Gaining muscle mass/without spilling over in bodyfat %?
gains_123
Posts: 14 Member
Little background story - recently started going to the gym CONSISTENTLY I say this because I have been going for 2 years .. But only working out maybe 3 days one week , take 3 weeks off ect. Never gone for a month straight.
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
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Replies
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Little background story - recently started going to the gym CONSISTENTLY I say this because I have been going for 2 years .. But only working out maybe 3 days one week , take 3 weeks off ect. Never gone for a month straight.
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
Do you know what your body fat % is at the moment? Its hard enough to keep fat at bay while you are bulking but if you are bulking slowly, you should gain the same amount of muscle and fat at the same time.0 -
My advice is if you'll be taking that many days off, then work out more muscle groups per day and/or do cardio on days you don't lift.0
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My advice is if you'll be taking that many days off, then work out more muscle groups per day and/or do cardio on days you don't lift.
Agree.. if the OP is only working out 3 days a week, it would be probably best spent doing full body workouts.
Also, regarding the fat... if you want to add fat, it's inevitable to gain fat, regardless of your preference. You will have to cycle between bulks/cuts a few times to achieve the results you want. And unfortunately, this is one of those psychological aspects (being ok with adding fat) that has to be dealt with during a bulk.
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Think i should switch and do
Chest/tris
Back/bis
Day off
Shoulders/abs
Legs
Day off
Day off
Relatively noob so I appreciate thoughts and opinions on a good split. I train in high volume and up the weights on my lifts each week. Thanks!
Ps. If I made a rough guess I'd say my bf is hanging around 20%0 -
Think i should switch and do
Chest/tris
Back/bis
Day off
Shoulders/abs
Legs
Day off
Day off
Relatively noob so I appreciate thoughts and opinions on a good split. I train in high volume and up the weights on my lifts each week. Thanks!
Ps. If I made a rough guess I'd say my bf is hanging around 20%
If you're a noob to lifting then don't bother with such a split... it's inefficient for a noob. PMS takes 48 hours (I think?), leaving out major muscle groups like that is a waste.
PHUL or ICF 5x5 could be pretty good for you.0 -
Going to test out PHUL. Thanks for suggestions!
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I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
wut????0 -
I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
wut????
^ my thoughts exactly haha.
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I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
wut????
^ my thoughts exactly haha.
How much muscle do you think you can pack on in a year naturally without Gear?
Are we talking about a new lifter, or an experienced lifter?0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
wut????
^ my thoughts exactly haha.
How much muscle do you think you can pack on in a year naturally without Gear?
Are we talking about a new lifter, or an experienced lifter?
1-2 years of solid lifting.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess....
5lb of muscle in a year??0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
wut????
^ my thoughts exactly haha.
How much muscle do you think you can pack on in a year naturally without Gear?
Are we talking about a new lifter, or an experienced lifter?
1-2 years of solid lifting.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess....
5lb of muscle in a year??
Lol, I thought you had an opinion on the subject. I thought you were going to say 5-10lbs or something.
nah I just came here because im browsin'0 -
Hardly an expert at anything fitness related.
So you're going to judge someone's knowledge off of their avatar? Lmao, clearly haven't been around MFP for long.
@ndj1979 is actually pretty damn knowledgeable. I don't know what his avatar or body has to do with that?
Mark Rippetoe isn't in "great shape" by the looks of it, but damn, his advice is pretty good? No?
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Hardly an expert at anything fitness related.
So you're going to judge someone's knowledge off of their avatar? Lmao, clearly haven't been around MFP for long.
@ndj1979 is actually pretty damn knowledgeable. I don't know what his avatar or body has to do with that?
Mark Rippetoe isn't in "great shape" by the looks of it, but damn, his advice is pretty good? No?
How could you pass out advise that you have not lived.
Stop being a fool.
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »Hardly an expert at anything fitness related.
So you're going to judge someone's knowledge off of their avatar? Lmao, clearly haven't been around MFP for long.
@ndj1979 is actually pretty damn knowledgeable. I don't know what his avatar or body has to do with that?
Mark Rippetoe isn't in "great shape" by the looks of it, but damn, his advice is pretty good? No?
How could you pass out advise that you have not lived.
I'll tell you some advise that it seems... you have not lived, applied, or even be told.
