Need some running advice

I've been running on and off for quite a while. Usually I run outside, and my typical run is 3.2 miles...2 or 3 times a week. I'm slow...usually somewhere in the 12 minute mile ballpark...sometimes a little faster, sometimes a little slower. I have in the past couple of months done two or three 5-6 mile runs...however these were on a treadmill set at a 12 minute mile pace and treadmill running is much easier than outside. This is to give you some background on my current fitness level. I'm also 44, female, and a bit heavy for a runner...high 160's currently, though at 5'10" that is a "normal" BMI, just on the upper end.

My question is this: I want to get faster. Is it better for me to focus on just adding distance while running at an easy pace or to focus more on shorter distances at a faster pace, or some combination of the two? I have run intervals at times in the past, and liked that. However, I have read that speed work should not be done unless you have already built up a sufficient aerobic base. I read conflicting things on what exactly this base mileage is. Do I need to be consistently running 5-6 miles at a time? Or is my current 3.2 miles enough? Another concern for me is that I don't want an injury, and I know speed work can make that a little more likely. I had a nagging calf injury that bothered me on and off for several months...it seems healed now and hasn't acted up in the past month or so, but I don't want to push it.

Thanks for your advice.

«134

Replies

  • SoleSister1234
    SoleSister1234 Posts: 16 Member
    I found a 6-week half-marathon training schedule that combines sprint runs, hill runs, weight training, flexibility, slow jogs and race pace runs on different days. I'm hoping the variety will improve both my speed and endurance. I start today, so I will let you know in a few weeks. ;o) I would say listen to your body to avoid injury.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    You need to focus on increasing your mileage at this point. Do not worry about speed. It will come naturally as you run more. The rule of thumb is not increase your weekly mileage by more than 10% at a time. Start by adding a little bit of distance to one run each week. One you get comfortable with running up to 5 miles, then try and add another day of running each week. You will begin to notice natural improvements in your pace just by virtue of running more miles. When you reach a point where you are comfortably running 20+ miles per week, then you can look into adding a bit of speed work. But the most critical thing is to build a good aerobic base and that is done by running slow, steady miles (you should be running at a pace where you are able to have a conversation. If you are gasping for breath, you are running too fast). Good luck!!
  • questionfear
    questionfear Posts: 527 Member
    It's probably best to start running intervals when you can comfortably do a few 4-5 mile runs per week. Mostly because in order to get in serious intervals, you're probably looking at a 1-mile warmup, 1-2 miles of intervals (between the intervals and the rest periods/slow walking or running), and then a 1-mile cooldown.

    What you CAN do, in addition to adding longer runs, is just randomly speeding up on your regular runs. So you run for a mile, then make the second mile speed play-run as hard as possible to the corner, then slow run until your breathing slows down, then do the same. Not structured speedwork, but making it more of a fun game.

    Longer runs and speed play should help, and then intervals will give you an additional push.

    I, too, am a slow runner. At my fastest I could do 9 minute miles for a 5k. Volume and speed play are how I got there (I set my 5k personal best after training for a half marathon).
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
    If you're serious, you can make some very good improvements with low risk of injury. Your weight is fine - just make sure you have proper running shoes.

    Frequency and mileage is king for the next 6 months. Run 5-6 times a week but build the total weekly mileage slowly. A simple distance guide for a week is 3-2-1 . So try three 2 mile runs, two 3 mile runs and one 4 mile run in a week. One day off. Then if something comes up and you miss a 2nd day it's not the end of the world. Don't race just be consistent for a few months and you'll be stunned how much faster you will get.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    It sounds like the consensus is I need to add mileage before I make speed a priority. Alright, that sounds like a good plan. Now I just have to go do it.

    Thanks all.
  • sarakenna12
    sarakenna12 Posts: 37 Member
    I recommend signing up for a race. 5k is a great first race distance. You will be surprised how much faster you are when you run with others in a race setting! Last weekend I ran a half marathon, and I told myself to expect to run 12 min miles (based on my speed during training). I ended up averaging 10.5 min miles during the race. I was shocked.

    As for training for speed, an experienced friend told me this: Use short distances to work on speed (like 2-3 miles). Warm up for a mile, then run as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles, then cool down for the remainder of the run. Also, work hills into your weekly routine. Hill runs should also be short (2 miles or so). Don't worry about speed during the hill runs, just work on not stopping the entire time! Your speed will improve naturally by adding these types of runs into your workout.
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
    As for training for speed, an experienced friend told me this: Use short distances to work on speed (like 2-3 miles). Warm up for a mile, then run as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles, then cool down for the remainder of the run. Also, work hills into your weekly routine. Hill runs should also be short (2 miles or so). Don't worry about speed during the hill runs, just work on not stopping the entire time! Your speed will improve naturally by adding these types of runs into your workout.

