carbs
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So, this is where I get confused when stats like this are bandied round
Which came first? Insulin resistance or being overweight?
What proportion of people who lose the weight, by any means, are insulin resistant or even pre-diabetic
Is it causative or correlation?
You can be thin and insulin resistant, fat and insulin sensitive and all stations in between.
In one analysis civil servants with a certain diet profile were much more likely to become diabetic and were also more overweight, likely to smoke etc etc. In the highest quartile 10% of them became diabetic compared to 3.6% in the lowest quartile. In this case I think we would assume the diet profile led to the deterioration of health as all of the corrections for other factors did not eliminate the trend.
This I know on a case by case basis
I just don't think this 52% of US population should be used to support IR as the cause of obesity issues rather than as a symptom of the obesity issues
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Refined/processed cabs are bad, but carbs from veggies and occasional fruits are ok in moderation.0
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I just don't think this 52% of US population should be used to support IR as the cause of obesity issues rather than as a symptom of the obesity issues
With perhaps 20%+ of kids having IR it does look like it's implicated in the onset / progression of obesity, but my search for the clear explanation / timeline continues....0 -
OP--what have you heard about carbs which make them bad? Is there a class of carbohydrates which may be bad relative to their classes or classifications or food types or processed levels?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/half-of-us-adults-have-diabetes-or-high-risk-prediabetes/
Anybody bother to read this? Type 2 diabetes 9% diagnosed 5% undiagnosed; pre diabetic 2% diagnosed and 36% undiagnosed. So 11% is now 52%? Having fun with numbers. Since the numbers were moved lower for determination of pre diabetes anybody know the earlier numbers prior to the change? As a comparison BITD anybody remember when the US medical profession wanted to lower the overall cholesterol number? What were the drivers than and what would be the driver now of moving a marker lower for pre diabetes?
I wonder how many followers of 80-10-10 (80% carbs) are pre diabetic and do not know it? Hmmm. . . .0 -
I just don't think this 52% of US population should be used to support IR as the cause of obesity issues rather than as a symptom of the obesity issues
With perhaps 20%+ of kids having IR it does look like it's implicated in the onset / progression of obesity, but my search for the clear explanation / timeline continues....
If that was stated as population of children, percentage of obese / non-obese children and percentage of IR/non IR children within those percentages then there might be something of interest to discuss...don't you think?
Edit: Sorry, just noticed that was a live link to a meta study ...don't have time to read it right now, will come back to it ..but on a quick scan I noted this paragraph
"Overweight or obesity is an important factor influencing the prevalence of IR. The effect of overweight or obesity on IR is clearly observed in all presented studies as prevalence rates in overweight or obese children and adolescents were reported to be higher than in normal weight children and adolescents (Figure 3(b)). Most studies (7 out 11 studies presenting weight specific prevalence rates) not only differentiated between normal weight and overweight/obesity, but also stratified into normal weight, overweight, and obese children and adolescents [14, 16, 20, 23, 25, 26, 29]. These studies show an increased prevalence in obese children compared to overweight children. In the study by Caserta et al., odds ratios for IR were calculated for obese and overweight boys and girls comparing to their normal weight peers. The odds ratios of 9.1 (95% confidence interval 4.0–20.4) and 13.2 (4.7–36.9) were reported for obese boys and girls and lower odds ratios of 2.4 (1.2–4.9) and 6.0 (3.1–11.9) were reported for overweight boys and girls, respectively [20]. These results show that with normal weight increasing to obesity the prevalence of IR is rising."
I'd like to see the stats for normal weight too0 -
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Personal experience- I went on a low carb diet and lost weight fast due to ketosis. Couldn't sustain a low carb diet long term. Carbs aren't bad for you, they are part of a balanced diet.0
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I have lost weight by cutting down/out most added sugar, pasta, bread, rice and most other grains, desserts such as cookies or cake or brownies, snacky stuff like chips, crackers, etc. I have not cut carbs such as fruits and vegetables, and I do use flavored coffee creamer. For me this keeps my blood sugar more even and I don't have that sudden must-eat-everything-in-sight hunger. I also don't have the bloating and indigestion anymore, that I always get after eating any of those things. Pasta and rice (and other grains) are a lot of calories for not a lot of flavor. I'd rather eat my rice calories by having more of whatever it is I'm putting on the rice. Same with pasta -- I usually serve spaghetti sauce with meatballs with pasta, so I just have some meatballs alone, with veggies.
I know a lot of people here don't like to hear "good" and "bad" applied to foods, so let's just say that carbs (the ones I mentioned above) are high calorie foods. And you can eat other things to replace those calories if you give up some/most of those carbs. Also, for me, once I gave up bread I no longer craved bread and butter. Think about how many calories that is saving me! oy. lol
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Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Many people do not process high carb levels well, have family history of metabolic disorders like diabetes that they are trying to prevent or actually have signs of developing diabetes or are diagnosed with it. Lowering carbohydrate intake assists many stay healthy or resolve illnesses in addition to helping restrict calories to lose weight.