Stop being a fool.
Makes no sense.
I'll just correct that for ya
EDIT: corrected.
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Thanks!
The point is why would you listen to a guy that has never been lean and has no muscle mass advise you on lean bulking.
Fitness is full of smoke and mirrors. It's hard enough getting decent advise.I would try to only get so fat as to barely being able to see top set of abs. Maybe 13% bf at most. Muscle gain is slow, like 5lbs per year after the initial year of training. Gaining 20lbs would just be fat and when you cut back down you will loose fat and muscle. Stay within striking distance of that makes any sense.
This is what you call decent advice?
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Thanks!
The point is why would you listen to a guy that has never been lean and has no muscle mass advise you on lean bulking.
Fitness is full of smoke and mirrors. It's hard enough getting decent advise.
Not really a relevant argument to be totally honest..... Would you take advice from Mark Rippetoe without knowing his background? Doesn't have a very impressive physique now days, but is still highly knowledgeable... same can be said for many other seasoned coaches. Lyle McDonald doesn't have an incredible physique, but he is highly knowledgeable as well and is recommended as a top resource in the industry.0 -
OP post pics0
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The guy is 20%bf at 5'10" 186. His lean mass is in the 140's. He has no muscle mass. How is bulking going to help. To be aesthetic which is what it seems like he wants. He will be better off cutting down to 10-12%bf and then doing mini bulks. It will take years to put on a solid say 20lbs of muscle if even possible for this guy. Sound to me like he doesn't have bodybuilder genetics but he can still look good and that is not by getting fatter.
Pretty big assumption considering he mentioned that he has never been consistent or serious about lifting in the past. I would bet he hasn't even exhausted newb gains.0 -
The guy is 20%bf at 5'10" 186. His lean mass is in the 140's. He has no muscle mass. How is bulking going to help. To be aesthetic which is what it seems like he wants. He will be better off cutting down to 10-12%bf and then doing mini bulks. It will take years to put on a solid say 20lbs of muscle if even possible for this guy. Sound to me like he doesn't have bodybuilder genetics but he can still look good and that is not by getting fatter.
You missed an important point, that he hasn't actually dedicated time to building mass (an admission he makes in the beginning of his post). Someone who has been lifting for a week or two then taking several weeks off is still capable of noob type gains. You're right that bulking at 20% is a bad idea.0 -
Thanks!
The point is why would you listen to a guy that has never been lean and has no muscle mass advise you on lean bulking.
Fitness is full of smoke and mirrors. It's hard enough getting decent advise.
There are plenty of people who have no knowledge of nutrtion or science but are fairly ripped.. know why, they can follow a designed plan.
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Little background story - recently started going to the gym CONSISTENTLY I say this because I have been going for 2 years .. But only working out maybe 3 days one week , take 3 weeks off ect. Never gone for a month straight.
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
No, he didn't say consistent. Lifting for a week and then skipping the next three isn't consistency. I agree with not bulking at a high body fat percentage. I disagree with your accusations of his genetic potential and ability to gain.
Lyle was admittedly bipolar, doesn't mean hid information is sub par.0 -
Thanks!
The point is why would you listen to a guy that has never been lean and has no muscle mass advise you on lean bulking.
Fitness is full of smoke and mirrors. It's hard enough getting decent advise.
There are plenty of people who have no knowledge of nutrtion or science but are fairly ripped.. know why, they can follow a designed plan.
Agree, I hire coaches for contest prep.
I have a really good example of a guy that has been following a designed plan with a good training for years and looks OK but will probably never look awesome. If your on Instagram look up @Theonlinecoach and his partner @tankst3r I have met these guys a few times. @TheOnlineCoach is awesome looking while his partner is not bad but not great. This is where genetics play a huge role.
So lets look at this constructively. .. you hired a professional since you don't have the knowledge to contest prep on your own, which is cool, especially if it was a new goal of yours. But yet, you can sit back and judge others because they arent as big as you (which for you big = knowledge). Maybe it would be best for you to step back an evaluate your thought process and realize not everyone wants to be big like you. Some of us have goals based on personal interest and life.
And to address the OP, no he shouldnt bulk at 20%, it would be better to be at least sub 15 or even 12.