    No. None of this. The key part is "experienced" friend. This stuff is icing on the cake. OP has no cake.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    OP, you need lots and lots of easy miles. Speed work and intervals are just icing on the cake. You need to bake the cake first. A thin cracker with icing isn't as nice as a big fluffy cake with icing. Improve your base and then work on the other stuff as a small addition to the real work. At least 80% of your miles should be easy running.

    Just run more easy miles.

  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,449 Member
    Okay, now I want a piece of cake. :D
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    edited October 2015
    mmmmmmm cake....
    7591457828_5c634a01ca_o.gif?w=700&h=574
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
    As for training for speed, an experienced friend told me this: Use short distances to work on speed (like 2-3 miles). Warm up for a mile, then run as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles, then cool down for the remainder of the run. Also, work hills into your weekly routine. Hill runs should also be short (2 miles or so). Don't worry about speed during the hill runs, just work on not stopping the entire time! Your speed will improve naturally by adding these types of runs into your workout.

    I...I don't even know what this would do for an experienced runner. Intervals should be done at a pace where you can repeat the distance 3, 4, or 5 times at least. tempo runs should be done below VO2max threshold and for a longer time. "running as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles and then cooling down" is just spinning your wheels. An all-out mile is something usually done with your buddies for fun.

    OP, get your base built up. Don't worry about speed work right now.

  • mwyvr
    mwyvr Posts: 1,883 Member
    OP, get your base built up. Don't worry about speed work right now.

    Agreed!

    @MoiAussi93 should focus on continuing to build a broader base using easy / foundational running at a pace at which the runner can hold something of a conversation out loud with a partner, dog, or the trees. A broader base of running helps improve aerobic capacity and the body strengthens itself by adapting to the stresses.

    Since @MoiAussi93 can already run 5 - 6 miles on a treadmill, that's the perfect first target to reach for outside. Maybe stretch your next outside run from 3.2 to 4 miles. Repeat the distance on your next run. Still feeling good? Great, add a bit more to a run next week. And so on. Listen to your body and back off if need be until ready to progress.

    If @MoiAussi93 wants to do anything else at the same time, IMO a good next step would be to ensure you are turning your feet over quickly enough to hit an appropriate cadence. Many runners turn their feet over too slowly and therefore take too long a stride for a given pace; this leads to lower cadence (foot strikes per minute) and generally more force exerted on each strike.

    You should be aiming for a cadence approaching 180 strikes per minute (90 per foot) on a level course. If you don't have a running watch that can measure cadence, capture it manually by counting just one foot for 30 seconds, multiply that number by four = SPM for both feet. Many novice / recreational runners who haven't addressed this yet will probably find their cadence is somewhere between 150-165 SPM.

    (Alternatively you can find a metronome app for a smart phone that you might use to determine what your cadence is and work towards a more appropriate cadence.)

    Picking up cadence (don't try to hit 180 straight away) while maintaining the same conversational pace will almost automatically improve running form by ensuring the foot is landing more under the body, reducing stress on the body and reducing the chance of injury.

    By the time the OP has built up a bigger base and improved cadence it's highly likely she *will* be running faster even before taking on any specific speed work, and her body will be ready for it. :smile:
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    I recommend signing up for a race. 5k is a great first race distance. You will be surprised how much faster you are when you run with others in a race setting! Last weekend I ran a half marathon, and I told myself to expect to run 12 min miles (based on my speed during training). I ended up averaging 10.5 min miles during the race. I was shocked.

    As for training for speed, an experienced friend told me this: Use short distances to work on speed (like 2-3 miles). Warm up for a mile, then run as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles, then cool down for the remainder of the run. Also, work hills into your weekly routine. Hill runs should also be short (2 miles or so). Don't worry about speed during the hill runs, just work on not stopping the entire time! Your speed will improve naturally by adding these types of runs into your workout.

    I ran a 5k a couple of years ago...the problem is I am still at basically the same speed. I haven't progressed. Granted, I have not been consistent and have taken some time off for injuries and, to be honest, laziness. I know I need to be more consistent with it to progress, and now I'm ready to do that.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
    I say get a good GPS running app for your phone so you can know your mileage and most will allow you to log your runs so you can review mileage and speed. Work on getting the miles where you want them and settle in to get a comfort level with it. Then push a bit on the first mile to get below your normal pace. Keep expanding on how long you push and how fast the pace is. Eventually you get that great feeling of wow that was a great run!
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    gdyment wrote: »
    As for training for speed, an experienced friend told me this: Use short distances to work on speed (like 2-3 miles). Warm up for a mile, then run as fast as you can for 1-1.5 miles, then cool down for the remainder of the run. Also, work hills into your weekly routine. Hill runs should also be short (2 miles or so). Don't worry about speed during the hill runs, just work on not stopping the entire time! Your speed will improve naturally by adding these types of runs into your workout.

    No. None of this. The key part is "experienced" friend. This stuff is icing on the cake. OP has no cake.
    _Waffle_ wrote: »
    OP, you need lots and lots of easy miles. Speed work and intervals are just icing on the cake. You need to bake the cake first. A thin cracker with icing isn't as nice as a big fluffy cake with icing. Improve your base and then work on the other stuff as a small addition to the real work. At least 80% of your miles should be easy running.