You hear a wide range of opinions because some people tolerate high levels of sugar/carbohydrates just fine. For some reason they think that their ability to eat high levels of sugar/carbohydrates should apply to every human without a doctors instructions to lower carb intake. Only you understand your dietary needs best.
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The reason MOST people say carbs are bad is because carbs are one of the recent scapegoats for obesity and people mistakenly believe that carbs are inherently fat-causing.
Fortunately guys like Guyenet and Krieger have thoroughly shot-down the insulin hypothesis (not to mention Aragon destroying Taubes in the UK debate).
That being said, it's incredibly important to match personal preference and satiety factors when structuring a diet, and some people may experience better appetite control by raising dietary fat and reducing carbohydrate intake. So for some people they have an easier time maintaining a calorie deficit on a lower carb intake.
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The reason MOST people say carbs are bad is because carbs are one of the recent scapegoats for obesity and people mistakenly believe that carbs are inherently fat-causing.
Fortunately guys like Guyenet and Krieger have thoroughly shot-down the insulin hypothesis (not to mention Aragon destroying Taubes in the UK debate).
That being said, it's incredibly important to match personal preference and satiety factors when structuring a diet, and some people may experience better appetite control by raising dietary fat and reducing carbohydrate intake. So for some people they have an easier time maintaining a calorie deficit on a lower carb intake.
Yes indeed
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Lots of bad information is out there.
For better information on nutrition, check out: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/
The healthy plate is a pretty good place to start. Note that it says WHOLE grains and limit refined grains. If you're not sure of the difference, learn it.
Focus on getting lots of nutrient dense vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, healthy fats and WHOLE grains, and fruit.0 -
ariana_eatsandlifts wrote: »Unless you have a medical condition, they're not.
even if you have a medical condition, carbs aren't necessarily bad when consumed in appropriate amounts and when better decisions are made in regards to what those carbs are.0 -
The reason MOST people say carbs are bad is because carbs are one of the recent scapegoats for obesity and people mistakenly believe that carbs are inherently fat-causing.
Fortunately guys like Guyenet and Krieger have thoroughly shot-down the insulin hypothesis (not to mention Aragon destroying Taubes in the UK debate).
That being said, it's incredibly important to match personal preference and satiety factors when structuring a diet, and some people may experience better appetite control by raising dietary fat and reducing carbohydrate intake. So for some people they have an easier time maintaining a calorie deficit on a lower carb intake.
Great post.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Lots of bad information is out there.
For better information on nutrition, check out: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/
The healthy plate is a pretty good place to start. Note that it says WHOLE grains and limit refined grains. If you're not sure of the difference, learn it.
Um, are you talking to me?0 -
Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
I never said carbs were bad or should be cut out of a diet. I said higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing for people with insulin resistance. Moderate carbs may work for some. I'm guessing that low carb would improve the health of most people with insulin resistance. JMO0 -
Monklady123 wrote: »I have lost weight by cutting down/out most added sugar, pasta, bread, rice and most other grains, desserts such as cookies or cake or brownies, snacky stuff like chips, crackers, etc. I have not cut carbs such as fruits and vegetables, and I do use flavored coffee creamer. For me this keeps my blood sugar more even and I don't have that sudden must-eat-everything-in-sight hunger. I also don't have the bloating and indigestion anymore, that I always get after eating any of those things. Pasta and rice (and other grains) are a lot of calories for not a lot of flavor. I'd rather eat my rice calories by having more of whatever it is I'm putting on the rice. Same with pasta -- I usually serve spaghetti sauce with meatballs with pasta, so I just have some meatballs alone, with veggies.
I know a lot of people here don't like to hear "good" and "bad" applied to foods, so let's just say that carbs (the ones I mentioned above) are high calorie foods. And you can eat other things to replace those calories if you give up some/most of those carbs. Also, for me, once I gave up bread I no longer craved bread and butter. Think about how many calories that is saving me! oy. lol
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
Half? Pretty sure you haven't proven that claim.
OP, carbs are fine, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Best wishes.
Nope, haven't proven it. It was an estimation. Insulin resistance would include prediabetes, T2D, PCOS, NAFLD, and some dementia. I'm guessing that is about half, probably largely the older half, but around half.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/half-of-us-adults-have-diabetes-or-high-risk-prediabetes/
If anything, you probably estimated too low! 52% have diabetes or prediabetes. And that does not even include those with PCOS or other conditions.
More than half the population has a very significant reason to reduce carbs.
The numbers are based on changes made to diagnosing pre-diabetes. I've listened to one specialist on it remark that the new criteria are poor because they're now using A1C to determine pre-diabetes and while there is evidence for A1C scores diagnosing diabetes, there is no strong evidence that the scores they're using actually predict someone being close to diabetes. As he stated, the only strong predictor of diabetes, enough in his opinion to warrant the term pre-diabetic, is a glucose challenge, but no one wants to do glucose challenges because they require hours of testing. So instead the recommendation has become A1C that is just a once, quick blood draw.0 -
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