Strength vs ISO
Samm471
Posts: 432 Member
okay here's a question I'm curious about .. If someone done strength training for say a year and someone else done ISO work for a year how would muscle/body shape differ? I'm doing 5x5 SL and heard that I can do this for as long as possible then move to madcow SL but if im looking to look a certain way ( more definition on certain muscles ) shouldn't I be looking to do something else? I know SL is for strength before anyone says it and ISO isn't but what would be the difference if both done the opposite for over a period of a year body shape/muscle wise?
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Replies
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You mean a strength program vs a hypertrophy program? The latter will generally give larger muscles (what some term a "more aesthetic look"), but since the emphasis is not on strength, the muscles will generally be weaker. Of course, there are hybrid approaches (such as PHAT).0
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You mean a strength program vs a hypertrophy program? The latter will generally give larger muscles (what some term a "more aesthetic look"), but since the emphasis is not on strength, the muscles will generally be weaker. Of course, there are hybrid approaches (such as PHAT).
Ah okay I see so strength obviously makes you stronger but won't give you that aesthetic look?0 -
Your diet is a large factor also.
@LolBroScience trains mainly for strength and looks pretty damn good and cut.0 -
_dracarys_ wrote: »Your diet is a large factor also.
@LolBroScience trains mainly for strength and looks pretty damn good and cut.
Wow I just had a little look at his pic there he looks amazing! I eat pretty clean keep my protein high. I know that obviously being a girl it's going to be harder to add muscle more than it is a guy but I always try and eat as clean and healthy as possible
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_dracarys_ wrote: »Your diet is a large factor also.
@LolBroScience trains mainly for strength and looks pretty damn good and cut.
Wow I just had a little look at his pic there he looks amazing! I eat pretty clean keep my protein high. I know that obviously being a girl it's going to be harder to add muscle more than it is a guy but I always try and eat as clean and healthy as possible
Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were a female!
I'm no expert on the subject, but I have this strength vs. aesthetics debate with myself often. For me, I've decided that I want to be strong first and hot second, so I train for strength using an 8/6/3 format with some accessories in the hypertrophy range. When my diet was on point (it hasn't been recently) and my lifting was consistent, I was pretty happy with how I looked. I also like a 4 day split bc I'm busy and don't want to dedicate more than that to the gym. One day a week, I run outside. I just got lazy this year and slipped, but I'm back at it.
Good luck!0 -
Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.0
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_dracarys_ wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Your diet is a large factor also.
@LolBroScience trains mainly for strength and looks pretty damn good and cut.
Wow I just had a little look at his pic there he looks amazing! I eat pretty clean keep my protein high. I know that obviously being a girl it's going to be harder to add muscle more than it is a guy but I always try and eat as clean and healthy as possible
Oh sorry, I didn't realize you were a female!
I'm no expert on the subject, but I have this strength vs. aesthetics debate with myself often. For me, I've decided that I want to be strong first and hot second, so I train for strength using an 8/6/3 format with some accessories in the hypertrophy range. When my diet was on point (it hasn't been recently) and my lifting was consistent, I was pretty happy with how I looked. I also like a 4 day split bc I'm busy and don't want to dedicate more than that to the gym. One day a week, I run outside. I just got lazy this year and slipped, but I'm back at it.
Good luck!
It's quite alright lol
strength I think is a big for me as I think it's good to be a strong female but I know eventually I will want to move to aesthetics to get an overall better look to my body. I'm pretty new and still have lost to learn but thanks for your input it has helped! 0 -
Guess it depends on what you mean by aesthetic. The extremely cut bodybuilder aesthetic isn't necessarily what you'd be looking for. Another possibility would be something like http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/ -- that is the build of of a woman who went whole-hog on the strength training route. Depends on what you're going for.0
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Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think the aesthetics debate for women is generally cardio vs weights, not compound vs iso. Unless you're trying to be a show competitor for looks, I think you'd be much better off doing a compound lifting program, with other accessory lifts as opposed to a program that is just all accessory/isolation movements. If you lift to get strong, you're going to have a pretty appealing muscle structure. From there it just comes down to what level of bodyfat you think you look best at, but that's pretty much all diet.0
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Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think the aesthetics debate for women is generally cardio vs weights, not compound vs iso. Unless you're trying to be a show competitor for looks, I think you'd be much better off doing a compound lifting program, with other accessory lifts as opposed to a program that is just all accessory/isolation movements. If you lift to get strong, you're going to have a pretty appealing muscle structure. From there it just comes down to what level of bodyfat you think you look best at, but that's pretty much all diet.
