humidity and other factors can actually effect the range even further than what the calculator provides.

So say the calculator says your tempo range is 8:00-8:12. Well, for every 5 degrees above 60 can effect your pace by as much as 30 seconds.... This means your tempo range can actually be closer to 10:00-10:12 when it is 80 degrees out (worse case scenario). Everybody handles heat and humidity a bit different. Some can handle it better than others and your body can actually adjust and adapt to heat and humidity within 3 weeks bringing it back closer to the normal ranges McMillan gives.

A lot of this becomes more of an art than a science. None of the calculators are going to give you perfect exact results, but they should be used as a guide. A lot of this you will learn to adjust as you get to know how your body functions in relation to what a particular calculator suggests to you. It's a lot like the calculator MFP and other sites give when you are trying to figure out how many calories you should eat in a day. None of them are perfect, but they can be used as a tool as you learn how your body functions and if I eat this much below or above what the calculator gives me, I can still loose or maintain.

But the over lap occurs because the ranges for each catagory are wide. If you find that your tempo can be done at the lower part of the range, then you should be able to run your intervals at the lower range as well. If you are feeling a little bit sore from your workout 2 or 3 days ago or a bad day at work, then your tempo may be in the higher part of the range, and thus will carry over in the steady state and interval paces as well.

I hope this makes it more clearer.

7lenny7 wrote: »

Forget the imagination, I'm raiding my change jar before tonight's run.

LOL I dare you to actually do it.

AlexPaige wrote: »

So I'm sick of converting to mi for no good reason here, so I originally said 40 mi was my goal....well I'll just say 65 km
9-1: 3.08 km...everything was going fine for the first 2k. First run after a very well-fed and drank vacation (seriously, a rib-eye the size of my forearm for the last dinner). 2.5k, I notice how tight my right leg feels. I loosen up my shoe and that does nothing. I started walking, and tried to pick back up but I was in so much pain I had to call my mom for rescue. Ugh.
9-4: 4.24 km...Wanted to take it slow today so as not to agitate anything (foam-rolled the sheet outta my leg the other day). Very hot, not a fun run at all. Slow paced, so slow it was on par with my c25k week 7 overall pacing which INCLUDES the 10 minute warmup/cooldown. Boo.

4.54/40

So sorry to hear about the poor performace. Hope it goes better next time. And many folks here go by km's which is fine.

ACSL3 wrote: »

Thank you for all the info! Definitely something I will look over and I have more to learn about. I'm only running about 10 miles per week right now. I have a training plan for a 27k that I was going to do in Nov but the race was cancelled. I was going to start that training plan on Monday. It was developed by a friend of mine who runs marathons. But I'm going to look over it more and see if the increases in distance fit what you're talking about. Now I'm almost worried that I don't have enough time between now and April since I'm not running much right now. Thanks again!

Welcome and good luck. Sorry about your race being cancelled.