Also, maybe you should go look at alan aragon and see how ripped he his and then question his knowledge based on those looks.0 -
OP, ignore the nonsense about only being able to gain 5 pounds lean mass (lol) and do a little reading. I recommend you pick up a few books
Starting Strength - Mark Rippetoe
Beyond Brawn - don't remember
5/3/1 - Jim Wendler
And get online and really pay attention to Alan Aragon and Layne Norton.
That is enough to get you started. But honestly, before you do an isolation split program, get on a consistent compound lift barbell program. Add in isolation work after you've mastered the basics.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Little background story - recently started going to the gym CONSISTENTLY I say this because I have been going for 2 years .. But only working out maybe 3 days one week , take 3 weeks off ect. Never gone for a month straight.
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
No, he didn't say consistent. Lifting for a week and then skipping the next three isn't consistency. I agree with not bulking at a high body fat percentage. I disagree with your accusations of his genetic potential and ability to gain.
Lyle was admittedly bipolar, doesn't mean hid information is sub par.
Now another question, have you seen a guy that was a twig, skinny fat type guy gain an impressive amount of muscle in 1-2 years without extreme dedication naturally?
I don't see your point?0 -
I
Here is what I'm talking about. You can't gain enough muscle
To over come your fat. You have to eliminate the fat. This is my recent cut a few months ago. People find it hard to believe I'm still not 160-170lbs.
What does this have to do with potential to gain for an individual that has not been lifting consistently and more than likely not exhausted beginner stages?0 -
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I
Here is what I'm talking about. You can't gain enough muscle
To over come your fat. You have to eliminate the fat. This is my recent cut a few months ago. People find it hard to believe I'm still not 160-170lbs.
Are you short?
ETA: I ask this because I'm a female who is 5'8" and my lean mass is 153 pounds. I started lifting in 2012 and competed in my first show in 2013. I have fat genetics, my entire family is obese.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Little background story - recently started going to the gym CONSISTENTLY I say this because I have been going for 2 years .. But only working out maybe 3 days one week , take 3 weeks off ect. Never gone for a month straight.
Now diet wise I've been eating roughly 3400 calories a day. 370-400 carbs, 70-85 grams of fat, 250-270 grams of protein. I'm 24 yr old male 5'10 186lbs. Never been fat in my life always was petite ,. I have a noticeably pudgier face/ lower stomach appears a bit pudgy as well, which I had expected a bit with the caloric surplus. I don't like the fat and I don't want it to get too out of control but I'm not to the point where I want to start cutting because I haven't put on the muscle I want yet. If that makes sense.
My routine looks like this
Go to the gym early in the morning fasted.
Chest/biceps
Day off
Back/triceps
Day off
Calves/abs
Shoulders
Day off
Quads/hams
Day off
Day off
Usually have a protein shake after work out and a grape juice/5g creatine. 40min -1 hour later eat a meal.
So anyways sorry for the super long post, my overall question is should I continue down the path I am and see if I see results or is there any advice on gaining lean mass while keeping body fat at bay. Thanks,
No, he didn't say consistent. Lifting for a week and then skipping the next three isn't consistency. I agree with not bulking at a high body fat percentage. I disagree with your accusations of his genetic potential and ability to gain.
Lyle was admittedly bipolar, doesn't mean hid information is sub par.
Now another question, have you seen a guy that was a twig, skinny fat type guy gain an impressive amount of muscle in 1-2 years without extreme dedication naturally?
I don't see your point?
Me either!0 -
The quest he is asking should and can he do a lean bulk. No one seems to think that is a bad idea.
No one thinks he is fat already. 20%bf is bulk enough. What when he is 200lbs 25%bf he will look better.
Sure he needs a solid training and nutrition plan. I see it all day every day the guy that wants to look ripped but thinks he needs to do It by bulking and adding more muscle when most of the time they just need to diet.
My advise is to not bulk but cut slowly and get his macros correct. Get down to a weight where your abs are visible at least faintly. Then do mini bulks and cuts to add muscle mass.
A few of us have already agreed with you that bulking while being over-fat is not suggested since i can lead to an unfavorable fat:muscle growth situation (he is more primed to gain fat). The research i have seen would suggest the leaner you are the more primed your body would be to achieve muscle gains. So yes, its a bad idea to bulk at 20%. Its probably better to cut another 5 to 10% body fat prior to bulking.
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