Okay and I am doing a strength programme the ICF 5x5 programme been doing it for 7/8 weeks but I'm on a deficit working my way up to maintenace due to only now weighing 120lbs I don't want to lose anymore weight just change body fat % I'm happy strength training but just wondered what the outcome would be if I started doing more Iso instead0 -
I use the SL5x5 compound lifts as a basis for my workouts and focus on strength but I've added hypertrophy accessory lifts (4 sets of 15 reps for each accessory move). I've been pretty happy with the results. My muscles are getting bigger and more defined since adding hypertrophy work but the strength increases from my compound lifts make me continue to want to come back and make me feel really good with what I'm accomplishing.0
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LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I concur... With a focus on compound lifts and some ISO if you would like.
Ultimate, your body composition & genetics will determine your look.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
^That's really all that needs to be said. Genetics will affect much of your appearance. Make sure your nutrition supports your goal as well.
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Strength = number of muscle fibers x control signal being pumped to them.
So you can get pretty big and have ppl somewhat smaller than you outlifting you if they have a better trained CNS. But at the same time, your CNS can only pump out so much juice and make so many connections; at some point, you just have to add more muscle fiber to get stronger, aka hypertrophy.
So do some strength work, and some hypertrophy work. I rotate days; It keeps it interesting and busts up plateaus before they happen.0 -
I use the SL5x5 compound lifts as a basis for my workouts and focus on strength but I've added hypertrophy accessory lifts (4 sets of 15 reps for each accessory move). I've been pretty happy with the results. My muscles are getting bigger and more defined since adding hypertrophy work but the strength increases from my compound lifts make me continue to want to come back and make me feel really good with what I'm accomplishing.
That's pretty cool! So you have split days then? And your hypertrophy work the weight does it just stay the same all the time?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I concur... With a focus on compound lifts and some ISO if you would like.
Ultimate, your body composition & genetics will determine your look.
Okay thanks I would like to do both. Maybe do 5x5 alone till the end of the year and then start adding some ISO into it possibly. I am new so it's all trial and error and I'm kinda worried I *kitten* it up or spin my wheels 0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I think I will and see how that goes .. You are a beast btw lol!! Some size 0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I concur... With a focus on compound lifts and some ISO if you would like.
Ultimate, your body composition & genetics will determine your look.
Okay thanks I would like to do both. Maybe do 5x5 alone till the end of the year and then start adding some ISO into it possibly. I am new so it's all trial and error and I'm kinda worried I *kitten* it up or spin my wheels
There are plenty of programs that use both. After ICF, maybe look at PHUL.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Strength = number of muscle fibers x control signal being pumped to them.
So you can get pretty big and have ppl somewhat smaller than you outlifting you if they have a better trained CNS. But at the same time, your CNS can only pump out so much juice and make so many connections; at some point, you just have to add more muscle fiber to get stronger, aka hypertrophy.
So do some strength work, and some hypertrophy work. I rotate days; It keeps it interesting and busts up plateaus before they happen.
Ahh okay I understand now I will give that a go make it a 2016 plan lol I just want to see how much strength I can gain doing 5x5 just a little longer I'm going to be going up to maintenace I'm
Not sure if eating at maintenance instead of a deficit would give me more strength? That's not why I'm going into maintenace btw it's simply because I don't want to drop anymore weight0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I concur... With a focus on compound lifts and some ISO if you would like.
Ultimate, your body composition & genetics will determine your look.
Okay thanks I would like to do both. Maybe do 5x5 alone till the end of the year and then start adding some ISO into it possibly. I am new so it's all trial and error and I'm kinda worried I *kitten* it up or spin my wheels
There are plenty of programs that use both. After ICF, maybe look at PHUL.
Brilliant! See that's what I was hoping someone would say that there is a programme that works both because I had been wondering this for a while but no one was able to tell me of anything like that so I'm defo gonna have a look at that. When you guys say about nutrition for goals what do you mean like I eat pretty good and I think I eat all the right stuff .. Psulemon you can see my diary I'm sure and maybe tell me where or if I'm going wrong somewhere? 0 -
Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think the aesthetics debate for women is generally cardio vs weights, not compound vs iso. Unless you're trying to be a show competitor for looks, I think you'd be much better off doing a compound lifting program, with other accessory lifts as opposed to a program that is just all accessory/isolation movements. If you lift to get strong, you're going to have a pretty appealing muscle structure. From there it just comes down to what level of bodyfat you think you look best at, but that's pretty much all diet.