    Just run more easy miles.

    Okay...I need cake. I need to get baking!

    Seriously though, I am taking the advice. I am going to focus on building distance for now, and run a bit more frequently.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    mwyvr wrote: »
    OP, get your base built up. Don't worry about speed work right now.

    Agreed!

    @MoiAussi93 should focus on continuing to build a broader base using easy / foundational running at a pace at which the runner can hold something of a conversation out loud with a partner, dog, or the trees. A broader base of running helps improve aerobic capacity and the body strengthens itself by adapting to the stresses.

    Since @MoiAussi93 can already run 5 - 6 miles on a treadmill, that's the perfect first target to reach for outside. Maybe stretch your next outside run from 3.2 to 4 miles. Repeat the distance on your next run. Still feeling good? Great, add a bit more to a run next week. And so on. Listen to your body and back off if need be until ready to progress.

    If @MoiAussi93 wants to do anything else at the same time, IMO a good next step would be to ensure you are turning your feet over quickly enough to hit an appropriate cadence. Many runners turn their feet over too slowly and therefore take too long a stride for a given pace; this leads to lower cadence (foot strikes per minute) and generally more force exerted on each strike.

    You should be aiming for a cadence approaching 180 strikes per minute (90 per foot) on a level course. If you don't have a running watch that can measure cadence, capture it manually by counting just one foot for 30 seconds, multiply that number by four = SPM for both feet. Many novice / recreational runners who haven't addressed this yet will probably find their cadence is somewhere between 150-165 SPM.

    (Alternatively you can find a metronome app for a smart phone that you might use to determine what your cadence is and work towards a more appropriate cadence.)

    Picking up cadence (don't try to hit 180 straight away) while maintaining the same conversational pace will almost automatically improve running form by ensuring the foot is landing more under the body, reducing stress on the body and reducing the chance of injury.

    By the time the OP has built up a bigger base and improved cadence it's highly likely she *will* be running faster even before taking on any specific speed work, and her body will be ready for it. :smile:

    Thanks, lots of good advice here. I had read an article about cadence a while back, and counted mine while out for a run. I don't recall the number, but I do remember that it was significantly slower than the recommended 180. I will test it again soon, and try to start gradually bringing it up.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    rsclause wrote: »
    I say get a good GPS running app for your phone so you can know your mileage and most will allow you to log your runs so you can review mileage and speed. Work on getting the miles where you want them and settle in to get a comfort level with it. Then push a bit on the first mile to get below your normal pace. Keep expanding on how long you push and how fast the pace is. Eventually you get that great feeling of wow that was a great run!

    I have runkeeper and use that. It is great for tracking what I'm doing. It seems the key now is just to run more and build up the mileage gradually.
  • Charliegottheruns
    Charliegottheruns Posts: 287 Member
    Set a goal. do you wanna run 1 mile in 10 minutes ? 3 miles in 30 minutes ? 10 miles in 60 minutes? You just said faster and most said build more miles first. lol !
    Set a distance, a time, and a date, then break it down into small manageable goals. A running program is a complete package, but first you need a goal.
    Any other questions, you know where to find me.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    Set a goal. do you wanna run 1 mile in 10 minutes ? 3 miles in 30 minutes ? 10 miles in 60 minutes? You just said faster and most said build more miles first. lol !
    Set a distance, a time, and a date, then break it down into small manageable goals. A running program is a complete package, but first you need a goal.
    Any other questions, you know where to find me.

    We didn't say do more miles first. We said that more miles was definitively the answer.

    I'm sure the OP can run a 10 minute/mile pace for 100 yards. The issue isn't them obtaining that speed. The issue is endurance and maintaining that speed. How do you keep doing that for the next 100 yards, then for a mile, then for 2 and 3 miles. You have to build your endurance system.

    A good goal would be a 5k some time out in the future. That's a good measuring stick for progress but for the most part just relax and enjoy running.
  • Charliegottheruns
    Charliegottheruns Posts: 287 Member
    _Waffle_ wrote: »
    Set a goal. do you wanna run 1 mile in 10 minutes ? 3 miles in 30 minutes ? 10 miles in 60 minutes? You just said faster and most said build more miles first. lol !
    Set a distance, a time, and a date, then break it down into small manageable goals. A running program is a complete package, but first you need a goal.
    Any other questions, you know where to find me.

    We didn't say do more miles first. We said that more miles was definitively the answer.

    I'm sure the OP can run a 10 minute/mile pace for 100 yards. The issue isn't them obtaining that speed. The issue is endurance and maintaining that speed. How do you keep doing that for the next 100 yards, then for a mile, then for 2 and 3 miles. You have to build your endurance system.

    A good goal would be a 5k some time out in the future. That's a good measuring stick for progress but for the most part just relax and enjoy running.

    LOL is that your goal or her goal?