Personal Trainer & Weight Management Certified here to help!
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Actually you were just asked how many calories one should eat based on TDEE and you provided the basic broscience that just about every fitness trainer echoes. Which usually means that your knowledge of nutrition is pretty limited.asimmons26 wrote: »Just adding to my earlier post. At the beginning of this, I was asked about losing weight and suggesting how to get there. If anyone wants to eat empty calories or not make the most of what they consume then that's their prerogative. My suggestions are healthy choices which are much more beneficial to the body. Your body needs nutrients to feel satisfied and without nutrients you over eat bc your body still hasn't received what it needs.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Anecdotes aren't evidence. And googling something doesn't prove it. There's lots of articles written by "gurus" of exercise that have no background in nutrition or physiology. Peer reviewed clinical studies provide more accurate information. And a calorie is a calorie. No Journal of Science will dispute that.asimmons26 wrote: »Back to the calories are not equal. This is very simple. You eat 100 calories of French fries and I will eat 100 calories of veggies. Then let's see who has more energy. You can google not all calories are equal and find a ton of information backing this. The information I gave as to not all calories being equal was just a very quick statement without going into complex digestion and energy process of different foods. Your energy level has everything to do with how your lose weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It's stuff like this that makes me so wary of personal trainers and the advice they have to offer. I know there are some great ones out there, but there are also people telling their clients to avoid "white foods" or only eat bread on special occasions.0
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Wait so eating fast food is harmful? You do realize that many of the most elite athletes in the world eat fast food to help meet their calorie needs?asimmons26 wrote: »Often referred to as an empty calorie are foods high in calories but very lacking in nutritional value, like fast food. If the harm to your body outweighs the benefits by a long shot then it's what is known as an empty calorie. You can be at a "healthy weight" but have high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol,etc bc of the foods in which you choose to consume. Again, backing my statement that calories are not created equal. Have you heard of skinny fat? This is a person who eats within calorie range but not the right foods. This person is not actually healthy and their body fat percentage is of an unhealthy range. I see it all day at the gym training and taking body fat analysts.
And please be respectful when describing people at healthy weights who may have diabetes, high blood, pressure and high cholesterol because guess what.............it could be genetic. That's not something that's in their control. Unless you KNOW it's because of food consumption, you can't make that assumption.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Why are people bitching the original poster? Like a bloody kids school ground.-1
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SarahxCheesecake wrote: »Why are people bitching the original poster? Like a bloody kids school ground.
Instead of trying to create metadrama, perhaps you could explain why you think OP's advice is good?0 -
asimmons26 wrote: »Back to the calories are not equal. This is very simple. You eat 100 calories of French fries and I will eat 100 calories of veggies. Then let's see who has more energy. You can google not all calories are equal and find a ton of information backing this. The information I gave as to not all calories being equal was just a very quick statement without going into complex digestion and energy process of different foods. Your energy level has everything to do with how your lose weight.
You are making claims that I am sure you believe to be true. You seem to honestly want to help. The problem is that you absolutely do not HAVE to eat clean to lose weight. If I eat 100 calories of vegetables with no protein or fats, I will be hungry again with no energy in half an hour and be eating again. If I eat a cup of pasta, I will stay full for a few hours; a cup of broccoli, half an hour tops. That's the way my body works. Not everyone fits your perfect scenario mold where they can simply change their eating habits overnight and have miraculous results. The reality is each person has to find a balance that works for them. When they follow a diet that allows no comfort foods, they won't be able to sustain it over the long term and will usually gain the weight back. It's better to learn portion control and how to fit the foods you love into an overall healthy diet so that it is sustainable for life, not just a few months. All calories are created equal...just like all pounds are created equal. Butter is not the enemy.0 -
I hate to see butter unfairly maligned. It does not contain trans fat, unsalted butter is usually available right beside salted butter if sodium is a concern, and gram for gram or tablespoon for tablespoon it has fewer calories than olive oil because of the water content.0
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asimmons26 wrote: »Often referred to as an empty calorie are foods high in calories but very lacking in nutritional value, like fast food. If the harm to your body outweighs the benefits by a long shot then it's what is known as an empty calorie. You can be at a "healthy weight" but have high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol,etc bc of the foods in which you choose to consume. Again, backing my statement that calories are not created equal. Have you heard of skinny fat? This is a person who eats within calorie range but not the right foods. This person is not actually healthy and their body fat percentage is of an unhealthy range. I see it all day at the gym training and taking body fat analysts.