What are you basing this on?0 -
The differences in size gain results between "strength" training and "hypertrophy" training are largely overstated.0
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LolBroScience wrote: »Too many factors to be considered, but if you want an easy answer.... do a mix of both to cover all basis.
I concur... With a focus on compound lifts and some ISO if you would like.
Ultimate, your body composition & genetics will determine your look.
Okay thanks I would like to do both. Maybe do 5x5 alone till the end of the year and then start adding some ISO into it possibly. I am new so it's all trial and error and I'm kinda worried I *kitten* it up or spin my wheels
There are plenty of programs that use both. After ICF, maybe look at PHUL.
Brilliant! See that's what I was hoping someone would say that there is a programme that works both because I had been wondering this for a while but no one was able to tell me of anything like that so I'm defo gonna have a look at that. When you guys say about nutrition for goals what do you mean like I eat pretty good and I think I eat all the right stuff .. Psulemon you can see my diary I'm sure and maybe tell me where or if I'm going wrong somewhere?
Your diary looks fine. The biggest concern is generally protein at .8 -1g per lb of lean body mass and a small to moderate deficit.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Strength = number of muscle fibers x control signal being pumped to them.
So you can get pretty big and have ppl somewhat smaller than you outlifting you if they have a better trained CNS. But at the same time, your CNS can only pump out so much juice and make so many connections; at some point, you just have to add more muscle fiber to get stronger, aka hypertrophy.
So do some strength work, and some hypertrophy work. I rotate days; It keeps it interesting and busts up plateaus before they happen.
Ahh okay I understand now I will give that a go make it a 2016 plan lol I just want to see how much strength I can gain doing 5x5 just a little longer I'm going to be going up to maintenace I'm
Not sure if eating at maintenance instead of a deficit would give me more strength? That's not why I'm going into maintenace btw it's simply because I don't want to drop anymore weight
erm....not entirely sure how to answer. If you aren't in a calorie surplus, the vast majority of the strength increases you experience will be from improved CNS connection since your body doesn't really have any extra energy left over to synthesize new muscle fiber. Eating more calories won't make you stronger, per se, progressive overload and a strong drive to hit an extra rep on every set will.0 -
I use the SL5x5 compound lifts as a basis for my workouts and focus on strength but I've added hypertrophy accessory lifts (4 sets of 15 reps for each accessory move). I've been pretty happy with the results. My muscles are getting bigger and more defined since adding hypertrophy work but the strength increases from my compound lifts make me continue to want to come back and make me feel really good with what I'm accomplishing.
That's pretty cool! So you have split days then? And your hypertrophy work the weight does it just stay the same all the time?
Thanks!
Yeah I set my workouts up as follows:
1. Chest - w/ bench & squats
2. Back - w/ deadlifts and rows
3. Arms - w/ squats
4. Shoulders - w/ deadlifts & OHP
5. Legs - w/ squats
So, I don't do OHP, Bench, and rows as much as SL5x5 would do but it's working for me so I'm happy. All compounds are 5x5 and I change weights on my 4x15 hypertrophy workouts as needed. The goal is to just be able to handle 15 reps in each set. I also usually change those moves every 6-8 weeks.0 -
Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I think the aesthetics debate for women is generally cardio vs weights, not compound vs iso. Unless you're trying to be a show competitor for looks, I think you'd be much better off doing a compound lifting program, with other accessory lifts as opposed to a program that is just all accessory/isolation movements. If you lift to get strong, you're going to have a pretty appealing muscle structure. From there it just comes down to what level of bodyfat you think you look best at, but that's pretty much all diet.
What are you basing this on?
@DavPul like I said, it's just my opinion and what I've gleaned from wasting all my time on the forums LOL As far as my comment specifically on cardio vs weights, that's just normally what I see/hear...especially for women. And my comment on lifting giving a pretty appealing muscle structure...again, just my opinion and personal preference I guess, but most of the woman I see in the actual gym and on here that say they lift weights look pretty darn good. The women that I've know that just do cardio, *most* of them end up either skinny fat, or just plain skinny with hardly any curves. Again, I could be way out in left field, but these have just been my observations.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »Strength = number of muscle fibers x control signal being pumped to them.