Eating clean does not prevent you from being skinny fat, just like eating "bad/junk" food does not cause someone to be skinny fat. For reference:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10209109/post-clean-eating-before-and-after-pictures0 -
asimmons26 wrote: »No, a calorie is not created equal. Your body treats the foods you eat differently. A protein burns slower than a carb. This is because it takes 20% to 30% more energy to burn that calorie. Energy in is just as complex as energy out. You can look it up if you would like.
BMR is not temperature neutral. For every 0.5 degree celsius increase in internal body temperature, the BMR increases approximately 7%. Physical activity significantly increases body temper
Refined carbs are usually something that people easily over eat. This would be your whites (pasta, white bread, etc). The reason is because the body absorbs these simple sugars relatively quickly and a few hours later you are hungry again. The body increases blood sugar, triggers a release of insulin and you eat again. It is MUCH better to get your carbs from fruit, veggies, legumes. These carbs are higher in volume and tends to be more filling.
Butter is another additive people use too much of. While it has fats (trans fat) it is also high in cholesterol. Most butter people consume is also loaded with sodium and induces the need for more. Olive oil is a better alternative since while it still has fats, it actually has additional benefits including lowering ldl and triglycerides, it is rich in antioxidants, especially vitamin e. The fats in olive oil are monounsaturated which doesn't oxidize in the body and its lower in polyunsaturated fat which does oxidize in the body. It also reduces blood pressure. So....why use butter when you can get actual health benefits from olive oil?
Your metabolic burn increases. BMR is defined as at neutral temperature. Your statement is like saying lines aren't straight when you bend them. Of course, because it is no longer a line! If you measure calorie burn in a non neutral temperature, you no longer measure BMR!
Also, dietary cholesterol isn't an issue for most people. Some seem to have a gene where dietary cholesterol impacts body cholesterol but it is rare. Calorie restriction tends trump other factors anyway, so it is doubly unnecessary when losing weight.
The energy expenditure to break down protein is already accounted for in dietary calorie count - purely burning protein produces around 5.7 kcal /g in energy.0 -
I hate to see butter unfairly maligned. It does not contain trans fat, unsalted butter is usually available right beside salted butter if sodium is a concern, and gram for gram or tablespoon for tablespoon it has fewer calories than olive oil because of the water content.
I don't eat butter myself (for reasons that aren't related to health), but my husband does. He and I have noticed that it really seems to contribute to his satiety more than an equivalent amount of olive oil. As he's trying to add more vegetables to his diet, the flavor and satiety butter contributes has been absolutely key.
Not to say this would work for everyone, but I don't see why someone trying to lose weight would have to avoid it. It's just fat, which is something that we all need.0 -
Anecdotes aren't evidence. And googling something doesn't prove it. There's lots of articles written by "gurus" of exercise that have no background in nutrition or physiology. Peer reviewed clinical studies provide more accurate information. And a calorie is a calorie. No Journal of Science will dispute that.asimmons26 wrote: »Back to the calories are not equal. This is very simple. You eat 100 calories of French fries and I will eat 100 calories of veggies. Then let's see who has more energy. You can google not all calories are equal and find a ton of information backing this. The information I gave as to not all calories being equal was just a very quick statement without going into complex digestion and energy process of different foods. Your energy level has everything to do with how your lose weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wrong. Scientists challenge fixed ideas and evaluates evidence from a variety of possible positions. The term "a calorie is not a calorie" has no syllogistic sense if the statement is only a negation of "all X are not X." It is intended in the sense that foodstuff contains energy and quality of food matters to diet ( for example - a deficit diet with 90% protein will have different mood and satiny effects than the same deficit with 10% protein) or health (for example - a 2000 calorie diet rich in packaged meats vs a 2000 calorie diet with limited packaged meats might have different health outcomes). The OP just uses a poorly structured phrase, a sound bite, to express this and then defends herself even more poorly. One would expect by now that people her would understand this.
As to scientific journals that express this? Oh look:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26303602
http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v11/n10/full/nrendo.2015.144.html
Anecdotal evidence IS evidence but not highly valued.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »asimmons26 wrote: »Back to the calories are not equal. This is very simple. You eat 100 calories of French fries and I will eat 100 calories of veggies. Then let's see who has more energy. You can google not all calories are equal and find a ton of information backing this. The information I gave as to not all calories being equal was just a very quick statement without going into complex digestion and energy process of different foods. Your energy level has everything to do with how your lose weight.
You are making claims that I am sure you believe to be true. You seem to honestly want to help. The problem is that you absolutely do not HAVE to eat clean to lose weight. If I eat 100 calories of vegetables with no protein or fats, I will be hungry again with no energy in half an hour and be eating again. If I eat a cup of pasta, I will stay full for a few hours; a cup of broccoli, half an hour tops. That's the way my body works. Not everyone fits your perfect scenario mold where they can simply change their eating habits overnight and have miraculous results. The reality is each person has to find a balance that works for them. When they follow a diet that allows no comfort foods, they won't be able to sustain it over the long term and will usually gain the weight back. It's better to learn portion control and how to fit the foods you love into an overall healthy diet so that it is sustainable for life, not just a few months. All calories are created equal...just like all pounds are created equal. Butter is not the enemy.
Some very good points right there. Its about what works for you and getting a balance and still being able to enjoy life0 -
So you're saying eating fructose doesn't raise insulin? Or consuming protein doesn't either? If so, you're not well versed in nutrition.Refined carbs are usually something that people easily over eat. This would be your whites (pasta, white bread, etc). The reason is because the body absorbs these simple sugars relatively quickly and a few hours later you are hungry again. The body increases blood sugar, triggers a release of insulin and you eat again. It is MUCH better to get your carbs from fruit, veggies, legumes. These carbs are higher in volume and tends to be more filling.
See this is what drives me to consider leaving this place - as a mod, one would think you'd take some responsibility for explaining things properly and not just scoring points.
She happens to be partially right. Refined carbs, along with other calorie rich food, ARE something people easily tend to overeat. The reasoning is a bit off, the hunger, satiety process is related to absorption but more so to insulin overshoot - while fruit and proteins both raise blood sugar - insulin overshoot is likelier when sugars are highly available for cell absorption and lipogenesis. Post rebound hunger is certainly a documented phenomenon.
However, it isn't a reason to stop eating "white foods" - just suggests that meals should be mixed. Or understanding that rapid glucose availability might be a good strategy for feeding during exercise, etc...
And it IS usually better to assure your diet mixes in fruit, veggies, legumes. I hope you aren't opposed to that.0 -
Hi,
Welcome to these forums, hope you stick around. Don't be put off by all the 'a calorie is a calorie' pedants - I do agree with them in principal, but I'm happy to listen to all views on the best balance of macros, low/high GI, and meal timings for optimum comfort in a calorie deficit. What does wind me up is reading posts from people claiming you HAVE to give up a certain food in order to lose ANY weight - poor old bread and cereals are often the brunt of this BS accusation.0 -
asimmons26 wrote: »No, a calorie is not created equal. Your body treats the foods you eat differently. A protein burns slower than a carb. This is because it takes 20% to 30% more energy to burn that calorie. Energy in is just as complex as energy out. You can look it up if you would like.
BMR is not temperature neutral. For every 0.5 degree celsius increase in internal body temperature, the BMR increases approximately 7%. Physical activity significantly increases body temper
Refined carbs are usually something that people easily over eat. This would be your whites (pasta, white bread, etc). The reason is because the body absorbs these simple sugars relatively quickly and a few hours later you are hungry again. The body increases blood sugar, triggers a release of insulin and you eat again. It is MUCH better to get your carbs from fruit, veggies, legumes. These carbs are higher in volume and tends to be more filling.
Butter is another additive people use too much of. While it has fats (trans fat) it is also high in cholesterol. Most butter people consume is also loaded with sodium and induces the need for more. Olive oil is a better alternative since while it still has fats, it actually has additional benefits including lowering ldl and triglycerides, it is rich in antioxidants, especially vitamin e. The fats in olive oil are monounsaturated which doesn't oxidize in the body and its lower in polyunsaturated fat which does oxidize in the body. It also reduces blood pressure. So....why use butter when you can get actual health benefits from olive oil?