So you can get pretty big and have ppl somewhat smaller than you outlifting you if they have a better trained CNS. But at the same time, your CNS can only pump out so much juice and make so many connections; at some point, you just have to add more muscle fiber to get stronger, aka hypertrophy.
So do some strength work, and some hypertrophy work. I rotate days; It keeps it interesting and busts up plateaus before they happen.
Ahh okay I understand now I will give that a go make it a 2016 plan lol I just want to see how much strength I can gain doing 5x5 just a little longer I'm going to be going up to maintenace I'm
Not sure if eating at maintenance instead of a deficit would give me more strength? That's not why I'm going into maintenace btw it's simply because I don't want to drop anymore weight
erm....not entirely sure how to answer. If you aren't in a calorie surplus, the vast majority of the strength increases you experience will be from improved CNS connection since your body doesn't really have any extra energy left over to synthesize new muscle fiber. Eating more calories won't make you stronger, per se, progressive overload and a strong drive to hit an extra rep on every set will.
Okay well I'm gonna sit at maintenance and see if I can drop some body fat I think I only need to drop 2/3% to be totally happy and then maybe bulk this time next year. I would do it sooner but as mentioned someone had advised to wait at least a year before bulking as I'm not advanced enough as a lifter to be bulking .. Well I make sure to add weight when I can which seems to be okay just now but if I start to struggle what would I do? Thanks for answering btw0 -
I use the SL5x5 compound lifts as a basis for my workouts and focus on strength but I've added hypertrophy accessory lifts (4 sets of 15 reps for each accessory move). I've been pretty happy with the results. My muscles are getting bigger and more defined since adding hypertrophy work but the strength increases from my compound lifts make me continue to want to come back and make me feel really good with what I'm accomplishing.
That's pretty cool! So you have split days then? And your hypertrophy work the weight does it just stay the same all the time?
Thanks!
Yeah I set my workouts up as follows:
1. Chest - w/ bench & squats
2. Back - w/ deadlifts and rows
3. Arms - w/ squats
4. Shoulders - w/ deadlifts & OHP
5. Legs - w/ squats
So, I don't do OHP, Bench, and rows as much as SL5x5 would do but it's working for me so I'm happy. All compounds are 5x5 and I change weights on my 4x15 hypertrophy workouts as needed. The goal is to just be able to handle 15 reps in each set. I also usually change those moves every 6-8 weeks.
That looks good you do a lot of squats I enjoy squats aswell it's my fave thing to do 0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »Strength = number of muscle fibers x control signal being pumped to them.
So you can get pretty big and have ppl somewhat smaller than you outlifting you if they have a better trained CNS. But at the same time, your CNS can only pump out so much juice and make so many connections; at some point, you just have to add more muscle fiber to get stronger, aka hypertrophy.
So do some strength work, and some hypertrophy work. I rotate days; It keeps it interesting and busts up plateaus before they happen.
Ahh okay I understand now I will give that a go make it a 2016 plan lol I just want to see how much strength I can gain doing 5x5 just a little longer I'm going to be going up to maintenace I'm
Not sure if eating at maintenance instead of a deficit would give me more strength? That's not why I'm going into maintenace btw it's simply because I don't want to drop anymore weight
erm....not entirely sure how to answer. If you aren't in a calorie surplus, the vast majority of the strength increases you experience will be from improved CNS connection since your body doesn't really have any extra energy left over to synthesize new muscle fiber. Eating more calories won't make you stronger, per se, progressive overload and a strong drive to hit an extra rep on every set will.
Okay well I'm gonna sit at maintenance and see if I can drop some body fat I think I only need to drop 2/3% to be totally happy and then maybe bulk this time next year. I would do it sooner but as mentioned someone had advised to wait at least a year before bulking as I'm not advanced enough as a lifter to be bulking .. Well I make sure to add weight when I can which seems to be okay just now but if I start to struggle what would I do? Thanks for answering btw
Who told you this? I mean, I don't think you should bulk right away when just starting to lift but I don't think you'd have to wait a year either. I was only lifting maybe 4 months before I started my bulk (mind you, not really by choice I was too small to recomp)0 -
That looks good you do a lot of squats I enjoy squats aswell it's my fave thing to do
Me too!0
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