Your metabolic burn increases. BMR is defined as at neutral temperature. Your statement is like saying lines aren't straight when you bend them. Of course, because it is no longer a line! If you measure calorie burn in a non neutral temperature, you no longer measure BMR!
Also, dietary cholesterol isn't an issue for most people. Some seem to have a gene where dietary cholesterol impacts body cholesterol but it is rare. Calorie restriction tends trump other factors anyway, so it is doubly unnecessary when losing weight.
The energy expenditure to break down protein is already accounted for in dietary calorie count - purely burning protein produces around 5.7 kcal /g in energy.
Euclidean geometry is so 2000-late.0 -
I stand corrected. Without disputes in science, there wouldn't be study and observations. Reacting to the "calorie is not a calorie" phrase, I could have been more concise and less absolute.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Anecdotes aren't evidence. And googling something doesn't prove it. There's lots of articles written by "gurus" of exercise that have no background in nutrition or physiology. Peer reviewed clinical studies provide more accurate information. And a calorie is a calorie. No Journal of Science will dispute that.asimmons26 wrote: »Back to the calories are not equal. This is very simple. You eat 100 calories of French fries and I will eat 100 calories of veggies. Then let's see who has more energy. You can google not all calories are equal and find a ton of information backing this. The information I gave as to not all calories being equal was just a very quick statement without going into complex digestion and energy process of different foods. Your energy level has everything to do with how your lose weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wrong. Scientists challenge fixed ideas and evaluates evidence from a variety of possible positions. The term "a calorie is not a calorie" has no syllogistic sense if the statement is only a negation of "all X are not X." It is intended in the sense that foodstuff contains energy and quality of food matters to diet ( for example - a deficit diet with 90% protein will have different mood and satiny effects than the same deficit with 10% protein) or health (for example - a 2000 calorie diet rich in packaged meats vs a 2000 calorie diet with limited packaged meats might have different health outcomes). The OP just uses a poorly structured phrase, a sound bite, to express this and then defends herself even more poorly. One would expect by now that people her would understand this.
As to scientific journals that express this? Oh look:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26303602
http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v11/n10/full/nrendo.2015.144.html
Anecdotal evidence IS evidence but not highly valued.
Generally speaking, anecdotes don't get value because they are hardly ever under a scientific setting, hence the reason I made the statement.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
asimmons26 wrote: »Often referred to as an empty calorie are foods high in calories but very lacking in nutritional value, like fast food. If the harm to your body outweighs the benefits by a long shot then it's what is known as an empty calorie. You can be at a "healthy weight" but have high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol,etc bc of the foods in which you choose to consume. Again, backing my statement that calories are not created equal. Have you heard of skinny fat? This is a person who eats within calorie range but not the right foods. This person is not actually healthy and their body fat percentage is of an unhealthy range. I see it all day at the gym training and taking body fat analysts.
Well, thanks for your opinion. Glad now that I didn't take time to read the whole post!0 -
Except none of the things you list are in any way in conflict with what the "pedants" say.hamlet1222 wrote: »Hi,
Welcome to these forums, hope you stick around. Don't be put off by all the 'a calorie is a calorie' pedants - I do agree with them in principal, but I'm happy to listen to all views on the best balance of macros, low/high GI, and meal timings for optimum comfort in a calorie deficit. What does wind me up is reading posts from people claiming you HAVE to give up a certain food in order to lose ANY weight - poor old bread and cereals are often the brunt of this BS accusation.0 -
lemonlionheart wrote: »asimmons26 wrote: »Often referred to as an empty calorie are foods high in calories but very lacking in nutritional value, like fast food. If the harm to your body outweighs the benefits by a long shot then it's what is known as an empty calorie. You can be at a "healthy weight" but have high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol,etc bc of the foods in which you choose to consume. Again, backing my statement that calories are not created equal. Have you heard of skinny fat? This is a person who eats within calorie range but not the right foods. This person is not actually healthy and their body fat percentage is of an unhealthy range. I see it all day at the gym training and taking body fat analysts.
I don't have any qualifications, but I was under the impression that 'skinny fat' was just when you have a relatively low weight but a high body fat percentage. Never heard it defined as anything to do with the 'right foods' or eating 'clean'.
You're correct but they often go together
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